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View Full Version : A New Truck to pull my new Landmark?



jayc
02-27-2005, 09:26 PM
I know that I'm going to have to upgrade my truck to a one ton dually when I buy my "last truck and trailer". I'm seriously considering a Landmark and was wondering how well they are being pulled by you owners out there and what you're using. I would like to stick with something thats going to give me decent mileage, so I'd like to get the 3.73 rear end ratio if possible? Is anyone towing with one of these?

I know that none of the one tons available today will safely pull the Monticello and can't convince my wife to let me buy an MDT, although my grandsons would love riding in PePaw's Freightliner!

Thanks for any help you can give.

Tom of Ypsi
02-28-2005, 06:06 AM
jayc,

You do not need to get a MDT for the Monticello, all you would need is the F-450 or 550. Just get it all tricked out and you have the price of a MDT. You can get a pickup bed for them also at a much lesser cost.
I went with the 4:10 rear end because I will be towing all over the country. The 4:10 gives you that lower end torque that is needed for mountains and hills. The mileage is only 1-2 mpg difference. You could also go with the tow boss package with the Ford, that has a 4:30 rear and gives you that much more towing powerand I have heard another 1 mpg loss.
I also went with the dually because of the stability, the size of the trailer and weight we wanted and just wanted to make sure I have enough truck.

jayc
02-28-2005, 08:39 AM
Tom,

Thanks for the response. This is exactly what I am looking for, someone that pulls a Landmark so I can get real-world experience.

Like you said, once you outfit a Ford F-450/550 with the towing bed, and other bells and whistles, I would spend as much as I would on an MDT. I realize that there is still the option of buying a used HDT and converting it, but my wife wouldn't ride in it.

bcfast
03-15-2005, 06:19 PM
The big problem there is (and this will step on some toes), although the F450-550 is enough truck to pull the trailer, the engine will leave you less than thrilled. Buy an MDT with a Cummins in it...a straight-6, like a real truck. More power, more economy, less cost of operation, fewer moving parts. More than just my opinion: fact.

jayc
03-16-2005, 04:31 PM
I've got to agree with you on the reliability of the Cummins engine, but I really don't want an MDT (well I do) but the wife wants a regular pickup truck or maybe a pickup truck with a hauler bed. As you know, when Momma's not happy, then NOBODY's happy.

I have noticed the same problem with both the Ford F450-550 and the GM 4500-5500. They both have the same engine in them that comes in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck. It seems to me that while the 6.0 and 6.6 diesels are fine pullers in the smaller trucks, something a little larger and more powerful should be available as an option at least.

bcfast
03-16-2005, 06:51 PM
I see that you're from TX....try buying a Mexican Dodge!! They have a BIG ram down there...like an F550-650 only it looks like the Ram...just bigger!

See if you can talk the boss into an F650, that way you can get the 5.9 Cummins engine like the Dodge pickup. You can order any wheelbase you want and just slap a dually bed on it! How about air ride and air seats!? Sweet!! The GMC TopKicks etc are like big pickups, but the CAT 3126 will only go 300hp, and I never found anyone willing to 'improve' its performance. "Wont handle it" they said. Heck, I've never owned a Ram with so little power as only 300!! LOL Happy truck hunting.

GregH
03-18-2005, 05:57 PM
I just saw the Monticello at our local dealership and am ready to make it happen. We saw the Mount Rushmore about a month ago and waited until they received the Monticello to make our choice. My plan is to buy a Ford 350 Crew Cab 4x4 DRW with the TowBoss option (4.3 rear end). According to the literature it will handle over 18k pounds of fifth wheel.

