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arisce
07-15-2006, 08:24 AM
Here are some pictures of th eblowout.

jbeletti
07-15-2006, 09:00 AM
Bill and Karen,

Those pictures are horrific but speak volumes at the same time. In terms of the root cause of the tire explosion, what is the sense of all who have seen the carnage first hand?

Jim

Trap
07-15-2006, 09:51 AM
Ouch after seeing that kind of damage it sure makes me think about getting something like the Doran tire pressure monitor setup.:confused:

Trap

Wild Wind
07-15-2006, 09:56 AM
That awfull, what brand tires did you have, did they move your trailer yet, and has any one started repairs. I know Scott said they where on top it, Good Luck !

Wild Wind
07-15-2006, 10:39 AM
Trap, a tire pressure monitor might have help, but it is not a cuire all. Hand checking pressure helps make you get down there by the tire, and maybe you also visionally inspect the tires. After hauling horses for 20+years, you learn after one flat tire that you never want to be broken down with a trailer full of horses along the side of the road.
Also after twisting off an axle spindel earily on, you become very fussly about maintenane, checking wheel bearings, spring shackels, torquing wheel nuts, etc. During every stop a rest areas, etc., I inspect the tires and look things over. I feel the tires & wheels to see how hot they are
compared too each other. On my truck I use the best Michealin tires.
On our motor coach (bus), we had a whole center tread blow off a rear inside dual. When we pulled the tire off, it still had it recommened presure of 110#, but all the tire tread in the center was gone. My wife told me a tire was going to blow, I stopped several times before that to look and feel the tires, but could not find the problem.
Therefore tire pressure monitor can't tell you verything!

ct0218
07-15-2006, 01:56 PM
Bill, I hope you didn't have the same tire I have on my Mt. Rushmore--Trail America. Michelin XPS may be in the very near future for me.

jpmorgan37
07-15-2006, 01:56 PM
Wild Wind, I aggree with you 100% on the visual checks and physically touching the tires and hubs, checking torque etc. but I also believe that the tire pressure monitors can save you from disaster caused by a slow leak and when you a pulling a loaded 38 foot trailer and a tire comes apart, you are going to tear stuff up. If by spending $390 for the Doran Pressure Pro I save one flat tire, then to me, it is money well spent. JMHO.
John

jpmorgan37
07-15-2006, 01:59 PM
Clark, I'm still running the Trail Americas on my GC and (knock on wood) haven't had any problems and they are wearing well. I must have missed something. what kind of problems did you have with them?
John

dieselengineer
07-15-2006, 03:49 PM
I agree, the best money spent is on the best tires you can buy. Always check the tire at every stop. I have a thermo gun, at each stop I chech the tire temp and hub temp. If one is high as compaired to the others, I check into why. Also, check the wheel lugs. Very important! I replaced all four tires with only a few miles on them and I am glad I did.

jimtoo
07-15-2006, 06:43 PM
I agree preasure and checking is very important to a tire and it's life. But why should we have to spend money to replace tires that are put on by the manufacture at an early time to feel safe? If the manufacture would put a good quality tire to begin with, I don't think people would have these problems. The tires that are being put on these units are ST tires and only rated for a max of 65mph, that is not "turnpike speeds" by yesterdays or todays standards.

ct0218
07-15-2006, 07:02 PM
I haven't had any tire problems, and they only have about 1500 miles on them. I just do not want a blowout that will destroy everything within 3 or 4 feet of it. I'm not familiar with these tires, and they are LT not ST like some have.

jpmorgan37
07-15-2006, 09:19 PM
Thanks for the reply, Clark. I have between 8 and 9,000 miles on them now. So far, I've got no complaints. I've run Generals, Firestones, Goodyears and Michelins over the years and this is my first experience with a Chinese made tire on a Fifth Wheel Trailer, so I do watch them very closely. I'll keep the forum posted.
John

Trap
07-15-2006, 09:41 PM
Wildwind your right the tire pressure monitor does not replace inspecting your tires, and I have been there with flats and and a couple of green colts on a trailer, the colts were going to the trainers, not fun. The only advantage I can see of the tire pressure moniter is that you may avoid damage to your trailer if you can catch it in time.

