2007 3250TS Front Landing Jack Failure

Hi,

Our Heartand Big Country 3250TS has only been used a few times. Yesterday at Gilham lake in Arkansas, it was time to load up and go home.

It was then that I discovered our "Extend" switch engaged the motor but nothing happened. After opening the hatch and making sure there were no obstructions (and there were none) I noticed that the motor was in a different position than i had remembered. Closer inspection revealed that the Manual Override Shaft was cocked at a funny angle and there was absolutely NO WAY that it could be engaged -and when I grabbed it ... it came loose in my hand. This made for a tough connection involving bottle jacks and jack stands to raise the trailer enough to connect to my truck.

The electric motor has part number 125340 - Model # 1A06501-20201 - S/N 04295

The plastic housing says "Venture Mfg Co." and I see no part number on it.
According to a Lippert LIP Sheet - 0039 Rev A from their website at LCI I was able to identify the parts by name. The Manual Override Shaft is broken & The Reduction gearbox is also broken. It seems to me that this part of a 5th wheel should be extremely ruggedly built and trouble free for a long time. The Reduction gearbox housing is PLASTIC.

My thoughts are that this component was poorly or improperly installed or defective from the beginning.

This unit has never been mistreated or abused in any way and seen very little use since we purchased the trailer.

To decouple from my truck I will have to use floor jacks and jack stands, a lot of manual labor and a certain degree of danger to myself and property. I use my Dodge 3500 dually for work, so the decoupling has to happen today.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced a similar problem with their trailer's front landing jacks.
 

SouthernNights

Past South Carolina Chapter Leader
There is a replacement for the plastic gearbox.

here is just one of many threads about this problem

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/12390-front-landing-gear-problems?p=91638&viewfull=1
 
Larry & Samantha ... I'd like to send a "thank you" for directing me to the thread about the problems others have had with their front landing jacks and the solutions others have found. I just ordered the parts to fix mine. I'm more than a little peeved about the poor quality of the original equipment that Heartland chose to install for this very important function. If we hadn't been fortunate enough to have a friend at our campsite who had a bottle jack, we might still be out in the boonies of Arkansas. As it was, I spent hours carefully jacking up my trailer to couple to my Dodge 3500. Then upon arrival at home, and getting our trailer situated in my rear driveway, more hours of exhausting work to decouple the unit safely. Whichever bean counter made the decision to cut corners on quality should have to answer for my ruined vacation. I am the only person that has ever extended or retracted the landing legs for our Big Country 3250TS and I am one of those people that actually reads the directions. Our trailer has not had enough usage to cheerfully pay the outrageous prices that Lippert's website publishes. Priority Mail delivery of the Atwood 70177 is about 1/3 Lippert's price. I will post another reply upon receival and after I install the new parts. Thanks again for your help!
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Nick, please don't blame HL... It's not their fault ! They buy the sub components based on what they are told. Unfortunately the sub component suppliers misrepresent their products. You and I both know, you should NOT have had the problems you DID have and it is a shame you did. But, if a HL design engineer reads and believes what a sub component suppliler states about his product - how can he or she know the supplier is lying ? The last thing HL wants is a ****ed off customer. It makes absolutely no sense to cheat lie or steal and stay in business. HL wants you and I to be happy, like and praise their stuff ! It makes them just as PO when your type thing happens. Find out WHO the sub-supplier is and denegrate them to no end, have a field day ! They asked for it and they deserve it ! I'm sorry for your troubles and I hope you resolve them. Contact HL customer service, share this post, maybe they can help. Tom
 

SouthernNights

Past South Carolina Chapter Leader
Tom, I think you are being too kind to HL and at the same time not giving them enough credit for knowing excatly what goes into their trailers.

Most of the time I consider myself a HL cheerleader. Their customer service is second to none. But there are times when I have problems or you read about them here that you do have to wonder why they do certain things. There have been many threads about the "quality" including a few soap box sermons from me.
Do they use parts that are "cheap"?? Sure they do. But cheap brings with it the fact of a calculated failure rate that is acceptable. Why do they use "cheap"?? Holds the price point down, keeps the weight down etc.

My biggest complaint is the workmanship.

E.G. We are camping right now but I brought all the stuff to rebuild my steps. They have squeaked since day one and it drives me nuts every time I use them. After pulling the carpet and treads off I found out why they squeak. They are built as a complete unit and then installed into a finished area. I assume they probably use the same steps in several models. There was one screw holding the unit in place, one screw for the bottom tread, and 2 screws in the top tread.
If that wasn't enough the rise is not the same between the 3 risers. Almost an inch difference between the tallest rise and the shortest rise. They could have a done a little better!! And whoever heard of putting carpet on a stair skirt. That isn't quality-thats just cheap and fast.-or a bad interior designer.

But, it can all be fixed.