We are moving up from a Coleman pop-up, so our fifth wheel experience is nil. With all the talk about huge trucks to pull the Monticello, can anyone give me advice if I am taking on too big of a rig without enough truck?

bcfast
03-18-2005, 09:59 PM
I fear you would be in big trouble with the Montecello, both physically and legally. The F350 is going to have a GVW of 18k. That means the truck + trailer + load = 18k. If the GVW printed on the sticker on the side of the trailer reads 18k, you're going to be stuck on the side of the road in Ohio, waiting for someone with a CDL to come and drive your rig to KY!! Im not kidding about that one, I know someone that got that treatment. From a safety standpoint, you'd be at the max limit of the truck....not good. Also, from a power standpoint, you'd be a right-lane obstacle on a hill with that little Powerstroke...also not fun. I haven't yet mentioned that combo's inability to stop. Go for an FL70 with air ride, air brakes, jake brake and a Cummins. Better still, for the safety of all others on the road (since you said you dont have the 5er experience), go thru the training and get your CDL license. You'll be a better driver with or without the rig! Congrats on your choice of coach...I'm green with envy!

Brian

dwangler
04-12-2005, 03:35 PM
I beg to disagree with you bc, but the GCWR for the F-350 is well over 18k, in fact staight from the owners manual is 23500lbs. I own an 05 F-250 SD 6.0L Powerstroke and its GVWR is 23000 which should be well within the requirements necessary to pull any of the Landmark Models which none of GVWR exceeds 16000. I currently pull a Hitchiker at a loaded weight of roughly 13000 with my Ford F 250, granted I have added a Banks 6 Gun Bundle which includes their Monster Exhaust, and because I also have a 60 gall Aux Tank I have added Air Bags. With the integrated brake controller, it pulls wonderfully and I get around 15 mpg, at normal highway speeds.

Tom of Ypsi
04-13-2005, 05:27 AM
dwangler, with the Landmarks brochure in front of me I do have to disagree with your GVWR on the Monticello. The brochure shows 18,000 lbs with estimated dry weight of 12,900 and estimated hitch weight of 2,400. I would go with something bigger than a 1 ton for the Monticello just to be on the safe side.

jayc
04-13-2005, 07:33 AM
We looked a Chevy Kodiak 4500 over the weenend. The truck is pretty well equipped mechanically, but the wife didn't like the big step to climb up into the truck. I explained to her that different aftermarket companies can put different steps on the truck, making it easier for her to get in.

I'm going to look at the Chevy website to see the towing limits of this truck with different axle ratios to see if I can still pull the Landmark with a higher rear end, maybe a 4.30 like the Ford Tow Boss?

nemo45
04-13-2005, 08:24 AM
Guys,

Let me into to this forray. You are not talking about the same thing with GCWR and GVWR. The GCWR would be the total weight of the truck and the unit being towed or Groos Combined Weight Rating. The GVWR is the weight of the truck and anything in it, passengers, fuel etc. including the pin weight or hitch weight of the towed vehicle or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. For instance I have a new 3500 Dodge Ram Quad Cab CTD SRW, it has a GVWR of 9900# which means the total weight of the vehicle can be 9900# loaded including pin weight of the unit towed. It has a towing capacity of 14250# and a GCWR of 21000# because I have a 3.73 rear end. If it was a 4.10 rear end its 16250# and 23000# respectively. As you can see you cannot tow 18000# with either of these vehicles. But I don't see how a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 12900# could get that heavy loaded. Even if you add 2500#, its 15400#. You also have to worry about the pin weight so you don't exceed the GVWR. I know you're interested in Fords here, just using the Dodge as an example. I see by my signature that I should add I traded my Hemi and the new truck just came in last Saturday.