Trap

ct0218
07-15-2006, 10:14 PM
I have never read anything negative about the Trail America tires, and they may be OK. It appears that Heartland is using different brands of tires, and apparently on the lighter fivers they are using ST ILO LT tires. Lots of negative reports on Mission tires, and even the Goodyear Marathons. I lost two Marathons about 150 miles apart several years ago. They were replaced with the next higher load rating, no problems after that. I don't like loading any tire to it's maximum rating but that is probably what often happens when the tire ratings match the GVWR of the fiver. I like a cushion, a little extra safety margin. If I start seeing posts about problems with these I will probably replace them. Would be nice to know how many Heartland has installed, and how many have failed.

Trap
07-16-2006, 10:40 AM
ct0218 that probably on of the bigggest problems with trailer tires is that to many manufactures run the lightest tire they can to save costs. I beleive that to be on both axles and tires. I have a hard time beleiving that the manufactures would not offer a choice of tires.

Trap

Wild Wind
07-16-2006, 01:20 PM
A theromo Gun is money well spent, I wish that I had one. How much is the kind that RV'ers could have, I also fool around with muscle cars, engines, trans, etc.?
As a interesting side light, it is not just Hartland RV taking advantage of us, it is The RV industry in general, every manufacture is in competion with each other, therefore they cut cost on things we don't see.
My son bought a new 2005 SunnyBrook trailer with the best Dexter Axels (which we though where excellent axles). We tried to torque wheel nuts on the unit to proper spec; and on the curb side, one of six stripped, the driverside, 4 of 6 stripped(all do to pretty, cheap Chinise studs & Chrome Nuts plus a factory worker that installed and torqued the nuts with a air impact wrench). Called dealer, they said, tough luck. Therefore we had to remove hub/brake drums to drivers' side, and found that bearings where not set right, they where also leaking grease, pulled the bearings, in both hubs, and the bearings where already shot, only 4,000 miles on trailer. The bearings where made in Romanea & China (a bearing set at RV Supply in Elkhartabout $7.00) at this time we replaced only the drivers side with Detroit/ Timkin Roller Bearings (cost $24.00 a set, good quality wheel studs & nuts $7.00 x 24 = $168.00(mechanics costs)). We reset all bearing/torque both sides, and used the best grease money can buy (we still need to intall new bearings need on pass side yet).
Now driverside runs about 50 degrees cooler then passener side (wish we had a heat gun).
Total whole sale costs of parts was $270.00, that will last for years & years with proper maintenace.

Which company will take the step to install the best running gear and tires and eat a $1000.00 in extra cost when they can get away with cheap crap. Does a Landmark cost more then a Bighorn, is it because it has the better running gear? I have been to many FMCA Rallies, etc. and sat in coaches and listened to people shop for a new RV; and not once have I heard a couple of unsupecting buyers comment on the coaches running gear, handling, etc., but you sure hear it if they don't like the color of the couch! When we do get our trailer we receive cheap, crapy couches & reclinners, I had to go and buy the good flexsteel reliners.

























































































4

Trap
07-16-2006, 02:30 PM
Well put Wilwind it's sad but only to true. The manufactures love to brag about the Quality of there RV's and cut corners where possible.

