Freedom of speech

Hello to everyone,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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I have been experiencing multiple problems with my 3370RL. I have had a complete set of leaf springs sever while driving down the highway, 2 blow outs causing thousands of dollars in damage and about 4-5 months ago both sides of the king pin where the sidewalls are attached, the metal tore about 4 inches on both sides. After about 3 months, of Heatland and Lippert pointing fingers at each other, Lippert indicated that Heartland failed to attach the sidewalls to the frame correctly causing the damage (which I have to documentation). Heartland finally agreed to pay the 3,500 dollars to fix the problem. A few weeks after receiving my rig back, I noticed the front cap molding was shifting about an inch every time I placed it on my truck. I took it back to the shop, where it was discovered the vertical support adjacent to the bedroom slide completely tore away from the frame. The shop determined it a continuation from the sidewall not being attached correctly. The cost for the repaid is around 4,500 dollars. Heartland at first said "no" to fixing the problem, then recanted their "no" to we are looking into it. Since that time, I have posted a few posts about my problems and to my amazement; other Heartland owners have had similar problems. About a week ago I responded to a post about someone who was not sure if they wanted to by a Heartland product. I responded, "I wouldn't but from Heartland if I was you." And as a result of me making that statement, I received an email from Jim asking me to refrain from making statements like that. Today, 12/1/09, at 0920 hours, I received a phone call from a warranty representative telling me because what I posted, Heartland is not willing to fix my trailer. I immediately contacted the RV shop who has been working with Heartland about fixing my trailer and informed them of my phone call and asked them if Heartland had contacted them. To my surprise, Heartland did not contact the them, they called me directly. So much for freedom of speech. After paying over 45000 dollars for a trailer, you would expect that the trailer wouldn't fall apart. I paid the first time for a good trailer; know Heatland wants me to pay to fix the problem in which I have already paid for. I am shocked that Heartland would take this approach and be mad because I stated, "I wouldn’t buy from Heartland." I stand by my statement and will have to seek other alternatives to hold Heartland accountable for poor craftsmanship. Be aware about talking on this forum, Heartland will retaliate against you for speaking your mind. <o:p> </o:p>
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Randy Blackwell<o:p></o:p>
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kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
You "bite the hand" that is repairing your trailer in a their public forum...and you wonder why they no longer want to assist you???:confused:
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
... About a week ago I responded to a post about someone who was not sure if they wanted to by a Heartland product. I responded, "I wouldn't but from Heartland if I was you..."

Randy,

What you said was:
What ever you do, don't buy Heartland.

Regardless - Heartland did not retaliate against you. Of that, I have been assured. My hope is to have Service post a reply here with their interpretation of the phone conversation with you today.

Jim
 

BIG_ZD

Active Member
I thought the the point of this forum was to tell people of their experiences with heartland so that others may make a educated opinion with a purchase. If heartland wants to step in and make every post a good one then how can anyone make an educated guess. To flat out say they are not going to fix a proble because you said something bad about hearland that is uncalled for. Im trying to teach me 6 year old to stop crying when people say bad things about him. I guess I should stop, it looks like he is ready for the real world!
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
BigZD...as always, there is another side to this story...wait for Heartland's side before passing judgement...
 

westxsrt10

Perfict Senior Member
I thought the the point of this forum was to tell people of their experiences with heartland so that others may make a educated opinion with a purchase. If heartland wants to step in and make every post a good one then how can anyone make an educated guess. To flat out say they are not going to fix a proble because you said something bad about hearland that is uncalled for. Im trying to teach me 6 year old to stop crying when people say bad things about him. I guess I should stop, it looks like he is ready for the real world!

Two sides to every story.....I don't see Heartland has done anything wrong so far.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
BIG_ZD,

You're not off base with your point of the forum. That said, the forum is a company asset. It makes poor business sense to allow a company asset be used to against itself.

Randy responded to an existing thread with this one line reply "What ever you do, don't buy Heartland". The original poster of that thread wanted to know if now or Spring was a better time to buy a Heartland RV. To me, Randy's response was a very inappropriate public response to the question.

As a business, one has to weigh the effectiveness of the tools we put out there for the mutual benefit of the company and its customers. When that tool no longer serves the interests of both, it ceases to be effective.

