I need measurements if you have a SHORT BED Ford or any advice you can give.

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zephyr74

Member
Hi,
As you might have seen from some of my recent posts, I am a new owner of a Cyclone 2812.......but I need a hitch before I can pick it up and would like to keep my toolbox in my truck. I have never had a 5th wheel before. I am taking your advice and going to buy Firestone Airbags, and still deciding on a hitch pending measurements. I am also going to buy a new brake controller, I currently have the DrawTight and I am not happy with it.....I'm thinking about the Prodigy brake contoller

I need to know the distance between the forward most part of your hitch (whether it is the rails that bolt to the bed or the actual hitch receiver) to the front of the bed (closet to the cab). Please specify which truck you have so I can make sure measurements are consistent. I have a 2003 Ford F250, Short Bed, Crew Cab. I currently have an EXPENSIVE custom built chest toolbox (that sits below my rail so the height won't be an issue) in my truck and I am not sure if I have enough room for a hitch to be mounted in the bed of the truck with the toolbox. The footprint of the toolbox sits just forward of the bolts that mount my bed to the truck's frame. So, I am not sure if rails are going to hit the toolbox.

I would like to take almost everybody's advice and buy a SuperGlide. I would like the 14K Pull Rite Underbed mount if it means I can keep my toolbox in the truck or the above bed mount. Or ANY other hitch if I can keep my toolbox.


Any measurements, advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

Bighurt

Well-known member
I don't have any recommendations on hitch but a below rail height TB should be fine so long as it doesn't interfere with the hitch itself. I would be more concerned with your truck 12500lb tow rating and a 14K GVW trailer, and certainly would use a 16K hitch over a 14K hitch. One most always considered a buffer between rating and actual use. In the hoist world we use hoists rated at 125% their max load in this case that would be a 18K hitch. That maybe excessive but the one thing you don't want to fail is the 5th wheel.
 

mlburst1

Well-known member
We have a 2005 F250 CC short bed with a Reese 16K slider.

The distance from the front of the bed to the front edge of the rail is 23".

The base of our tool box extends 19" from the front of the bed.

See the attached pictures - let me know if you need any additional measurements.

Mike
2005-F250CC (0)..JPG2005-F250CC (1)..JPG2005-F250CC (2)..JPG
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Most hitch mounts are measured from the rear of the bed floor. You cannot mount it TOO far back or the 5er will lift the front wheels off the ground. The 12500 would worry me a little also. You live in Calif. also, SO beware of the county mounties. They will and do check the GCVW ratings and will write tickets. Stay away from Galmis and Ocoto Wells, they are really bad there. Bob
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Zephyr, Congrats on the Cyclone ! Old Cranky (Bob) gave you some sage advice. Hopefully I can too. I have a 18K Pull-Rite Super Glide, the big brother to the 14K. If your Cyclone GVW is over 14,000 pounds you will need the 18K too. As was stated, you want any hitch king pin center in front of the rear axle centerline to put weight on the front wheels. I would find the axle centerline (wheel hub centers) in your bed. Use a broom stick or piece of conduit and some nuts on a string, mark the centerline with chalk in your bed. On my 18K the 2" king pin center is 7" from the front (your tool box end) of the 18K Pull-Rite Super Glide. So your Pull-Rite will end (be at least) 8" in front of the chalk mark you made, it could be more. On another note, I had a short bed 2500HD with a towing package. I pulled my EMPTY 3670RL home from the dealer fine with it. However, it 'legally' was not able to tow the 3670RL because of the 3670RL GVW (16,000pds.). I had to get a bigger TV to be "Officially" legal. All the HWP has to do is read your VIN plates and if you are over weight in label numbers only they can ticket you. If they have portable scales and you are actually over weight you will be calling a RV tow service or a friend with a larger TV. The 18K Super Glide can be used in a 8' bed per the folks at Pull-Rite, call them for the install numbers before you make any holes. Good luck !
 

Dave012

Well-known member
RollingHome,

Does the handle on the Super Glide rotate when you make turns? If so would that effect the OPs ability to turn left since he has a tool box there? I don't have one so thought you may have some insight.
 
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Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Zephyr, I thought I would add this thought. The posted GROSS weights are what the "county mounties" look at. If the weight on your pin box says 18K...thats what they look at. They dont care how much it really weighs. It could be loaded with feathers, but you will still get a ticket. Some times, as Tom state, they will make you drop the trailer rite at the spot it sits. You will either have to pay someone to get it home or have a friend with a big enough truck take it for you. I hope you did research on the forum before you bought your Cyclone about weights. A salesman at a RV dealer will tell you anything. Most of them lie about weights. They dont care, its not there ticket or there life. You can respring it, airbag it, it doesnt matter. The weights posted on the door are what they care about. The old saying goes"it is...what it is" You are over weight with that trailer. There is another issue. If you were to have an accident and were found to be over weight, your insurance Co. just might not stand behind you. This is not ragging on you, its a fact and you should be aware of the problems that could come up. We have to look out for our brother HL owners. Dont know if you could swing getting a new or used 1tn...but you might want to think about it. Good luck Bob
 
