Tow Vehicle Setup - requirements?

Hi all,

It's looking more and more like I will be joining your ranks early next year. Sorry for the long post - I've never owned an RV before, or a real TV for that matter. I've been researching the posts about GVWR, loaded vs. unloaded, ABC, 123, etc., and my head is spinning. Let me ask a few questions, to see if I can get my bearings:

1) I'm leaning towards a Ford F-250 ~6.0 diesel for a TV. I've seen them with a "Towing package" (only a receiver and heavier cooling) installed, or with a "Towing package" (receiver/heavier cooling/trans cooler/brake controller/air bags/etc.) installed. If I find one of the first ones, would it be heavy duty enough to pull an unloaded 9,150/loaded 11,900 lbs. fifth wheel? I know I would need a fifth wheel base installed, and a brake controller. Other than that, would it handle the load?

2) Regarding the "loaded" weight. I know you add in the optional equipment, propane, anything in the tanks, clothes, food, etc. I'm a single guy with minimal clothes angel: just enough), minimal food (drive-through, eat-in-the-truck aholic ), etc. I would plan to only travel with empty or nearly empty tanks. I'm having a hard time imagining how a 9,150 lb RV would ever weigh over 10,500 lbs (in my situation).

3) I know diesel engines are super-tough if maintained well. The trucks I've been finding in my price range (2002-2004) have around 75,000 miles. I know the engine should last several years at least. My concern would be everything else - suspension, drivetrain, body integrity, etc. I worry I would spend $xx on the truck up front, then have to spend $xxxxxx to have everything else fixed (just due to age - I know normal wear/tear is to be expected). Anyone with general experience in buying used diesels?

Thanks for any input. I've enjoyed learning about the RV life from you all - it's been a blessing.

First of all the F-250 is fine for a 12,000lb GVW 5er. I don't think the package with a built in brake control started till 2005. 6.0 motors were available in 2003 & 04 at 8800lb GVW 05 and up are 10,000lb GVW. 2002 was the 7.3 motor. I'm driving an 03 with 100,000mi on it. my o6 has 37,000mi and tow a BH 3370 no problem. 03 & 04 GVCW is about 20,400lb the 05 to 07 is about 23,000 GVCW. Hope this helps a little. JON

ky-newbie said:

Hi all,

It's looking more and more like I will be joining your ranks early next year. Sorry for the long post - I've never owned an RV before, or a real TV for that matter. I've been researching the posts about GVWR, loaded vs. unloaded, ABC, 123, etc., and my head is spinning. Let me ask a few questions, to see if I can get my bearings:

1) I'm leaning towards a Ford F-250 ~6.0 diesel for a TV. I've seen them with a "Towing package" (only a receiver and heavier cooling) installed, or with a "Towing package" (receiver/heavier cooling/trans cooler/brake controller/air bags/etc.) installed. If I find one of the first ones, would it be heavy duty enough to pull an unloaded 9,150/loaded 11,900 lbs. fifth wheel? I know I would need a fifth wheel base installed, and a brake controller. Other than that, would it handle the load?

2) Regarding the "loaded" weight. I know you add in the optional equipment, propane, anything in the tanks, clothes, food, etc. I'm a single guy with minimal clothes angel: just enough), minimal food (drive-through, eat-in-the-truck aholic ), etc. I would plan to only travel with empty or nearly empty tanks. I'm having a hard time imagining how a 9,150 lb RV would ever weigh over 10,500 lbs (in my situation).

3) I know diesel engines are super-tough if maintained well. The trucks I've been finding in my price range (2002-2004) have around 75,000 miles. I know the engine should last several years at least. My concern would be everything else - suspension, drivetrain, body integrity, etc. I worry I would spend $xx on the truck up front, then have to spend $xxxxxx to have everything else fixed (just due to age - I know normal wear/tear is to be expected). Anyone with general experience in buying used diesels?

Thanks for any input. I've enjoyed learning about the RV life from you all - it's been a blessing.

Click to expand...

Hello Ky-newbe.

I went with the truck in my sig because I think the 7.3 diesels have been a tryed and true motor that last a long time. I found my truck on Graigs list and flew to Conneticut and met the guy at the airport and drove it back to mi. I bought it for under 14,000 dollars. The new ones get worse milage and cost 50,000 dollars. You can put 4 brand new motors in my truck and just be at the 50,000 mark. Or 10 transmissions and still be at the 50,000 mark. If you can find a low milage 7.3 liter diesel 1999-2003 with a good body and someone who takes care of it you have found a gem.I like graigs list cause you can talk to the owner and get the lowdown on the truck. I had a 2002 reg cab one ton before I got this one and I knew what goes wrong with these( ball joints , pan rust, etc)
Good luck
Ron

If you can swing the Super Duty with the built in brake controller you will be very happy if you upgrade to a heavier Coach at some point. A well maintained Diesel engine should easily go 250K without a major overhaul. You may have injectors or an inner cooler that needs repaired but the Super Duty's are made to go at least 500K before even thinking about the salvage yard.