Anyone who has spent a few days reading a good chunk of the 5 years of threads on this forum, knows that we allow, foster and want honest feedback. We gain from it, current owners gain from it and prospective customers gain from it. But to reply to a "when to buy" question with "What ever you do, don't buy Heartland", I have to ask - how is this helping anyone?



Jim
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
BIG_ZD,

You're not off base with your point of the forum. That said, the forum is a company asset. It makes poor business sense to allow a company asset be used to against itself.

Randy responded to an existing thread with this one line reply "What ever you do, don't buy Heartland". The original poster of that thread wanted to know if now or Spring was a better time to buy a Heartland RV. To me, Randy's response was a very inappropriate public response to the question.

As a business, one has to weigh the effectiveness of the tools we put out there for the mutual benefit of the company and its customers. When that tool no longer serves the interests of both, it ceases to be effective.

Anyone who has spent a few days reading a good chunk of the 5 years of threads on this forum, knows that we allow, foster and want honest feedback. We gain from it and prospective customer gain from it. But to reply to a "when to buy" question with "What ever you do, don't buy Heartland", I have to ask - how is this helping anyone?

Jim

Well said....
 

BIG_ZD

Active Member
Any time a product is for sale now a days there are always cutomers reviews. Here people say anything they want about a product. It could be good or bad. Yes the company themselves are not asking for reviews about there product is still getting reviews good or bad. Buys are using these more and more. It is for the customer to sift throught the reviews and determine if the product is good or bad. I feal that this should be allowed here. If someone is not going to buy a heartland because someone says "dont by a heartland" without backing up their statement then that is not a very educatied desition. I sifted though this formum many time before making my purchase and I dont regret it one bit. I love my trailer. I dont believe that people should feel that if they post a negative thing about heartland that it will get edited or removed. As long as heartland stands behind there product (unlike other companys these days) and fixes any problems that come along people will still buy great heartland products.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
How about a Private Message?

Randy:
I think there are times when a strong negative opinion is held that you don't need to shout it out to the world; instead, click on the poster's name you are replying to, and send them a PRIVATE message.
On the other hand, if you are detailing what you perceive to be a possible threat to your fellow Heartlander's safety, point it out to the group, with as little negativity as possible. Give Heartland and the vendors a chance to make it right.
I hope everything works out for you.
 
Hello everyone - this is Randy's wife, Janae. I was informed by Randy of the phone call he received from Heartland today regarding this issue being discussed. I have never been on this forum until just now and I feel that it is necessary for me to speak on a few things. Before judging, ask yourselves some questions.... How would you feel if your brand new 45K+ rig was falling apart at no fault of your own; you took your grandbaby on every camping trip with you and while traveling with her, you had several very scary/unsafe things happen to you while pulling the rig (due to it falling apart); you had to keep making payments on the rig all the while it's sitting at the shop (2nd time) waiting for a decision to be made on who will pay for internal damage; being told one day that it will not be paid for, another day you're told it will be partially paid for and you are told something different another day after that. These are just a few of the things we have experienced with our rig. Common sense would tell a person that this is a little more than frustrating, unnerving, energy draining and flat out stressful for new RV owners. With that being said, this would be the reason why my husband had made the statement he made about purchasing another Heartland RV. This might seem like an "inappropriate" answer to some, but it made perfect sense to him because we have been dealing with problems that seem to be growing to our astonishment. He answered just like he would hope & want someone else to do for him; give the honest truth so he could then sort things out for himself after proper research from other consumers. It is the right thing to do, even if it makes some people feel uncomfortable. Try to liken it to a pastor preaching in a church... what the pastor preaches doesn't always make people feel comfortable, but regardless, it's something that needs to be preached & heard. So please, think before handing out your judgements. We want to begin to enjoy our rig & have happy memories, we want to feel safe and have our grandbaby safe, we want to feel valued as consumers who had put their faith in Heartland, we want to help others because we would hope they would help us when asked or needed, we want to enjoy our American "freedoms" that our brave service men and women (daughter serving in Iraq) have fought for & are still fighting for without the fear or threat of reprisal. Is that too much to ask for? An honest answer would be "no". Thank you Heartland for your past and hopefully future continued efforts in correcting the damage to our rig and thank you for this forum by allowing us to use this "tool" for sharing and educating.