I do feel for people like NickatNyte. Problems like that can leave a bad taste in your mouth for HL or the vendors they use. Just like the obvious spring problem on some units. HL works with Lippert to build a frame, Lippert farms out the springs to what I guess was the cheapest vendor. Did anybody check on what they were actually getting?? Or is that a calculated failure rate also? Who knows, but they should not be having this problem. How often do you hear about the springs breaking or ubolts loosening up on a car or truck? Spend a couple of dollars and maybe go take some lessons from car manufacturers and learn how to buy parts from vendors and test them.

There are a few times where it appears that "cheap" was used but there is actual reason behind it. e.g. the plastic PEX fittings. While brass from the factory would have been nice, there are a couple of states that will not let you use brass because of lead content in brass. JIM B did tell us HL tried to use the brass and was told they could not sell their trailers in certain states if they did.

So I guess, everything has it's reason for being on our trailers, and if we, the customers dont like it then our option is voice our opinion and change it ourselves.

And by the way, HL is not alone with all this. Spend some time on some other trailer forums and you learn real quick that the same problems exist there. . but I do believe HL cares and listens.
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
I hear ya Larry and I agree with most you said. I am somewhat... cross that out, I am a very loyal customer with whatever I buy because I research a product to death before I buy. I take most negative and positive comments with a grain of salt because folks like to whine and others like to pat themselves on the back or "think" their decision was the best. However, after 4 different brands of RV's I see the same problems repeating themselves. Combine my own experience with our gaggle of family members who own multiple RV's and the associated problems, ditto on the problem repeats. Sub-suppliers, HL is big, but, Lippert or rather their parent company dwarfs HL. I see a lot of problems with Lippert's stuff. However, in fairness to them, I don't know is this is a quality problem or quantity showing these problems. In many cases HL and other RV builders are limited by the number of sub-suppliers out there. For example, Lippert makes the chassis, they also make the folding metal entrance steps, they also own Trailair, they make the axle, brake and spring assembly, they make the kingpin box. What they own wholly or other is staggering and they keep getting bigger.

HL workmanship. Now that's another story. Indiana currently has a 28% unemployment rate. That's high ! Indiana also is the RV capital of the world. One would think that good workers, experienced workers would be easy to find. Then what's the problem ? If what I said is true then management is the problem. Ya don't blame the riding passengers when the bus gets lost, do ya ? If I were the HL CEO, I would find out the root cause of any problem. Is it product related ? Is it design related ? Is it working conditions related (poor quality results if a worker is too hot or cold) ? Is it poor line supervision, inexperienced forepersons ? If I found it to be quality related, I would make line management read these type threads. Then I would make assembly line workers read the same post. Then I would put both of them on the spot and say "What are you going to do about these type problems you created (if it is their fault) ". I would then assign a manager to monitor their progress and end result, I would hold that manager responsible. You can't solve a problem if ya don't know about it. When I did this I would also put in place award and recognition programs for line workers and management. However, today we live in a blameless society where no one is responsible for anything and it's not working. Our colleges and universities do a poor job of teaching what it takes to run a company right, instead their sports teams take the spotlight. Most today are on a fast track to profit and they fail to recognize this fact. This diatribe is not my opinion, it comes from years of seeing the same scenario repeat itself over and over and over in most industries. It comes from inexperienced bus drivers who keep getting lost ! Drivers who were taught by professors who have never driven ! The answer is to throw out the text book, roll up the sleeves and get down and dirty. Turn the PC off and get out on the floor and find out what's going on. But, no one wants to leave their air conditioned cushy office and do what's needed... no one except the oriental competition that is... in the words of Doctor Laura, " Now go take on the day ".
 

noobee

Well-known member
Hi,

Our Heartand Big Country 3250TS has only been used a few times. Yesterday at Gilham lake in Arkansas, it was time to load up and go home.

It was then that I discovered our "Extend" switch engaged the motor but nothing happened. After opening the hatch and making sure there were no obstructions (and there were none) I noticed that the motor was in a different position than i had remembered. Closer inspection revealed that the Manual Override Shaft was cocked at a funny angle and there was absolutely NO WAY that it could be engaged -and when I grabbed it ... it came loose in my hand. This made for a tough connection involving bottle jacks and jack stands to raise the trailer enough to connect to my truck.

The electric motor has part number 125340 - Model # 1A06501-20201 - S/N 04295

The plastic housing says "Venture Mfg Co." and I see no part number on it.
According to a Lippert LIP Sheet - 0039 Rev A from their website at LCI I was able to identify the parts by name. The Manual Override Shaft is broken & The Reduction gearbox is also broken. It seems to me that this part of a 5th wheel should be extremely ruggedly built and trouble free for a long time. The Reduction gearbox housing is PLASTIC.

My thoughts are that this component was poorly or improperly installed or defective from the beginning.

This unit has never been mistreated or abused in any way and seen very little use since we purchased the trailer.

