Ladder rub

DC10-FE

Member
I'm not sure if this is a model specific problem or just a bad ladder design issue. After finally getting my 3010 back from the dealer, I went onto the roof to clean the 30+ days of dirt off when I noticed the left ladder rung was bottoming out on the roof. Upon closer examination, I noticed the rubber roof material was torn where the left rung met the roof.

Maybe some of the 3010 guys can chime in on this if they've had the same problem or if Mike Aplin from HL can let me know if this is an isolated problem or a trend with the ladders on the Cyclone or am I just the lucky one? If I'm just lucky, what do I need to do before the rainy season starts and this little rip in the roof creates a bigger problem.

I've attached some photos to show my dilemma. You'll be able to see what the ladder looks like with and without weight on the ladder. I weigh about 170 pounds, so I believe I'm not putting the ladder to any stress tests. I've only used the ladder about 5 times since I've had the trailer, so, I'm kind of at a loss for what avenue to take.

Thanks,
Scott
 

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Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
From what I can see, the simple quick fix would be to attach a 1" X 2" under the L-bracket at the top of the ladder. This would be a temporary fix. Eternabond would also be a permanent repair to the damaged roof area. I haven't looked closely at our ladder but maybe that top rung is movable? Raise it up an inch and solve the problem?
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Scott, is the ladder a removable type?? If not, then Ray's idea of a shim would work until a permanet solution is found.
 

DC10-FE

Member
I thought about the 1X2 or even a 1X1, It doesn't have to come up much, unfortunately, if I put anything under the L-bracket to move it up, the four side mounts will not align which would make the entire ladder useless.

I actually screwed up the description, it wasn't the rung that was rubbing the roof, it was the left rail. Moving the rung doesn't really help, besides, they have a hole drilled through the rail where the screw attaches the rail to the rung.

The problem really is with where the bend in the rail is on the left side. If the bend was a bit higher, that would be enough to get the rail off the roof. I think what it could also use is a metal plate about the size of a 1X2 mending plate attached to the roof where the rub is just to protect the wood roof under the rubber. Thanks for the ideas Ray.

It is removable Bob. I think if I re-drilled the lower mount holes and placed a spacer on the L-brackets at the top, I could move the whole ladder up an inch or so. I'm going to see what the factory says before I start drilling. If I put more holes in the aluminum, I'm afraid it may make the ladder weaker around the side mount area.
 
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Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Scott, do you know anyone with a big tubing bender ...or maybe just a little tweek.....very gently. Doesnt look like it would take very much to reshape the left tube. How about a piece of 1x4 under the bend at the rub spot and have someone just stand on the ladder. Worth a try.
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
I thought about the 1X2 or even a 1X1, It doesn't have to come up much, unfortunately, if I put anything under the L-bracket to move it up, the four side mounts will not align which would make the entire ladder useless.

It is removable Bob. I think if I re-drilled the lower mount holes and placed a spacer on the L-brackets at the top, I could move the whole ladder up an inch or so. I'm going to see what the factory says before I start drilling. If I put more holes in the aluminum, I'm afraid it may make the ladder weaker around the side mount area.
I think this sounds like the best solution. I didn't realize there are lower mounting brackets. I just assumed (I'm not a Cyclone owner) the ladder hung from the top rail. Hope all works out well. It seems like it should be a fairly easy fix.
 

DC10-FE

Member
Well, to add insult to injury, I went to pull the ladder down and heard this "tinking" noise, it sounds the same as small pieces of metal being dropped down a pipe. What the noise turned out to be was the friction nut plate that's jammed down the rails to connect the L-brackets, all the flared edges came off as did the L-bracket. Now I have a ladder that not only rubs the roof, but is now minus an L-bracket to hang over the roof bracket. Also, if anybody is wondering, I'm still waiting on ANY feedback from the factory on the ladder rub problem...
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Instead of waiting for factory feedback here I think you should call Heartland Customer Service for assistance. I am sure they can be of assistance. If you don't get help from the first person you talk to ask to speak to their supervisor.
 

Manke3010

Active Member
Please keep us updated on this Scott. I'd really like to go take a look at the roof of my 3010 to see if I'm getting the same rub, but I just had back surgery a week ago and probably won't be able to check for another week or so (4 weeks if you ask my wife!).
Just prior to surgery, I installed a slightly modified Winegard Carryout ladder mount on the fixed top arch rails you hook the L bracket to on the ladder.
I'm almost positive I would have noticed any rub as I'm up on the roof quite frequently.
I'm very interested in what the factory says about the ladder, as once I'm physically able to go camp again, every time we go out I'll be climbing up that ladder to place the Carryout on the mount. If those L brackets are a faulty design, someones gonna have a lawsuit on their hands if one of us falls due to the ladder unreasonably failing and giving out. I'm 205 lbs and I'm sure there are heavier people than me climbing up these ladders, it could get ugly real quick had you climbed up your ladder with the failed L bracket.

Best of luck.
 

gpshemi

Well-known member
I check my 2010 just for grins and I'm not anywhere close to the roof. I think mine must be an easy 3" away. So there's something fishy here.
 