jayc
04-13-2005, 03:05 PM
Guys,

Let me into to this forray. You are not talking about the same thing with GCWR and GVWR. The GCWR would be the total weight of the truck and the unit being towed or Groos Combined Weight Rating. The GVWR is the weight of the truck and anything in it, passengers, fuel etc. including the pin weight or hitch weight of the towed vehicle or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. For instance I have a new 3500 Dodge Ram Quad Cab CTD SRW, it has a GVWR of 9900# which means the total weight of the vehicle can be 9900# loaded including pin weight of the unit towed. It has a towing capacity of 14250# and a GCWR of 21000# because I have a 3.73 rear end. If it was a 4.10 rear end its 16250# and 23000# respectively. As you can see you cannot tow 18000# with either of these vehicles. But I don't see how a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 12900# could get that heavy loaded. Even if you add 2500#, its 15400#. You also have to worry about the pin weight so you don't exceed the GVWR. I know you're interested in Fords here, just using the Dodge as an example. I see by my signature that I should add I traded my Hemi and the new truck just came in last Saturday.
You are exactly right, and this is where the confusion begins. Do the math on this, if you take your truck, load the truck to it's limit of 9900#, subtract that from the 21,000#, leaving a difference of 11,100#. What happened to 14,250? Do we go by GCWR or towing capacity? This is true of all truck manufacturers, so like you, I'm not singling out any one make.

Thanks for the input.

nemo45
04-13-2005, 04:11 PM
The weight is in the pinweight or part of the payload, which is part of the 9900# GVWR which you are, I suppose, hauling not actually towing, but is included in the towing capacity.

Gary F
04-13-2005, 07:41 PM
Most if not all truck manufactures list higher then average payload capacities. You must read the fine print however. The truck they reference usually a two wheel drive, manual trans regular cab with very few options. A light tow vehicle can provide more payload.

By the time you add all the bells and whistles including heavier diesel motor and 4WD drive train along with the crew cab or extended cab, you eat up the available payload and bump up against the GVW.



Make sense?

jayc
04-13-2005, 08:22 PM
Your explanation makes sense Gary, but what doesn't make sense is the manufacturers being so sleazy that they deceive the public when they are only trying to buy a truck that is heavy enough or will tow enough to get them and their trailer safely down the road.


Maybe some lawyer somewhere will see these threads and file a class action lawsuit against all of the "Big Three" automakers. Maybe the loss of massive amounts of money will make them see the light, but I really don't think so. We should all be very angry for the possibly dangerous rigs that are out there right now, running around overloaded when the buyers believed what they were told by the salesmen and the factories.

Gary F
04-13-2005, 08:41 PM
I fully agree - Buyer beware. This is why i went from a crew cab F250 to a C/C F350. I didn't do my homework correctly (GVW).
My traded F250 C/C 4WD had a GVW of 8800#. Truck weight with just me and full load of fuel was 7450# which left me with avail payload of 1300# :eek:

My single wheel F350 has a 9900# GVW which allows me some breathing room for cargo or 2300# fiver pin weight.

GregH
04-13-2005, 10:22 PM
There is a good publication on the Ford website called "Things To Know About Weights" which I found quite informative. Taking the publication and sitting with my local Landmark dealer, we figured out the alternatives. In the end, we have moved away from the Monticello and have focused on the Mount Rushmore. I have just purchased my truck and with a GVWR of 11,500, payload of 4,000, GCWR of 23,000, and 15,400 maximum loaded trailer weight, I should not have a problem towing the Mount Rushmore with a dry weight of 12,800 and a hitch weight of 2,400.

Tom of Ypsi
04-14-2005, 06:22 AM
Congratulations, Nice truck. Have not had any problems with mine at all wish I could say the same about my trailer.

nemo45
04-14-2005, 08:10 AM
Most if not all truck manufactures list higher then average payload capacities. You must read the fine print however. The truck they reference usually a two wheel drive, manual trans regular cab with very few options. A light tow vehicle can provide more payload.

By the time you add all the bells and whistles including heavier diesel motor and 4WD drive train along with the crew cab or extended cab, you eat up the available payload and bump up against the GVW.



Make sense?



Gary,
It does make sense, except that in Dodges towing guide which is on their website you can add those things in before it figures the payload, GVWR and GCWR. There must be a way to do it for Ford and Chevy also. I won't go by advertisements and fliers or salesmen for that matter. Its best to do the research yourself.