Trap

ct0218
07-16-2006, 07:56 PM
So many companies buy components from their normal sources which may have unknowingly switched to a cheaper part (ie bearings). It is really hard to go thru every part of one of these coaches to ferret out the garbage. I used to own a Sunnybrook about 6 or 7 years old and those bearings were made in the USA, on Dexter axles. It is getting so that a brand name means very little any more.

arisce
07-16-2006, 10:24 PM
Bill, I hope you didn't have the same tire I have on my Mt. Rushmore--Trail America. Michelin XPS may be in the very near future for me.
Sorry to dissappoint but I have Trail America tires. Nobody has given me a satisfactory reason why the tire blew. Someone suggested road debris but the part of highway where the incident happened was just paved. The road was smooth. I think the tire was defective but there is no way to prove this because the tire itself is ruined beyond recognition-see photo.We should report any tire incidents for our safety. Lippert had made some changes by moving the shocks inwards because the tire was rubbing. Of course there was mention of axle misalignment. Nobody wants to take the blame for any of this. My dealer is not very concerned. The BH is still being fixed waiting for parts. The dealer treated this as if it was a routine job. Needless to say that we do not share this casualness. In Quebec since 2005 the tire companies are no longer responsible for road hazards so I must pay for the replacement of the tire because the insurance company pay only the damages and not the caused,i-e, the tire. The tire costs 378.00$. If I could afford all new Michelins then I would certainly change the tires. The accident is costing me 650.00$. Not counting the increase in insurance.

ct0218
07-16-2006, 11:03 PM
Not good news. I looked at the price of the tire and about fainted-until I realized that's Canadian dollars. Not sure what that would be US, but it is a lot. Still would like to know the % of failures on these tires. If Heartland has put these on 300 to 400 fivers, times four, and only had a few failures then that is not too bad. If there have be 15 or 20 or more, then that is another story. Are you close to maximum weight? Just curious.

arisce
07-17-2006, 08:55 AM
Hi ct0218
I had the trailer weighed at a cat scales on my way down. The trailer axles were supporting 11,700# which is under the maximum of 14,000# because we have the two 7,000# axles,i-e, BH 3600RL. If you divide 11,700 by 4 tires then you get 2925 per tire. Our g rated tires are rated for 3750 which is way under by 825. By the way those are can $ which translate into 250.00 US. To replace all would be over a 1,000 US with tax and all-in Quebec we have a surtax on tires. I say all because they say you should not mix tires.

arisce
07-17-2006, 03:02 PM
Not good news. I looked at the price of the tire and about fainted-until I realized that's Canadian dollars. Not sure what that would be US, but it is a lot. Still would like to know the % of failures on these tires. If Heartland has put these on 300 to 400 fivers, times four, and only had a few failures then that is not too bad. If there have be 15 or 20 or more, then that is another story. Are you close to maximum weight? Just curious.
See above.

jjjelm
07-18-2006, 10:02 AM
As the owner of a new Big Horn I have been reading everything I can find on tires after this blowout story. Here is the best information I've found. Wonderful Wyoming

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.dos

jbeletti
07-18-2006, 10:27 AM
jjjelm,

Good find at Discount Tire (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.dos). Thanks for sharing. Of course, because it's on the web does not make it 100% fact but I read through it all and it seems plausible to me. I will take a risk and post it here. Perhaps others, more knowledgeable can weigh in on this document's accuracy as well as its applicability to other brands (this is for Carlisle) of trailer specific tires. Bear in mind, this excerpt is from a company that benefits from tire sales so their replacement intervals may seem a bit short to some of us.

Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trailer Tire Facts (from Discount Tire website)

Trailer Tire Applications
• Trailer tires are designed for use on trailer axle positions only, not for the loads applied to or the traction required by drive or steering axles.

• An "LT" designation on a trailer tire size specifies load range only. It is not designed for use on light trucks.

• Do not mount "ST" or "LT" trailer tires on passenger cars or light trucks.
Inflation

• Always inflate trailer tires to the maximum inflation indicated on the sidewall.

• Check inflation when the tires are cool and have not been exposed to the sun.

• If the tires are hot to the touch from operation, add 3 psi to the max inflation.

• Underinflation is the number 1 cause of trailer tire failure.
Load Carrying Capacity

• All tires must be identical in size for the tires to properly manage the weight of the trailer.

• The combined capacity of the tires must equal or exceed the GVW of the axle.

• The combined capacity of all of the tires should exceed the loaded trailer weight by 20 percent.