DC10-FE

Member
Gps,
My right rail has plenty of clearance, about 3" also, but the left one is the rail that's rubbing. I haven't been able to do anything with it lately since I'm out of town for a couple of weeks. But, I think this is more of a model specific design flaw with the 3010 since the 3010 doesn't have the same roof as the other models. All the other models have a roof that is level from the front to the rear, whereas the 3010 (I believe the 2812 is the same) tapers down from about the bathroom to the rear. The taper is about a foot, my best guess, which is why the 3010 has only a 7 foot tall ramp as opposed to the other models which have 8 foot tall ramps.
 

gpshemi

Well-known member
Ah...I see now. I was thinking it wasn't installed close enough to the edge of the roof or something.
 

Manke3010

Active Member
Gps,
My right rail has plenty of clearance, about 3" also, but the left one is the rail that's rubbing. I haven't been able to do anything with it lately since I'm out of town for a couple of weeks. But, I think this is more of a model specific design flaw with the 3010 since the 3010 doesn't have the same roof as the other models. All the other models have a roof that is level from the front to the rear, whereas the 3010 (I believe the 2812 is the same) tapers down from about the bathroom to the rear. The taper is about a foot, my best guess, which is why the 3010 has only a 7 foot tall ramp as opposed to the other models which have 8 foot tall ramps.

Just out of curiosity, which side L bracket failed per your post a few days ago? The left side as well?
This could be far fetched, BUT, if it is also the left side, I'm wondering if there is a design flaw in the ladder in that the left side is slightly shorter than the right side, hence, causing both the failure in the left L bracket (more load stress on left side), and in turn possibly causing the factory "bow/arch" in the ladder to straighten out and as a result, move the ladder tube closer to the side of the roof edge causing the rub....?
 

Vtxkid

Well-known member
You got my curiousity up so I went out and measured mine... I have 1/2" clearence on the left side and 1 1/8" on the right side...
 

DC10-FE

Member
Just out of curiosity, which side L bracket failed per your post a few days ago? The left side as well?
This could be far fetched, BUT, if it is also the left side, I'm wondering if there is a design flaw in the ladder in that the left side is slightly shorter than the right side, hence, causing both the failure in the left L bracket (more load stress on left side), and in turn possibly causing the factory "bow/arch" in the ladder to straighten out and as a result, move the ladder tube closer to the side of the roof edge causing the rub....?

That's highly possible and the fix maybe as simple as getting a new ladder. The left rail is the one with all the problems. I have two days off when I get home on the 29th so I can check into it then. I still need to get the roof patched where it's ripped.
 

Manke3010

Active Member
I would certainly look into trying to get the roof repaired under warranty. It doesn't sound like any negligence has been involved here, and the trailer is almost brand new, so this ladder shouldn't have failed and caused this damage like it did.
I just disobeyed the Dr.'s rules and climbed a few steps up the ladder to measure, I'm just about where vtxkid is. About 1" on the right side, and 3/8" on the left side.

About 3-4 months into ownership, I did notice the top phillips head screw securing the L brackets were loose, so I tightened them, but since then, they haven't come loose and all is holding up fine.
Were your L brackets ever slighly loose, in that they could move a little left to right?
 
I picked up a new 2812 in Ohio last month and discovered the tear exactly as shown on the thumbnails as I spent the night on the dealer's lot. They took pics and kept the ladder to send to HL for redesign/replacement. Dealer put a temp Dicor/patch on tear. Couldn't bring myself to reject unit, cancel 6000 mile trip, etc.

Bad design. Disappointing. Factory and dealer should have caught this.

Bending and space won't work because of the four temp attachments on the side of unit for the bottom of the ladder.

Awaiting hopefully.
 

DC10-FE

Member
I'm not sure why the L-brackets were loose, but when I went to snug them up, I could hear all the pieces of metal holding the nut inside come off, so now I have to have this fixed as well. I talked to my "new" service dept. manager (different dealer) yesterday and he told me that I'm looking at a new roof membrane due to the tear. Hope to get it into him by the end of the week for the roof, ladder and the fraying material on the bench seats/bed in the garage. I'm getting the impression HL didn't put a lot of effort into this assembly. The attention to detail just wasn't there on this build from all the little things I keep coming across.
 

stsmark

Member
Definitely have to check my 2812, thanks for the heads up. Are any of you in Nor Cal and who are you using for service? Don't have any issues worth a dealer trip but I was wondering who in the area does Heartland warranty.

Thanks Mark
 
Yes, I have the same problem with my 2812. Heartland wants to replace the roof membrane instead of modifying the ladder. They are pretty nonchalant about the problem - the dealer and I are the ones stuck with the problem. I'm not too keen on whether our local dealer can replace the roof membrane and make it as good an installation as the factory (except for the tear that has been patched)..

Any experience with a new unit being torn apart to replace the roof membrane?

Other evidence of shoddy assembly include floor holes for the table legs not in the correct location, mixed up light switches in the main console... oh well, it beats a tent.
 
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