First post: A safety concern

My first post. We've been researching and shopping with eye toward Teton and their kin at the upper quality end. Someone pointed me to Heartland and I took half a day checking things out, making a few calls, and have scheduled to head to Denver for the nearest dealer tomorrow.

Here's the biggest hiccup and maybe one of you can put me at ease or refer me to an engineering based source. The brakes. 2" drum pads seem REALLY small compared to the 3 to 3 3/4 I've seen on two and three axel rigs. My mentor tells me this is the single most important running and safety matter with the 5er and is the most overlooked. I need all the help I can get to tame 16,000 pounds of cranky momentum. Any info? Any comfort? Any perspective on this one? (I will haul with a dually).
 
J

Jeff

Guest
Reply Directly from Scott Tuttle at Heartland.

Gary, Greg, Jeff -

I talked with our engineer who has been designing and
engineering recreational vehicles for over twenty years.
Here's the crux of the conversation. While we
understand that there has been a lot of chatter on the
internet regarding the brakes on fifth wheels, a lot of the
talk has been slanted to make people feel like their
brakes are insufficient. I cannot speak for other
manufacturers, but as for Heartland, we have no concerns
about our braking. Will our electric 12" x 2" brakes stop
our coach? Absolutely. Do we fit comfortably within
Federal Motor Vehihcle Safety Standards and D.O.T.
standards? Absolutely.


Is there something out there that will stop our coach
"faster"? Yes, more brakes or another axle.
As for the two other systems you mentioned, the 12.25 x
3.375 brakes are available on 8,000 lb axles for coaches
that weigh more than our Landmark, which rides on 7,000
lb. axles. The other is system is actually electric over
hydraulic, not hydraulic over electric. With that system, an
electric pump pumps hydraulic fluid to hydraulic disk or
hydraulic drum brakes. Heartland chose not to consider
this system because of it's problematic history. We would
have to see proof that their actuation system has been
perfected before we would even consider it. I would
imagine that you could uncover some more info on that if
you do some digging on the net.


Anyways - we are confident that our brakes meet or
exceed all FMVSS and DOT regulations.
Can some body get more braking power to stop faster or
have more peace of mind - yes.
But you dont' need it on a Heartland Landmark.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Scott Tuttle
Heartland
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Great information from Scott at Heartland.

Also, with regard to his point on "electric over hydraulic" braking systems, I read somewhere, perhaps on RV.net of one user who verified that Ford's new built-in/integrated electronic brake controller system "will not" work with "electric over hydraulic" brake systems.

As an owner of neither, I cannot speak from experience of as an expert of any sort on this matter - I am only passing on what I read from one user who checked into it.

That all said, it would be very wise for one contemplating a 2005 Ford truck purchase (with the integrated brake controller system) for use on a 5th wheel trailer that uses "electric over hydraulic" brakes to really check into this claim - especially with Ford.

Jim
"future 5th wheel trailer and 1-ton dually owner!"
 

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I guess I don't get it above you are talking Electric over Hydraulic Brakes???
This is out of the constrution manual:
(BIGHORN uses a 6,000 lb axle​
7000 lb. on quad slides) with a leaf spring suspension system and 4 shock absorbers. The axles have a 2” X 12” electric brake system that will help you stop in some of the worst conditions. Our brakes are quick and easy to service vs. other brands like Torflex and other rubber suspension axles, which require special tools and costly parts and labor to fix or replace.)


From Ford towing guide:

(The available integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC) is integrated with the anti-lock brake system and synchronizes the vehicle and trailer brakes for seamless braking while towing even the heaviest loads. It’s also factory-installed, so there are no extra holes in the dash, no clumsy boxes at your knees and no aftermarket worries. An industry first.)
I don't see anything about hydraulic in either, Unless your talking about a nother model?????????
Sonny








 
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fireflipper

EX-Travel Bug
Fireflipper

Hi Sonnybeech
I believe what Jim is referring when he says electric over hydraulic is, some trailers are coming out with hydraulic brakes, but they require an electrical system to activate the hydraulic system. This said, the integrated brake controler on the new Fords are not or may not be compatable to fuction with this system. From the reading I have done, the Prodigy is compatable with the system, not sure about others. Hope this clears up the picture for you.
 