• If the actual weight is not available, use the trailer GVW. If a tire fails on a tandem axle trailer, you should replace both tires on that side. The remaining tire was likely subjected to excessive loading.

• If the tires are replaced with tires of larger diameter, the tongue height may need to be adjusted to maintain proper weight distribution.
Speed

• All "ST" tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.

• As heat builds up, the tire's structure starts to disintegrate and weaken.

• The load carrying capacity gradually decreases as the heat and stresses generated by higher speed increases.

Time
• Time and the elements weaken a trailer tire.

• In about 3 years roughly one third of the tire's strength is gone.

• Three to five years is the projected life of a normal trailer tire.

• It is suggested that trailer tires be replaced after 3 to 4 years of service regardless of tread depth or tire appearance.

Mileage
• Trailer tires are not designed to wear out.

• The life of a trailer tire is limited by time and duty cycles.

• The mileage expectation of a trailer tire would be 5,000 to 12,000 miles.

Why Use An "ST" Tire
• "ST" tires feature materials and construction to meet the higher load requirements and demands of trailering.

• The polyester cords are bigger than they would be for a comparable "P" or "LT" tire.

• The steel cords have a larger diameter and greater tensile strength to meet the additional load requirements.

• "ST" tire rubber compounds contain more chemicals to resist weather and ozone cracking.

Storage
• The ideal storage is in a cool, dark garage at maximum inflation.

• Use tire covers to protect the tires from direct sunlight.

• Use thin plywood sections between the tire and the pavement.

• For long term storage: Put the trailer on blocks to take the weight off the tires, lower the air pressure and cover tires to protect from direct sunlight.

Maintenance
• Clean the tires using mild soap and water.

• Do not use tire-care products containing alcohol or petroleum distillates.

• Inspect for any cuts, snags, bulges or punctures.

• Check the inflation before towing and again before the return trip.

Three Keys to Avoiding Trouble
1. Make sure your rig is equipped with the proper tires.
2. Maintain the tires meticulously.
3. Replace trailer tires every three to five years, whether they look like they're worn out or not.

arisce
07-18-2006, 11:32 AM
Thanks all and Jim in particular
For your concern. As you know we have had a string of bad luck with our unit. I must say that we still like the unit despite all that has happened. We will be at the rally next year come **** or highwater. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we would not miss it for the world. We met wonderful people and made some friends. Karen has volunteered for the food committee and enjoying every minute. As for me the events were disheartening but that was overshadowed when my Dad fell and was hospitalized. He nearly died but like the trooper that he is he pulled through. I swear they do not make them like that anymore. Anyway I did not post these pictures to scare people but to inform. I think we all benefit when something happens to inform people on the conditions. If it can save just one of us from these events then it is worth it. There are some that have a vast knowledge of camping and I always learn from them. Once again thanks!

BTW, my Dad is now out of the hospital and recuperating in a nursing home. I saw him yesterday and he looks stonger. He is 91 and still full of life and a great sense of humour. He claims that he did not die because the devil is not ready for him. He is an inspiring man.

elwaller39
07-18-2006, 03:14 PM
Arisce, Sorry to hear about your Dad, I am glad to hear that he is doing much better now. My Dad past away in 1965 and I was only 24 years old and my Grandpapast away long before I was born. So I had to learn alot of things on my own. I am so glad you can enjoy your father this long, you just do not know how important that is to your family!! Evans & Lana

Trap
07-18-2006, 03:58 PM
Arisce I can relate to you about your father, mine took a tumble down a set of stairs last wednesday night, fortunately for him and us, other than a couple of cuts on his leg he was only scraped and bruised. At 86 he's still pretty wiry and tough. It didn't slow him down to much. It put a good scare into us though as he still wants to be on his own and take care of himself.

All the best Trap

arisce
07-23-2006, 08:56 AM
As I write our unit is still at the dealer for repairs due to the blowout. If anyone is wondering it has been there since June 12. I phoned on Friday and the latest is that they sent (Heartland) the wrong size mag wheel. I don't know who to believe. I just want our unit back. The guarantee is up next month. Sure would like to use it before the guarantee expires. That's life.