James
05-29-2005, 11:42 AM
Hi, everyone new to Heartland rvs old to 5ver and tag. I currently have a 2005 F350 Kings Ranch CC LB DRW 6.0 Diesel 4.10 automatic, towing guide allows me to tow 16,100 lbs, same truck with 4.30 gears will allow to tow 18,600 lbs. Check www.ford.com (http://www.ford.com/) site for towing or www.trailerlife.com (http://www.trailerlife.com/) all towing capabilities. If I gross my Mt. Rushmore out at 16,000 lbs I will still be 100 lbs less than max allowable. Dry weight on Mt Rushmore 12,800 lbs plus options weight, well under max allowable.

BluegrassMan
05-31-2005, 06:51 PM
Hi Guys:

I didn't know that states were checking weights on 5th wheel rigs. As far as I know they aren't in Pa,Md,De, WVA. I haven't heard a word about it (YET). I figure it's coming sometime. As to putting a pickup bed on a 450-550. Wont work without some modifications, the chassis is wider that a 350. Around here, they are putting fontaine beds on the chassis cab truck.

That all being said , I have a HD2500 Ram V-10. 3:54 GEARS. I just traded a 37ft. Sea Breeze triple axel, triple slide in on my Landmark Grand Canyon. I beleive that the Landmark tows alittle better with the 4 tires and the high pressures in them, I know for sure it turns sharp much better. I have Air Lift bags on the back, it keeps the weight off the springs and rides like a Caddy.

The Seabreeze had a dry wt. of 13K and a Gross of about 18K the Grand Canyon said it was 12,500 with Granite it would be back up to what I had before. But REALLY are we ever going to carry 5000 lbs of stuff ???? I don't think I own that much stuff. Just my $.02 worth:eek:

BigBlue
06-01-2005, 06:35 PM
Another vehicle to consider is the Chevrolet Kodiak. I'm towing my Monticello with a C4500 with a Monroe VersHauler Bed. I've got the 8.1 L gas engine with Alleson 1000 transmission. Rear end is 5.13. I'm getting 7 mpg whether I'm pullilng or not. We got the crew cab and love the space.
Jim

jbeletti
06-01-2005, 08:28 PM
Jim (BigBlue),

Do you have any pictures posted of your truck and trailer. I'd like to that truck of yours - it really sounds nice.

Jim

BigBlue
06-02-2005, 08:13 AM
Jim
You can see it on our journal web site: http://goodsamclub.mytripjournal.com/jimandpats_adventure
Check the entry for Union
Jim

jbeletti
06-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Jim,

Thanks for the link. Big Blue is, big! But I am certain it's just what you need to pull the Monticello. I hope we can cross paths one day as we're sort of close. When you were in Union, IL, you were a few miles from my Landmark at Lehman's on Harmony Road.

I see you are now in Utica, IL. We love that area. It's actually the first place we camped (in a rented pop-up in Oct. of 2003) and got bitten by the camping bug and bought our first trailer (a TrailManor) after we left. We stayed at the state park campground at Starved Rock.

Best of luck with Jessica's wedding and maybe see you on the road one day!

Jim

jayc
06-02-2005, 03:36 PM
The Kodiak truck that I looked at was very similar to yours, only it was white. My wife says that she will have a problem stepping onto the running board because it is so high. Still working on a plan to fix this problem.


I don't think I'll order one with the 5.13 gears, I want a little better than 7 MPG! I'm hoping a good used Freightliner will be available when I'm ready to buy. I have a friend in the used car business, so when the time comes, I'll go to some auctions with him to see whats there.

BigBlue
06-02-2005, 04:21 PM
At the time I ordered mine in 2003, the only gear ratio they offered was 5.13. I wanted something else but after 3 calls to the factory talking to the engineers I gave up.
Yes the steps are high. My wife would like another step that comes out below. I've seen some for RVs and will investigate them to see if they'll work.
Jim

BigBlue
06-02-2005, 04:26 PM
Jim
You've got a very nice web site. Hope ours will look that good evenually.
The parks here at Starved Rock are awesome. We've been hiking through them and really enjoyed it.
It would be nice if we run into each other someday and can compare notes
Jim

jbeletti
06-02-2005, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the kind words Jim (BigBlue).