This is what I foundinthe Ford owners manual​

Trailer brakes
Electric brakes and manual, automatic or surge-type trailer brakes are safe if installed properly and adjusted to the manufacturer’s specifications.
The trailer brakes must meet local and Federal regulations. If you own a trailer with a hydraulic brake system, do not
connect the trailer’s hydraulic brake system directly to your vehicle’s brake system. The vehicle’s brake system is only designed to carry the appropriate amount of brake fluid for the vehicle alone. Connecting a hydraulic trailer braking system could adversely affect your vehicle’s braking performance.
Sonny


 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Sonny,

I understand that Ford has updated their integrated brake controller to now work with electric over hydraulic trailer braking systems. I believe they made this update in the spring of 2005. This change however is of no current consequence to Heartland owners as no current Heartland trailer uses an electric over hydraulic braking system.

Is there a specific question that you have? If so, if you can state that, perhaps a forum member can answer it for you.

Thank you,

Jim
 

BluegrassMan

Well-known member
Enough Brakes ??? (long post) sorry.

Hi All:

While we're all talking about one type brake over another, I thought I'd throw my $.02 worth in. The Summer of '04, I was rolling down a mountian in West Va.I-79. I had just crested the top and started down in a orange barrel zone, NOT thinking that any thing wierd would be happening, I was relaxed. Then I looked WAYYYY down at the bottom of the grade. I told my wife " I think the traffic is STOPPED !!! " BUT WHY ???

Some do gooder "IDIOT", stopped to let someone out from the temporary ON ramp into our ONE single lane !!!! I immediately hit the brakes, I was still a good distance away,(but probably too fast). It didn't seem that I had enough brakes on the 5ver OR my Dodge 2500-HD. I ended up with BOTH feet on the pedal, squeezing the button on the brake control at the same time !!!!!

MY wife said " We're not going to get stopped ! and we're gonna hit those cars !!!! I kept COOL and just said " I KNOW "!!!! I thought I could drive to the left and put it in the median THEN maybe roll on my side. OH S---- !

So there we went, Everything seemed to go into SLOW MOTION in my mind. We got stopped still upright, 2 cars passed the end on the line of traffic !!! I wonder what THEY thought ?:eek:

(Long story even longer) I had burned up my front discs (cracked) , glazed and cracked the pads, warped the rotors, burned the one wheel bearing, all this because MY TRAILER BRAKES WEREN'T ADJUSTED UP TO THE MAX !!!! I had a triple axle Sea Breeze, the brakes were plenty enough for the trailer, I thought my brakes were working fine, they were great for stopping at an intersection or getting off the interstate, but NOT for a panic stop !!! Make sure when you go out next time, to adjust them WAY up or have a technician do it for you.

I just thought this would help someone on here.:)
 
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jbeletti

Well-known member
Denny,

Thanks for telling us your story. That was pretty harrowing. Time for me to re-read my Prodigy manual and perhaps keep it set a bit more aggressively.

Jim
 

BluegrassMan

Well-known member
Brake adjustment

Hi All:

During the last post, I'm not sure if Jim and I are on the same wave length concerning adjusting UP the brakes. Even if you have your controller turned more agressive, or ALL the way up, it won't change the brake adjustment At the drum. I always turned the adjuster till the brake would drag a little when up on the jack. A technician told me to turn the adjuster till the wheel LOCKS UP! Then back the adjuster off just a little.

I had mine adjusted right after the "Almost catastrophe" Boy, did I have brakes after that. I DID have to crank the controller BACK some. I just thought that I'd try to clear this up, in case of any thoughts the other way, thinking that I was talking about just the controller.

Denny
 

irvin56

Well-known member
holy smokes

WOW**** I definately got a wake up call on this item. I also thought just cranking up input would do the trick. I will check and adjust brake propertly now .Thanks for info.
It's amasing what info this forum has on it.
addicted ???? maybe.
maybe not, but I'm learning a lot from all this stuff. I just got to remember where i read it Thanks everyoneNone
 

Jimmyt5

Well-known member
Went to a Lippart seminar and the tech said to adjust your breaks at least every 2000 miles. Said he does his when he comes home from a trip.
In my day before automatic break adjusters you would turn the adjuster wheel till lock up and then back off 2 clicks.
 

Jimmyt5

Well-known member
Just my guess, self-adjusting drum breaks adjust when you back up and apply the breaks, a least the ones I am familiar with. Maybe they don't think you go in reverse enough!!!!

Jim
 

slaytop

Well-known member
Self-adjusting drum brakes have a small lever that rests against the star wheel. The mechanism employs several extra parts that adjust the star wheel while braking when the vehicle backs up.

Trailer brakes don't normally have this feature and have to be adjusted manually.

One way to test the adjustment is by jacking up the wheel so it revolves freely. Open the breakaway switch and then try to revolve the wheel in one direction. If you can move the wheel more than 1/8th turn it needs to be tightened up. That's just my personal observation for a quick test without taking everything apart.
 
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