Sincerely,
Janae
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
You keep talking about all these horrible "things" that have happened to your trailer. It might help us to understand if you would elaborate on them in a calm, clear, non-bashing manner...without detailed information, his original comment and your followup comments, could appear to some, to be that of someone with possible buyer's remorse who's taking it out on the manufacturer.:confused: Unfortunately, we've seen that several times in the past...
 

Larryheadhunter

X-Rookies Still Luving it
We are big Heartland RV supporters as everyone who knows us will attest to. Our last rally in Buellton was a real success because people shared the good and the bad so that mods could be made to accommodate the different problems and shared their good experiences with Heartland as well. I have shared personally the good and the bad during my warranty period, and I commiserate with the Blackwell RV problems. It gets frustrating to be paying for a rig, and not be able to use it. On the other hand, all rigs have their issues and Heartland really listens and tries to figure out how to repair problems under warranty. Also Lippert needs to recognize that they need to step to the plate when they build frames and springs that are not up to code, or made in China.

When my springs broke last summer it was a mixed bag. On the one hand, Lippert stepped to the plate and replaced the springs,u bolts etc. in a timely manner, but to my chagrin, there were only 3 leaf springs on the rig originally which they changed to 4 leafs, and due to the spring leafs shattering and breaking, the frame rested on my rear driver side axle and ruined a brand new Goodyear G614 tire, which they unilaterally decided to pay me $65 for a $315 tire as they said they don't warranty the tires, although their springs caused the tire damage. So Randy, it's not only Heartland that is responsible but the big name OEM mfr that makes the product that fails, needs to step to the plate. Every year Heartland has improved their RV's and tried to change out some of their OEM mfgrs without fanfare. I have seen better TV's and entertainment systems, better tires, and many improvements that are part of the infrastructure.

My advice would be to only air problems that aren't in the loop being fixed, as everyone has feelings. When I called Jim Fenner about my springs, he referred me to Lippert and although I am not completely satisfied with their decision to stiff me on my ruined tire, although they originally agreed to pay for it, they did replace all the broken parts. I will continue to bug them that if they want good press, they should cover costs due to their mistakes, but I found out they really mess with you if you don't give them a first chance to fix their mistakes without fanfare.

When you badmouth a company, while you are trying to get warranty items fixed, don't you think that both Heartland and the OEMer won't be very pleased with your airing dirty laundry and mess with you a little bit because you hurt their feelings. If my child errs and doesn't listen to my advice, he ultimately pays the price, but if I don't give him a chance to fix his mistake, and yell at him, I doubt he will repair that mistake, rather he will show me his anger by ignoring my advice and finding out the hard way, and probably will cost me in the long run.

There is a Supreme Court mantra that fits your situation, "Time, place and manner". Nothing wrong with your frustration, and airing your anger, but it would have been a better choice to get it fixed first at no cost to you, even though you lost valuable camping time, don't you think, before going bananas to the members of the forum? I do understand that you had multiple problems, and if you privately negotiate answers to your problems, I think you might get satisfaction. Then on completion of all your repairs, that would be the time IMHO to start a thread stating all your problems and your dissatisfaction on the way it was handled. Remember, only members of the Forum will read your comments except for prospective buyers. Once you are completely repaired, there are plenty of outlets to express your displeasure. I really feel that you got the wrong end of the stick, but try in the future to find a private way to accomplish your goals.

In conclusion, why don't you call the Warranty service mgr, tell him you aired dirty laundry out of frustration and still would appreciate Heartland make sure that all is repaired correctly? Also call Lippert, and ask for a conference call with all parties and get your rig fixed, holding your tongue until after you are satisfied. All your complaints appear to be reasonable and should be addressed in a timely manner, and I do wish there was a lemon law, but your approach seems to be flawed as stated earlier. Your dealer should have also been contacted and represented you in getting your rig fixed as well. It makes little sense to tell a potential buyer not to buy a Heartland until your rig is running well and all problems have been solved. You could even had Heartland pick up your rig and have it fixed in the factory where it was built if you had to
Good luck with your repairs sir, I am sure if you lower your profile, you may ultimately be satisfied with your results.
 

