Level-Up problems and questions...

Last week (Wednesday) on the way to the Nashville Rally, we had Level Up installed on our Cyclone in Goshen by Trailair. We then proceeded to Nashville and the system worked great. On the way home (Sunday), we stopped for the night and found the system inoperable. Shortly there after, we noticed hydraulic fluid leaking from the underbelly. After a little more research, we found a house was leaking and the system had no fluid remaining.

For those of you considering this option, a word of caution. Since the system effectively replaces the Heartland hydraulic system that drives your slides, if there is a failure, you can not open the slides nor can you disconnect the rig from the truck (because the landing gear will not extend). Lesson learned the hard way!

Now, my bigger questions for those of you with the system. Has anyone else had a problem with broken lines on this system? Has anyone looked at how the system was installed? In my case, the new hydraulic lines we simply placed on top of the underbelly and not strapped to the frame. Since the lines were not strapped down, they rubbed against some of the metal frame which cut into the line causing the leak.

And an additional question for the more mechanically inclined than me. The system contains 4 back stabilizers plus the 2 front landing gear. My rig weighs in close to 19K pounds. The hydraulic lines are rated for 2850 pounds each. Since there are 6 lines (plus 6 return lines), simple math would seem to indicate that 6x2850 (=17,100) would not support the weight of the rig. Am I missing something?

Sorry you've had issues, however, I can say we've had our six-point Level-Up for more than a year, and have had absolutely no problem and no leaks. I know that the lines are laid inside the belly, as I watched the entire installation.

I don't doubt your word, but I find it strange that hydraulic lines, that are very thick as they must hold lots a pressure, could have a hole "rubbed" it in less than two weeks. Are you certain there wasn't a loose connection??

As for the line pressure holding the weight of your rig. I'm not a hydraulic engineer, but I don't think the lines are what holds the weight, it's the pressure needed in the legs, and each one of the six legs is rated to hold at least 7,000lbs...now that adds up to 42,000lbs...way more than is need to hold your unit. I can tell you the system can easily lift the rig completely off the ground, as we've done it several times, including just recently to change the tires after a blowout.

Ken/Kathy - Sorry about your blowout. That is actually one of the reasons I wanted Level up. You just don't know when that will happen!

When I left the rig on Monday at the repair shop, they had not pulled the line out but I could certainly see it squirting out of the line in the middle of the rig on the underbelly. Trailair shipped a new line to the shop Tuesday and they installed it today. Hudson (on the forum) was at the shop when the repair was done and he has seen the actual line. It was in about in the middle of a 11 foot hose. Not a connector... The place doing the repair advised that if we don't do something more, the same thing will happen again. Also to note, it was only 5 days before this happened but the rig did cover about 1000 miles during that time.

We had Level Up installed about 3 weeks ago and have used it 3 or 4 times with few problems and to be honest, the problems were probably user error. Does anyone have a written out set of directions for hooking up and for unhooking. I'm looking for something idiot proof, something that lays it out step by step by step. Can anyone offer a set of directions, pls?

By the way, Level Up is the best thing since sliced bread - don't want to ever do without it again.

jgoddardg said:

We had Level Up installed about 3 weeks ago and have used it 3 or 4 times with few problems and to be honest, the problems were probably user error. Does anyone have a written out set of directions for hooking up and for unhooking. I'm looking for something idiot proof, something that lays it out step by step by step. Can anyone offer a set of directions, pls?

By the way, Level Up is the best thing since sliced bread - don't want to ever do without it again.

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We love the levelling system on our LM. There are instructions for it's use on the forum under the Heartland Owners Tools tab. Select manuals, frame, and levelling to show two docs from Lippert. I used them as I soon forgot the info from my PDI, and now I find the system very easy to use without referring to the manuals.

We purchased a 2011 Bighorn with the level up system on it (one of the real selling points for us). Within 2 weeks, the entire system failed in the down position due to the brain frying rendering us immobile. I spent 3.5 hours on the phone with Vance (?) from Lippert who walked me through all the troubleshooting steps and then the hydraulic by-pass steps. We finally got it lifted, were mobile again, and got back home. Lippert replaced the brain and it is working fine again. We have been very happy with Level Up and I have recommended it to others, but with the caveat that it is a mechanical system which will have issues. I am in the process of documenting the steps I went through so that, when HYDRAULICS is its own topic on the forum (which I have requested), I can post it so others have access should the need arise.

GOOD LUCK!

beasleyrl said:

Ken/Kathy - Sorry about your blowout. That is actually one of the reasons I wanted Level up. You just don't know when that will happen!

When I left the rig on Monday at the repair shop, they had not pulled the line out but I could certainly see it squirting out of the line in the middle of the rig on the underbelly. Trailair shipped a new line to the shop Tuesday and they installed it today. Hudson (on the forum) was at the shop when the repair was done and he has seen the actual line. It was in about in the middle of a 11 foot hose. Not a connector... The place doing the repair advised that if we don't do something more, the same thing will happen again. Also to note, it was only 5 days before this happened but the rig did cover about 1000 miles during that time.

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All I can think is that somehow one of the lines got "pinched"...knowing how careful Ron at Trailair is with the install, I really think this was a fluke that should have never happened of course, but still a fluke. I know of quite a few who have had this system installed, one or two before us and quite a few after us, who've had no issues. The one thing we did notice right after install, was several connections that were seeping and needed tightening...haven't seen a drop of fluid since, and the system has worked flawlessly.