P.S. My Dad continues to get stronger. He will be ready to return in a few weeks.

arisce
07-24-2006, 08:21 AM
jpmorgan37 suggested that we e-mail Scott for an extension on the guarantee. Karen will do this. She is on a committee and she has business to do with Scott. My father is doing well but he will not be home soon. We might have to sell the condo. Although he is getting stronger the Doctor thinks that he can't live alone anymore. Another fall would be fatal.

P.S. John thanks for all the advice. We will be asking for #411 again. Hope you will be our neighbour again.

sonnybeech
08-01-2006, 06:26 PM
Thanks all and Jim in particular
For your concern. As you know we have had a string of bad luck with our unit. I must say that we still like the unit despite all that has happened. We will be at the rally next year come **** or highwater. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we would not miss it for the world. We met wonderful people and made some friends. Karen has volunteered for the food committee and enjoying every minute. As for me the events were disheartening but that was overshadowed when my Dad fell and was hospitalized. He nearly died but like the trooper that he is he pulled through. I swear they do not make them like that anymore. Anyway I did not post these pictures to scare people but to inform. I think we all benefit when something happens to inform people on the conditions. If it can save just one of us from these events then it is worth it. There are some that have a vast knowledge of camping and I always learn from them. Once again thanks!

BTW, my Dad is now out of the hospital and recuperating in a nursing home. I saw him yesterday and he looks stonger. He is 91 and still full of life and a great sense of humour. He claims that he did not die because the devil is not ready for him. He is an inspiring man.


Ouch after seeing that kind of damage to the undercarriage and the tire exploding !
It sure makes me take a second look at what tires are on my coach. I did some researches on googles and etc, on Mission tires and this is what I found from different forum for everyone’s info
Mission Tires any info out there
Coast to Coast open forum web site:
http://www.coastresorts.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15661212/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm (http://www.coastresorts.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15661212/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm)
RV.net web site: Mission tires..... Defective ? ?
http://www.rv.net/forum/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15946727.cfm (http://www.rv.net/forum/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15946727.cfm)
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17975396.cfm (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17975396.cfm)
Woodalls open forum: Mission Tires Blowout

http://www.woodalls.com/forums/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15833870.cfm (http://www.woodalls.com/forums/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15833870.cfm)

dieselengineer
08-01-2006, 08:33 PM
I said this before, There is a lot of force on the running gear of our coaches. The wheel lugs, every low speed turn there are very large side loads that can shear the studs that are not correctly torque to spec. Also, large side wall forces on the tires can damage the cords and you will not know it. Say sometime we hit potholes, jump curbs, I know we all try not to but it happens. Then on top of that, the ST type are only rated for 65 mph. It goes without saying, the tires are cheap compared to the damage they can cause!

Uncle Rog
08-28-2006, 10:51 AM
We had a blow out 8/24 out side of Lodi, we were lucky, the tire did shred but it did not tear the body OR the wiring harness for the slide. The dilemma now is that the spare I replaced is not rated for the weight. The load range on the installed tires are G, the plate calls for an E range, which does not seem right.

Uncle Rog
08-28-2006, 01:24 PM
Has anyone found a source for the G rated tires? I buy truck tires at work and thought it would be easy to find them, not so.........

jbeletti
08-28-2006, 02:58 PM
Uncle Rog,

Only one I found was Goodyear Unisteel G614 RST. For my Landmark, I used LT 235/85-R16 G. Ordered mine at Sears Auto.

Jim

Uncle Rog
08-28-2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks Jim, do you really think it matters if you run mixed tires? Some say yes, some say no. I hate to buy more than I need, but I do plan on adding a 2nd spare after this last road trip. Maybe running like pairs on the same axle?