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zephyr74

Member
Most hitch mounts are measured from the rear of the bed floor. You cannot mount it TOO far back or the 5er will lift the front wheels off the ground. The 12500 would worry me a little also. You live in Calif. also, SO beware of the county mounties. They will and do check the GCVW ratings and will write tickets. Stay away from Galmis and Ocoto Wells, they are really bad there. Bob


Bob and Tom,
You both bring up great points. Well, I already put a $1000.00 deposit on the trailer so do I walk away now and leave the HL family??? I really am not in a position to get rid of my truck or upgrade to a 1 ton. I am the original owner of this truck and I have taken GREAT care of it, maybe I should take the F250 placards off so the cops don't know its a 3/4 ton, lol. I talked with a bunch of people (not dealers) and even went over to the Ford Powerstroke forum to find out info about my trucks towing capability. Most said as long as I don't load it over the 12,800 lbs I will be legal, however you brought up the truth----being the cops look at the GWVR of 14,000 not what it is actually loaded to. The total GCWVR is 20,000 so I am also within that. Should I just walk on my deposit until I get a bigger truck (but I really like that CYCLONE!!!), or do what Tom did and drive it home and later down the road move up to a 1 ton? I can't have a dually because of where I hunt with my truck. Everybody is telling me that my truck can pull it and they see bigger trailers being pulled by my same F250. Thanks for being honest with me!

So, if I do stay with this Truck and coach, is the 14K superglide enough, or should I go 16K superglide?


As for everybody taking measurements and pictures, thanks a million! I took my truck to a install shop and they set the 14K superglide in my bed where it needs to be and I had 1/2 inch from the handle as it rotates to my toolbox. I'm not sure if the 16K is bigger in the sense that it will actually hit my toolbox.
Thanks for your advice!!
 

frumbawa

Well-known member
I will let the pros give you the advice and simply give you my measurements. I have a Husky 16K manual slide, 03 F250 shortbed. From the front of my bed to the edge of the rail is 22 1/2 inches. To the tip of the hitch itself is 23 3/4". Sorry, its too dark otherwise I would have snapped some pics.

Hope this helps.

Frank
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Dave, excelant point about the handle... actually, what happens in left or right hand turns is as the trailer moves left or right past about 70 degerees the whole carriage assembly not only pivots but moves towards the rear of the vehicle. Total tranverse is about 14" max. which is dependant on degree of rotation. However, the handle and carriage assembly is back a bit so the degree of turn is less of a factor, really good point though because... what if ?
Zephyr, Bob brings up another important point. If you are involved in a "incident" and you are in fact over weight... you know the drill... We live in such a litigeous society, that you are guilty... next. We are not trying to scare you or pee on your camp fire... but ya gotta know. Not worse case scenario, just reality. I would suggest a heavier TV even if it's a wee bit older. Just my opinion or IMHO... in modern brieves
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Opps, Zephyr, I'm not sure the 16K Super Glide is still available... you may need to go to the 18K. Maybe some old stock around, call Pull-Rite to make sure. You could possibly find a 1 ton single wheel (non-dually) which will allow you to maintain your hunting lifestyle. Forfit your deposit... wow, if some scoundrel dealer does that to you let us know so we can crucify him (or her)... Any dealer that would take your hard earned dollars and not recongnize you are going into the " outer limits " because of an insufficient TV capacity really deserves to be pickled... Also, I would hope Heartland would want to know about this. Have you thought of perhaps downsizing, just a thought. Remember, you can also order a unit that does fit your TV... just another thought. Tom.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Zephyr, just what does you owners manual say the GCVW rating is. Remember a TT has a different weight rating than a 5er. Both of my 2500 GM trucks are rated at 22K GCVW rating. With the Horn loaded (rated at 14K) as much as the DW can. I am at 21K, full of fuel and all the crap she can stuff in the truck.

Would I walk away, probably not. When you get everything done and the Cyclone is home. Go fill the truck with fuel. Take the DW with you and go find a truck stop with a CAT scale and weight the whole mess and see what you have. Set it on the scale so that the wheels are between the steel lines in the scale platform. This will give you an axle weight on each axle and then the total weight of the whole rig. You and DW stay in the truck. If you have the time, unhook the 5er and weigh the axles on the truck only..with you and DW in it and full of fuel. Then you will know what your pin weight is. THEN, go home...load it like you are going camping. Then go weigh it again.....that will be the acid test. I really dont think that you will over on the gross. You might be a little over on the drive axle.