I keep my travel plan online (http://www.beletti.com/travel/) - pretty updated. Let me know if you see any dates that we'll be close by.

Jim

bking
06-08-2005, 03:39 PM
We just agreed with a dealer on a new Golden Gate. Should be here is 6 weeks according to dealer. He has promise from factory that it will be. We have an '05 Ford F250 diesel 4X4 extended cab short bed truck. It has all the towing options Ford offers.

jbeletti
06-08-2005, 03:53 PM
bking,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Landmark Golden Gate order! And a nice new F250 to go along with it all - you have a lot to smile about.

We look forward to learning more about you and your "stuff" and hope to see you contribute and take good information away from this forum.

Take care,

Jim

ruger
02-05-2006, 03:38 PM
The tow boss is rated at 26000# GCWR.

Cooper
02-06-2006, 10:43 AM
I have 2006 Land Mark Golden Gate I pull it with a 2006 F250 4X4 Crew Cab. The trucks pulls the trailer great. I have pulled it about 15,000 miles no problems on any grade from Tx to TENN or any type stopping situation. I think most of you guys have a BIG TRUCK fedish.

Princess Kathleen
03-06-2006, 07:36 PM
Hi
Just had to brag....we ordered our Ford 350 diesel DRW 4:10 4X4 privacy glass....chrome...bells....and whistles....:D
Only 13 more working days....
New grand baby coming first of April in Montreal....
Grand Canyon...due end of April in Knoxville
Rally....first of JUne....

And still need to purge...yard sale....:eek: send the cat off to my daughter..None

TY
Princess Kathleen

BluegrassMan
03-07-2006, 07:23 PM
Hi PrincessK:
Congrats on 13 days to go. I hope your GC arrives Perfect. We love ours. I just wish we had all the time to enjoy it. I have a 30 yr and out plan where I work. I'll have 38 years in by Sept. I'm still just 55. If I didn't spend my money on New RV's I would be retired :eek: . Working for the man, you never make a killing. BUT you can get some nice toys:rolleyes:

shutterbugtodd
03-09-2006, 07:16 PM
I own the mt rushmore, and I'm pulling it with a 05, dodge with the cummins diesel, im using the 373 gear rato without a problem, its rated to pull 18,000 lbs. the only thing i did change was putting air bags under the rear axle to keep it totally level. I have pulled it for several thousand miles, getting 13 mpg. My last 5th wheel was a titanium, by glendale, which is supposedly great for pulling and is 4,000 pounds less than my landmark, I get better milage with the landmark.

jbeletti
03-09-2006, 07:53 PM
shutterbugtodd,

Welcome to the forum.

Were you pulling your Titanium with the same truck?

Maybe that Heartland front cap is really as aerodynamic as advertised!

Take care,

Jim

Tom of Ypsi
03-09-2006, 09:26 PM
Shutterbugtodd, What model Titanium did you have? We had a 28E33SB never in the shop, towed with a F-350, CC, 3:73 rear, sb and got 14.5 towing. I would get 22.5 to 23.5 mpg empty but I had a programmer. With my setup now, see sig, I am getting 10.5 to 11.3 towing and 15 to 17.5 not towing.

Trap
04-19-2006, 08:02 PM
Tom the F-550 with the 4.88 gears will tow way better than a F-350 Dually. Milage running down the highway empty won't be great. We're looking at upgrading to the Tow Boss later this year, cause we're looking at the Bighorn 3400RL. While the Tow Boss may work for the Monticello I agree that a little more truck would be better, especially if your Towing a lot.

Trap

Tom of Ypsi
04-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Trap,
I agree, more truck is better for towing and if I had my way I would have a Freightliner or something similar. One problem with getting a Freightliner is I am married and the wife will not ride in a truck that you need a step ladder to get into. When I bought my truck the tow-boss package was not out yet. I will be waiting to see how the new 07 Fords with the new engine do. I will wait at least a year before commiting to the new design and engine just to see how it is.