Uncle Rog
08-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Jim, I found a Trail America distributor 30 miles from my house by contacting them by e mail, they are a wholesaler who sells the public. They even do axles and large stuff too. Global Direct Components in Temecula Ca, 800-282-2801. Maybe they have branches around the country?

Phil Smith
09-04-2006, 05:32 PM
Bill and Karen,

I am now in the same boat as you. This afternoon on our way home from a State Park in SC we blew the left rear tire. Looks to be tread separation. I had checked the tire pressure before starting out and was right on the money. I have even resorted to buying a pyrometer to monitor tire temperatures. We had only traveled 46 miles when the tire blew. The sheetmetal on the living room slide is all torn up as well as the wheel opening/fender flair. We called Goods Sams ERS but they were quoting a 3 hour wait time for assistance along side the interstate. SCDOT rescue truck stopped by, was able to inflate the spare tire the DEALER just put under it just two weeks ago and jack up the trailer and get it changed. Looks like we will be more weeks in the shop for repair. (Just got it out last week after 5 weeks) I am working on pics.

Phil

arisce
09-04-2006, 08:31 PM
Hi Phil Smith,
Certainly understand your situation. It is not pleasant. We were doing about 45 when the tire blew. The noise was loud. I was never told what caused the blowout. Had several people speculate but none of them struck me as plausible. I guess we will never know. I did phone Trail America but they wanted the tire for analysis before they said anything. I told them that the tire was all over highway 69 in Michigan. They said that I should have sent them the pieces. Asked him if I have another blowout and I send pieces will they do anything. He said that they could not analyse pieces. At this point I gave up and said that I would deal with another tire maker and wished him a good day. Keep us posted.

arisce
09-04-2006, 08:51 PM
Phil I forgot to mention that in the BH general area, BH-ask the factory, the thread under tires there is a good discussion on this situation started by dieselengineer. See #23 and 24 post for conditions. Good luck!

Phil Smith
09-05-2006, 04:10 PM
It looks like everything will evantually work out. I contacted the US office for Kenda Tire. I will have to get estimates on the camper repair and they will pay for the repairs. As for the tires, there have been a number of problems with the Kenda Klever A/P LT235/85/R16 Load Range E 80 PSI tires. They are going to replace all 5 tires. I will be able to buy the tires, make and dealer of my choice and they will reimburse at up to $110/tire (tread depth to determine actual reimbursement).

So far, they are VERY easy to work with. For those out there with this same tire, I would recommend a phone call to Roger Ansel of Kenda USA to see if it would be in your best intrest to get them changed before tire failure occurs. The phone number is 800-225-4714 x231. Be prepared with the full DOT code from your tires.

As for me, I am considering the Michelin XPS Rib. It will cost me some out of pocket money but if I can avoid more tire failure it will be worth the peace of mind.

Phil

Gary F
09-05-2006, 07:33 PM
Phil,

What are your tire DOT #'s and did Kendra give you a range on the effected units ?

Mine are 7Y9J ANA. Curious if i should call.


Thanks

Phil Smith
09-05-2006, 09:00 PM
Gary,

It looks like you may be a prime candidate if you are the same size. They indicated that the Kenda Klever LT235/85/R16 were experiencing some problems whereas the LT235/80/R16 were not. The DOT code on the tire that failed was 7Y9J ANB and date code of 0205. I would give them a call. It sure beats having to have body work and whatever other damage may occur during the tread separation.

Phil

Gary F
09-06-2006, 04:56 AM
Thanks Phil - I will call Kendra.

I indicated the wrong tire code in my previous post. I have ANB's on my trailer not ANA's

civey
08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
The Trail America tires are CRAP. Three blowouts in three separate events over 5 days and major damage to my trailer. The trailer is 3 years old with 18,000 km on the tires. Yes, the airpressure was checked before the trip, after the first blowout and before and after the second blowout. We are truck drivers and DO OUR CIRCLE CHECKS, including air pressure, tread inspection, tire cracking, cupping, etc. Six ply LT tires should not be going on these trailers PERIOD.