What size tires are you running?? A good 265 will have a weight rating of 3450 per tire. Thats almost 7K that the drive axle can carry. Just food for thought....want you and the family to be safe. Bob

"PEEING ON YOUR CAMPFIRE".......boy I have to remember that one.....ROTFLOL:D:D:D:D
.
 

zephyr74

Member
Bob, my owners manual says my GCWVR is 20,000 lbs. It says my truck's GVWR is 8800 lbs. and my 5th wheel trailer capacity is 12,800lbs. THE DEALER said that as long as the Cyclone is under 12,800 lbs I will be ok on the legal side because my truck can only tow 12,800 lbs. They said the GWVR of the Cyclone being 14,000 is illegal for my TV, as long as I keep the Cyclone under 12,800---which I will do no problem. The cyclone dry is 9500lbs, meaning it leaves me another 3300lbs for water, quad, gear. The reason I went with Heartland was the quality. The reason I went with the 2812 is because it is the smallest 5th wheel Toy hauler cyclone makes. Anybody have a 1 ton that they want to trade for a immaculate 7.3 ltr?
 

zephyr74

Member
One more thing Bob, my tires are 33X12.5X17, load rating D. I'm probably going to get new tires eventually and I will make sure they are "E" rated.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
OK, 1st things 1st. Get the 33's off the truck. Your gear ratio is in the tank with those tires. If it has 3:73's, its probably down to about 3:23's It would be really hard on the truck trying to pull that much weight with those tall of tires/gears. It also really screws up the ABS braking. You do know that your speedo is off (slow) by about 7-8 MPH or maybe more.

The next issue will be the height of the truck and hitch to the pin box. Do you have any kind of lift kit?? Its tougher to get a 5er to set level than a TT is. You dont want to lift the trailer suspension to match the truck. It will make the trailer very top heavy and could make it more that the 13'6" legal height. You are at about 13'2" now. Just more fuel for thought. Bob
 
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RollingHome

Well-known member
Zephyr, I saw where another forum member had a 16K Pull-Rite (used) for sale in CA. His moniker is Larryheadhunter, ya may want to contact him and save some molla... Check out the other recent threads for info... Also, your numbers sound like you may be legal, so verify first before you walk away... UR right, Heartland products are awesome, I know I've owned some of the other junk....
 

zephyr74

Member
Tom---so I might be legal does my reasoning make sense or am I way misinformed? And thanks for the info about the hitch.

Bob, no lift kit on the truck just 33" tires. And, I know I shouldn't have put those on way back when but I wasn't hauling anything back then. And your are right the speedo is off by about 6mph.

Honestly guys, I was debating over a cheaper built Forest River Sandstorm and this Cyclone 2812. Both were the shorter 5th wheels but the quality is so far better on the Cyclone I had to make it work. I would be so mad at myself for lowering my standards to a cheaply built trailer. So, maybe I only wanted to listen to those who were making my truck work for the Cyclone.
I hope in the long run I am making a good decision.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
TOM, I sent him the link for Larry's thread about 30 minutes ago... We are all trying to help him out. Bob "peeing on your campfire" lov it......
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
All of this info is making my head hurt. Why does this debate got on over and over. The bottom line is if you overload your TV you are risking disaster. If you feel comfortable doing that then why ask. The rest of us are put in danger every day on the highways by individuals who overload their TV. I saw a 34 foot travel trailer yesterday being pulled by an F150 and the rear bumper and front of the trailer were so low they were almost touching the ground. I don't know how he steered his truck. Please quit trying to rationalize stupidity and do the right thing for your and our safety. You will be saying "well I should have" from your hospital bed or coffin if you don't. (I am now off my soapbox - please forgive me) IMHO
 

Bighurt

Well-known member
Bob, my owners manual says my GCWVR is 20,000 lbs. It says my truck's GVWR is 8800 lbs. and my 5th wheel trailer capacity is 12,800lbs. THE DEALER said that as long as the Cyclone is under 12,800 lbs I will be ok on the legal side because my truck can only tow 12,800 lbs. They said the GWVR of the Cyclone being 14,000 is illegal for my TV, as long as I keep the Cyclone under 12,800---which I will do no problem. The cyclone dry is 9500lbs, meaning it leaves me another 3300lbs for water, quad, gear. The reason I went with Heartland was the quality. The reason I went with the 2812 is because it is the smallest 5th wheel Toy hauler cyclone makes. Anybody have a 1 ton that they want to trade for a immaculate 7.3 ltr?

GVWR for the 2812 is 14K, 9205 is the MT weight but you have to remember the garage is rated to hold 2500 lbs of toys. Added to that the weight of a full water, full grey, and a full black tank with ammenities such as food and clothing you will come close to 14K

12800 still exceeds the F250's tow rating of 12500...by the manufacuter. GCVWR - curb weight(Tow Vehicle) - passenger weight - luggage weight (TV) - fluid weight (TV) = GVWR of trailer

Just because you half load a trailer doesn't change the data plates GVWR.

Your not the only one stretching the limit looks at all the chevy 3500 dodge 3500 and F350 SRW's towing the big cyclone's at 18000 GVWR. Nearly all are over the actual rating. Only a handful of one ton trucks can handle those weights. Dodge 4500 and Ford F450 pickups are two that can.
 
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