To decouple from my truck I will have to use floor jacks and jack stands, a lot of manual labor and a certain degree of danger to myself and property. I use my Dodge 3500 dually for work, so the decoupling has to happen today.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced a similar problem with their trailer's front landing jacks.

Had the problem a number of times... replaced the motor twice & the gear box (plastic, WOW) 3 times. In March, I replaced the complete lift system with an independent lift system from Ultra-Fab: http://www.ultra-fab.com/fw.cfm

CS
 

jgallego

Active Member
When my landing gear failed fortunately I had the ultra fab leveling system and I was able to hook and unhook. I had the front jacks replaced with hydraulic jacks. Have separate controls for each of the front jacks and are a lot faster.

Jaime
 
Hi Tom & Patti,

I don't want to portray myself as a crybaby or blowhard griping for fun. The plain and simple truth is my wife and I love our Big Country 3250TS. This is our 3rd RV and think we made a great choice for the price range we could afford. Heartland's people have been great to us and very helpful. The problems we have had are simple in comparison to the Open Road (Pilgrim) 5th wheel we had before purchasing this one.

However, I still believe that the front landing jacks on a 5th wheel trailer should not be suspect in quality or suitability for the job they are required to perform. I believe the components for this important function should be sturdy, constructed of heavy duty materials and last for years without ANY operational problems. If you take a few minutes to read other people's experiences with these same components, you can readily see that this isn't an isolated or unusual occurence. There are lots of us dealing with trailer Landing Jacks that suddenly "out of the blue" break in such a way that you cannot even use the manual override to couple or decouple your rig. The "right" thing to do is for Hearland to hold Lippert responsible for an excessive number of failures and perform a "recall" in the interest of the safety of their customers.

Lippert's response to my inquiry was a "retail" price quote to send me another plastic replacement. I realize they are in business to be profitable, but approximately 80 bucks (plus shipping) for something that is incapable of performing occasional duty does not impress me. I opted for a competitor's replacement. I'm not interested in jumping on Heartland or Lippert's sub-suppliers. My 5th Wheel doesn't say "Venture Mfg Co" and made in China - I happen to believe that someone at Heartland should read (and act) on the experiences and problems that are shared in this forum. When it is apparent that a component is inadequate they (Heartland and Lippert in this case) should be Pro-Active and do something novel - "Take care of your customer!" Don't try to gaff them for another $80.00 plus shipping for a hunk of plastic crap that has already proven to be inadequate in every way.
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Nick, you didn't come across as a cry baby. I thought you expressed yourself well and described your problem well. Any sane person would be upset if this happened to them. In my post I was attempting to point out the problem appears to be a Lippert problem (again) not a HL problem. Sometimes we make HL the whipping boy by making them guilty by association, more so then they are.

I also wish you would reconsider contacting Lippert for resolution before someone gets seriously hurt. Perhaps a letter addressed to the Lippert CEO and a CC to Lippert's parent company CEO, just may be a shot over their bow. I'm not being melodramatic when I say, you just may save someone's life ! What you had to do - twice - was dangerous, especially after a long drive home ! Tom
 

noobee

Well-known member
If HL is allowing shoddy components to be installed on the units they build, they should be sharing the blame & obligation of fixing the problem & fixing the customer (making the customer happy).

CS
 

ghoffman

Member
I have a 2009 and Monday mine goes back into the shop for the 3rd time in two years with landing gear issues. It's not dependable. First it was the mounts on the motor, second it was stripped gears and the third time the left jack just free falls to the ground. It will take Rivers RV in Jacksonville FL probably two weeks to get it fixed. The first time it took them three weeks, the second time it took two weeks. They are a Hartland dealer and don't stock parts. I'm just lucky that I bought an extended warranty. I think Hartland should stand behind their product and get the landing jack issue fixed once and for all.
I guess I need to buy a big floor jack and haul it around with the 5th wheel where ever I go!
 

caissiel

Senior Member
I had a trailer fpr 15 years and never had any problem with the ladding jacks.
Last month I checked my units and found that the motor was not mounted correctly on the drive.
Out of 2 mounting bolts one was not tight.
Had to remove the motor and drive and tap the threads in the drive insert so the motor could be mounted properly.
No fault of Heartland again but bad quality assurance by the supplier of the product.
If only the installer wound have noticed the loose motor, it would have been replaced.
But today everyone's work is measured by quantity and not quality so it went unnoticed or no one did anything to it.

Years ago My Brother in law while working for Ford received notice like all employees that if they notice any problems on line
they better stop the line, well..... everyone tought that they were in trouble and the line would stop forever.

Well it was a non event and no one wanted to be caught causing the line to shut down so there quality of work improved, and they ended
making the best car in North America at that plant.

Here is my tought on this, we could have great product if everyone would care about their resposibilities on the line and check the product they install.
This can only improve if the product received at Heatland is 100% quality assured and not crappy like I have experienced.

This goes also for my Ford truck that is the worst Ford ever sold and its all their falt of not using the right product as instructed by International.
 
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