Have to agree that the 7.3 is tried and true as the post states. Having several of them as well as the newer ones we have had good luck with all. I would avoid the newer dual turbo and wait for the Scorpion if you want to spend big bucks. We actually do get better mileage with the 6.0 than the 7.3 or 6.4 however. Part of it is the Torque Lock tranny which gives you 6 effective gears with a 5 speed auto. Our older units have the 4 speed OD and the newer 7.3's have the 5 speed but not the torque lock. Good luck in your search.

I got 235000 out of our 99 F350 Ford Crew Cab. Never any major problems. Kept the oil changed, filters cleaned and changed when due. At 235000 the head gasket blew and 3 rod went before I could get it shutdown. At $13000 engine replacement bill and I decided to buy a new one instead. The 7.3 is a good engine. Now have a 6.4 with twin turbos and it is more powerful. Have the built in brake controller and love it. The new one is a dually and the other one was a single rear wheel. Love the dually and feel more stable with it. I got a 200000 mile drive train warranty (extended from Ford) on the new one. I you can find a used F450 with less than 50000 miles on it I would go for it. That way you are good to go with the TV when you upgrade the RV. IMHO

ky-newbie, since you said this will be your first rv and your first "real" tow vehicle i will give my opinions.

1st, Yes the 250 will tow the wieghts you posted.

2nd, A Deisel engine should be good for up to 500,000 miles if properly maintained. Yes if you run one that long there will be other things on the truck that will wear out and need attention no matter which truck you buy.

Now, my advice. Since these trucks are supposed to last so long, Do lots of research and know the pros and cons of what you are buying. There are lots of deisel engine forums online that will allow you to learn the good and bad of each make, model, and offering. There is alot to learn and alot to look for. Dodge has a great engine with the Cummins deisel. They have had other problems with their trucks at different times. GM has a proven engine with the Duramax (Isuzu) deisel. They have had problems with injectors and overheating in some model years. You were asking about a Ford F-250, so here are some things to think about.....

The 7.3 Navistar engine is a tried and true very reliable engine. It is getting hard to find these trucks that dont have alot of miles on them. If you can find one that has been taken care of it is probably your best option for a Ford.

The 6.0 Navistar engine has a little more power than the 7.3 but also has some design flaws. (Search for HPOP and EGR cooler on the deisel forums.) These issues can be repaired, but they cant be "fixed", there have never been design changes to the 6.0 to fix these problems. As long as you know about these issues and dont mind repairing the same problems multiple times the 6.0 will probably last you many years. Some owners claim they havent had problems with this engine, so maybe its luck of the draw?

The 6.4 twin turbo Navistar engine could, maybe be a great reliable engine. It usually takes a couple of years to find and start to work out the bugs in a new engine design. Since this engine will only be produced for 2 years only a few owners (in relative terms to all Ford owners) will have to work this out. 4 or 5 years from now will parts be readily available or overpriced if you have problems with a limited production engine?

The 2011 Scorpion deisel. Fords upcoming Ford built Deisel. I guees we will have to wait and see how this goes. This engine will have some radical departures from what we are used to seeing on Deisel engines. With the cost of R&D for a new engine platform i guess this engine will be around for more than a couple years whether its good or bad. Dont think I would consider buying one till maybe 2013 or 2014. I really hope they get it right.

I posted this because i am in the same market you are. Looking for another used Deisel pickup. (just because I want another one) I am also on the vehicle procurment panel at work. We buy several new deisels each year. I am not putting down or bashing any make, model or brand. Just giving you an opinion and some advice. Do ALOT of research since you are buying a vehicle you will most likely have for many years.

ky-newbie, There has been some good advice given in this thread and what I am going to say isn't directly answering your question. That said I think it an important point to consider.

I have friends and also talked to many people who have purchased trucks before they have decided on a coach. Many and I mean many have said to me "I sure wish that I decided on a coach first" because all to often they purchase a coach that turns out to be a little much for the Tow Vehicle.

Just a thought to consider. Good luck hunting for both TV and Coach and enjoy them both.

All the best,
Dan

Take a look at the 6.0 forum at ford-trucks.com While there are some that had no issues, the 6.0 was not one of the better engines Ford has put in a truck. Many buy backs and many more still having serious issues with that engine. I know there are those of you that will tell us how your 6.0 has been the best engine you ever bought...great for you, but the facts are that the 6.0 diesel F series is the most "bought back" truck ever produced. If you're towing under 13,000 I'd look hard at the 05 or newer Ford 6.8 V10 gas engine. 05 and newer have the 3 valve heads and the same drivetrain as the diesel. The V10 is a 300,000 mile engine even when used daily for work. It will get 8-10 MPG towing and 12-14 unloaded, but cost $3000 to $5500 less up front to purchase. Maintenance is less on a gasser when compared to a diesel (oil changes, fuel filters, etc) and repairs are typically about 30% less overall. I don't know what your budget is, but you can buy a nice 2007-2008 F250 4X4 V10 with 4.10 or 4.30 gears for around $20K.