We probably have more than 7-8,000 miles on our rig since the system was installed without problems...that's what makes me think it got caught in a pinch point, to go thru hydrualic line that quick...just "rubbing" against something would take a whole lot longer...IMHO! If the repair shop places the line in a safe location...I doubt you will have any more problems.

jgoddardg said:

We had Level Up installed about 3 weeks ago and have used it 3 or 4 times with few problems and to be honest, the problems were probably user error. Does anyone have a written out set of directions for hooking up and for unhooking. I'm looking for something idiot proof, something that lays it out step by step by step. Can anyone offer a set of directions, pls?

By the way, Level Up is the best thing since sliced bread - don't want to ever do without it again.

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Here is a link for manual...........http://www.lci1.com/OwnersManuals/Leveling/hydraelectriclcd.pdf

Yes you are missing something. There is a mechanical advantage to the hydraulic cylinder depending on the size of actuating piston. So, it wouldn't be out of the question for a cylinder to be rated for 7000 lbs. while only having 2500 lbs. operation pressure.

jgoddardg said:

We had Level Up installed about 3 weeks ago and have used it 3 or 4 times with few problems and to be honest, the problems were probably user error. Does anyone have a written out set of directions for hooking up and for unhooking. I'm looking for something idiot proof, something that lays it out step by step by step. Can anyone offer a set of directions, pls?

By the way, Level Up is the best thing since sliced bread - don't want to ever do without it again.

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Is the Level-up system still on sale in Elkhart. If it is we're thinking of traveling over there to have it installed.

nemo45 said:

Is the Level-up system still on sale in Elkhart. If it is we're thinking of traveling over there to have it installed.

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The one I had installed was the system Lippert offered to rally participants. I originally had electric landing gear which were replaced by the hydraulic gear in the front and with an additional 4 added to the rear. If you do it, make sure you see what they do with the lines before you leave the facility. If I had it to do again, I would demand they be tied up before I left. Laying them on the underbelly is a problem waiting to happen. Maybe I was unlucky -- but in my case, I think that particular part of the install was very poorly done. The cleanup on this line will be over $400 and Lippert/Trailair provided the new hose! Someone else noted that Ron did a good job. I'll agree with that but this part of the install (running the lines) was done by someone else while he installed the rest of the equipment.

Had the Level-Up system installed on Wednesday. So far so good. I am very pleased. Being completly level is a new experience. One comment, the instruction from Ron at Trail-Air was fast and a lot of info to absorb. The written directions are very helpful.

beasleyrl said:

The one I had installed was the system Lippert offered to rally participants. I originally had electric landing gear which were replaced by the hydraulic gear in the front and with an additional 4 added to the rear. If you do it, make sure you see what they do with the lines before you leave the facility. If I had it to do again, I would demand they be tied up before I left. Laying them on the underbelly is a problem waiting to happen. Maybe I was unlucky -- but in my case, I think that particular part of the install was very poorly done. The cleanup on this line will be over $400 and Lippert/Trailair provided the new hose! Someone else noted that Ron did a good job. I'll agree with that but this part of the install (running the lines) was done by someone else while he installed the rest of the equipment.

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I know this has been said before, but I have a lot of experience working with hydraulic hoses, cylinders and such and there is no way that the hoses laying in a tangled mess in the underbelly with all the electrtical and water lines could cause or rub a leak in the hose, unless the hose got pinched or punctured with a screw when they closed up the wall. There just is not that much movement in the hoses after they are installed. Or, there was a problem, a deffect, with the hose before it was intsalled. Depending on where the spilled hydraulic oil is, if there are no electrical or water lines laying in it, I wouln't bother cleaning it up. What can it hurt. There is less than a gallon in the resivoir. Of course if its in the storage area, thats different. Also, IMHO, besides the hose, Trailair should be responsible for the clean up, if there is any.

beasleyrl said:

And an additional question for the more mechanically inclined than me. The system contains 4 back stabilizers plus the 2 front landing gear. My rig weighs in close to 19K pounds. The hydraulic lines are rated for 2850 pounds each. Since there are 6 lines (plus 6 return lines), simple math would seem to indicate that 6x2850 (=17,100) would not support the weight of the rig. Am I missing something?

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Your 2850 would be the working pressure of the hose. The hydraulic fluid works against a piston so if you are pushing 1000 psi against a 1 square inch piston you have 1000 pounds of pressure for the piston. A 2 square inch piston would have double the output for the same 1000 psi input.

beasleyrl said:

The place doing the repair advised that if we don't do something more, the same thing will happen again.

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So why didn't they fix it correctly?

We had our level up installed Oct 09 and have hardly used the trailer since but the system does not work properly. When you go to raise the front legs it drops violently for a second or so until the pressure builds up. I was promised a fix last fall, then this spring, and I have called daily to TSC in Goshen and Bob who has not returned calls. Finally Last week Rick at Lippert has promised to get me fixed this Sept. Bob originally said I needed a stronger pump and it was plumed on the wrong side. We have only used the system a few times but just love it Hope they get it fixed and our problems are behind us. Not the best customer service I have seen.
Regards

Wayne