SouthernNights

Past South Carolina Chapter Leader
Well thought out, well written and calm response to a serious problem no matter what the whole story is.

Good job Larry
 

geeksrus

Well-known member
Hello to everyone,ffice:eek:ffice" /><o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p></o>:p>
I have been experiencing multiple problems with my 3370RL. I have had a complete set of leaf springs sever while driving down the highway, 2 blow outs causing thousands of dollars in damage and about 4-5 months ago both sides of the king pin where the sidewalls are attached, the metal tore about 4 inches on both sides. After about 3 months, of Heatland and Lippert pointing fingers at each other, Lippert indicated that Heartland failed to attach the sidewalls to the frame correctly causing the damage (which I have to documentation). Heartland finally agreed to pay the 3,500 dollars to fix the problem. A few weeks after receiving my rig back, I noticed the front cap molding was shifting about an inch every time I placed it on my truck. I took it back to the shop, where it was discovered the vertical support adjacent to the bedroom slide completely tore away from the frame. The shop determined it a continuation from the sidewall not being attached correctly. The cost for the repaid is around 4,500 dollars. Heartland at first said "no" to fixing the problem, then recanted their "no" to we are looking into it. Since that time, I have posted a few posts about my problems and to my amazement; other Heartland owners have had similar problems. About a week ago I responded to a post about someone who was not sure if they wanted to by a Heartland product. I responded, "I wouldn't but from Heartland if I was you." And as a result of me making that statement, I received an email from Jim asking me to refrain from making statements like that. Today, 12/1/09, at 0920 hours, I received a phone call from a warranty representative telling me because what I posted, Heartland is not willing to fix my trailer. I immediately contacted the RV shop who has been working with Heartland about fixing my trailer and informed them of my phone call and asked them if Heartland had contacted them. To my surprise, Heartland did not contact the them, they called me directly. So much for freedom of speech. After paying over 45000 dollars for a trailer, you would expect that the trailer wouldn't fall apart. I paid the first time for a good trailer; know Heatland wants me to pay to fix the problem in which I have already paid for. I am shocked that Heartland would take this approach and be mad because I stated, "I wouldn’t buy from Heartland." I stand by my statement and will have to seek other alternatives to hold Heartland accountable for poor craftsmanship. Be aware about talking on this forum, Heartland will retaliate against you for speaking your mind. <o>:p></o>:p>
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Randy Blackwell<o>:p></o>:p>
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I suggest that you contact Heartland once again, via a letter, to see if they will re-consider fixing the latest issue.

If this fails you might want to consider contacting Lippert the same way.

If this also fails, I would suggest you contact
Robin Duffield at Good Sam's Action Line to see if she can assist in getting a decent settlement: actionline@goodsamclub.com. Seems they have been very successful in help customers.

Eh!



 

mrcomer

Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
I suggest that you contact Heartland once again, via a letter, to see if they will re-consider fixing the latest issue.

If this fails you might want to consider contacting Lippert the same way.

If this also fails, I would suggest you contact Robin Duffield at Good Sam's Action Line to see if she can assist in getting a decent settlement: actionline@goodsamclub.com. Seems they have been very successful in help customers.

Eh!

I am surprised it took you so long. Was your power off or what? BTW, this is not helping matters here. This is a perfect scenario where a PM should have been used instead of a public statement. EH!
 
H

Heartland Service

Guest
Heartland's perspective

I want to clarify a couple things and communicate what Heartland is doing. First of all the service center has been communicated with by both our service manager and our service advisor prior to and after making contact with Mr. Blackwell. We are attempting to keep this service issue from becoming an open check book. The service center diagnosed and quoted the repairs originally and need to stand behind the work heartland paid them to do. This has been communicated to the service center. Heartland will assist in the cost of the additional repairs that are necessary but not the repairs we have already paid for that will need to be redone. This will require additional negotiation by Heartland and the service center. This won't be accomplished until next week as all parties needed are out of the office until late Friday December 4th. Finally, the conversation between Mr. Blackwell and Chris DeLapaz (HRV service) was in no way a denial of assistance due to postings on this forum. Heartland does not base our service and warranty decisions on emotion but rathter what is right and what we feel is our liability.<O:p</O:p
 
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