I went through this 3 years ago when I bought a super duty. Bought an 05 V10 with 103K on the clock and have towed all over the US with it with no issues to speak of. 2 friends have bought them as well and both tow 33-37' trailers with great success. You can also buy an SCT tuner from a guy in SC (5 Star Tuning) which will be programmed with dyno tested tunes specific to the V10 and your needs. The SCT will unlock about 75 Lbs Ft of torque bringing the V10 to within 75 lbs ft of torque of the new 6.4 diesel.

KY, just get a Chebby with the Duramax/Allison. Only the very early "1" engine had injector problems. My 05 gets 10-12 towing 20760 GCVW and 18-20 with no load. Bob

Tow Rig

Second on the Chebby with the duramax. Had an '01 with some injector problems, all taken care of by GM Now have an '04.5 with second generation engine. Love it. Fuel mileage same as previous post. Good ride. Look around, you'll see the popularity of the Duramax.

Pickuphunt, yep yours has the "2" engine like mine. Has never been in the shop for any problems. The one thing I did change was the turbo intake tube. If you install the "06" type you will see a big difference in pulling power. Takes a little work, maybe an hour of time. If your interested, I will get you the part # and give you instructions. Pretty straight forward install. BTW, I dont think I have ever seen a broken Allison and I work at a Chebby dealer. Bob

I will weigh in again here since this has been brought up. The Duramax is definatly a proven design. Chevrolet (GM) has stepped up and fixed problems as they came up.(injectors and overheating problems) And extended the warranty on injectors. Cant ask for more than that. The Allison transmision cant be beat. You wont hurt that tranny unless you are going to do some heavy modifications to the engine to overpower the transmision.

There is one thing you need to know if you buy a "chebby" tho........
If you are going to use any type of programmer to boost the power you will probably void your warranty. GM has really started to crack down on ecm reflashes. When you go in for warranty work they will hook it up and check the history. Any evidence of a feflash or reprogram will get you a repair bill. I dont agree with it, but I understand why they are doing it. Some owners on the forums are dyno testing at 500 plus hp with just simple mods and reflashes.

Well, what can I say? You all came through again. Thanks for all the info!! I wasn't really set on a 6.0 - I knew I had come across a few "6.x" variations. If anyone's interested, here is one in my area that looks pretty good:

http://www.kingbrotherscars.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=105730423

I haven't had time to stop and get the engine size - I'll try to do that tomorrow. I've been researching the RV for over a year. I've got it narrowed down to a certain type/weight, within a couple of models. I've learned that matching the TV to the RV is really important.

Thanks again!

ky-newbie said:

Well, what can I say? You all came through again. Thanks for all the info!! I wasn't really set on a 6.0 - I knew I had come across a few "6.x" variations. If anyone's interested, here is one in my area that looks pretty good:

http://www.kingbrotherscars.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=105730423

I haven't had time to stop and get the engine size - I'll try to do that tomorrow. I've been researching the RV for over a year. I've got it narrowed down to a certain type/weight, within a couple of models. I've learned that matching the TV to the RV is really important.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

That's a 5.4 liter gasoline V8 and not a good choice to haul anything other than a super lightweight trailer....6000 pounds or less

Biggziff; not sure what truck your looking at ??? The green one in the link is an 02 F-250 Lariat SC with a 7.3 Diesel. JON

jnphobe said:

Biggziff; not sure what truck your looking at ??? The green one in the link is an 02 F-250 Lariat SC with a 7.3 Diesel. JON

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Weird....last night it was an 06 150 5.4 red!!! Link this AM brings up a green diesel.

Early 6.0 Ford engines did experience quite a few issues. Starting in 2005 most folks have been very happy. You still might loose and injector or an inner cooler when pushing 100K or so. With any Diesel purchase go for the extended warranty to cover you up to 200K. You wont be sorry no matter which one you choose. We have had good luck with the 7.3 and 6.0 but have had work done on both engines after 60K or so. Pushing over 200K on the 7.3 and still running strong. Over 100K on the 6.0 and fingers crossed.

I had an '94 Ford 7.3 IDI turbo (the year before the Powerstroke) and sold with 215,000 miles it was on a new trannsmission (before I bought it) and a injector pump @ 205,000. That IDI was insane fast off the line but would only spool up to 8-12 PSI. I now have an "06 with the 6.0 and it has a lot more power and is running good, but not nearly as fast of the line as the '94, but It might weigh a good deal more.

Early 6.0 problems were blown head gaskets, and injectors. The Egr cooler can be a problem as well. Ford sued Navistar over that engine, it was'nt the best but I know a few guys that have had no problems. Look on you tube under 7.3 vs. 6.0 powerstroke. It's quite interesting.