floor and roof "thick" insulation

I can't seem to get a straight answer as to how thick inches and r value the floor and ceiling insulation are. The R-17 foil insulation you show for the floor is only considered that when you add air space. To my knowledge the foil faced bubblewrap is only rated as 4 by itself. I like the floor plan but am deeply disappointed as to the cold weather abilities of this 3400RL. On your site and from the coments by scott and others you don't seem to represent this as a cold weather unit. However the dealer sold this to me as THE 4 seasons trailer. Hard to believe with the low point drains hanging down 18" with valves at the end.

The Bighorn is absolutely what this industry refers to as a "four season" coach. It not only has an enclosed underbelly, but it is heated from the furnace and insulated with the foil/bubble/foil Flex Foil (R-17) product. Our walls feature inch and a half polystyrene insulation, two layers of luan, interior wall board and exterior fiberglass for an R-10 value. The floor features a blanket layer of R-7 fiberglass insulatin, while the roof has two layers for an R-14 insulation value.
MORE IMPORTANTLY: We recently had the Bighorn tested in the Dometic extreme temperature chamber where they set the temperature at zero degrees for 24 hours. During this testing, our unit performed wonderfully, with temperatures in the low 70s recorded in the living room; kitchen and bedroom areas. Look for photos of this and more information on the web site soon.
IF - you are experiencing troubles keeping your coach warn or cold, we will work with you to address those issues so that you can get the most out your coach in uncomfortable conditions. We really do have a good track record of keeping people warm and cool when each part of the system is working as it should. It sounds like there is a problem somewhere with your coach and I am very confident that we can and will adress it for you.

ST

Scott Thanks for your reply. I will say that as disappointed with some of the systems in this coach as I am, your willingness to address issues is comforting.
I AM having problems keeping this coach warm. Recently at 12 degrees ambient temp with little or no wind the furnace would run for 40-45 minutes shut off for 20 and resume for 40-45 minutes repeating that process until outside air got warmer. In three days I went thru 14 gals of propane keeping the inside at 65 degrees. This was after applying R-17 to the back windows and all the roof vents. With a very accurate thermometer I could watch the temp decline by the minute.
Also you did not address my query as to the low point drains hanging down with the vavles attached to the ends. The same problem exists with the drain on the water tank. Thank you for your attention to my problem. Jeff

During the test in the Dometic chamber, the furnace ran constantly without problems. Yours is cycling, so something is up with either the furnace or the thermostat - the dealer can help figure that out.
Regarding the tanks and drains. The dump valves for the tanks are located inside the underbelly where it is heated. I don't know that there is any way to keep the last ten feet of so of the tubes inside there. The thought being that any dumping would flow through that last portion of the tube without freezing before it reached the end.
I'm going to tell you the same thing about the low point drains. These are only used to completely empty the water system - which has to be lower than the heated and enclosed underbelly - very typical in fifth wheels.
ST

jeff howe said:

Scott Thanks for your reply. I will say that as disappointed with some of the systems in this coach as I am, your willingness to address issues is comforting.
I AM having problems keeping this coach warm. Recently at 12 degrees ambient temp with little or no wind the furnace would run for 40-45 minutes shut off for 20 and resume for 40-45 minutes repeating that process until outside air got warmer. In three days I went thru 14 gals of propane keeping the inside at 65 degrees. This was after applying R-17 to the back windows and all the roof vents. With a very accurate thermometer I could watch the temp decline by the minute.
Also you did not address my query as to the low point drains hanging down with the vavles attached to the ends. The same problem exists with the drain on the water tank. Thank you for your attention to my problem. Jeff

Click to expand...

Jeff,
We've been wintering in the Texas panhandle and it's been colder than normal. We've added extra insulation throughout the rig - rolled and rigid insulation in the ceiling vents, covers on the ceiling AC vents, rolled insulation under the kitchen slide just behind the seal, rolled insulation between the floor joists in the basement, and split foam pipe insulation on the edges of the closet doors. We also have heat tape and insulation on our fresh water line. With all this, we've still had problems with freezing water and sewer. I finally figured out that I needed to leave cabinet doors open under the sinks so heat could get at the incoming lines. During one period of single digit temps at night, I left the water trickling from the kitchen sink at night (gray valves open). Even though the sewer line was sloped properly, the water started freezing and eventually filled the entire sewer hose with ice. Had to toss it all and buy new. I was unable to close the valves because the ice was backed up into the underbelly. As far as inside temps go, we stayed fairly comfortable while sleeping. We set the furnace at 62-63, closed the pocket door between kitchen and bedroom, opened the bathroom door wide to get heat from that register, and used a small ceramic heater in the bedroom. During the day, the furnace would run almost continuously. The cold temps outside were usually accompanied by winds of 20-30 mph.
Maybe I misunderstood when buying this rig, but I never thought it was rated for 4 seasons and I never expected it to be.

Scott That is my point entirely. The furnace in a well insulated coach should not have to run constantly. I just traded in an 05 jayco jay flight 28' FKS with the 14' slide that under similar, if not colder conditions, this winter the furnace would run only 15 minutes at a time to maintain the temp. I reason for purchaseing the bighorn was to elimate problems with pipe freeze-up that the jayco was not designed for, heated underbelly, exposed low point drains etc. The low point drains for the hot and cold water lines weren't even disclosed to me. I just happened to see them hanging down. I have many years of experience with other brands in similar weather conditions without costing a small fortune to heat.
I just found another problem trying to drain the grey water tank the cable is apparently unhooked underneath so now have to find and repair that. Currently high wind conditions and getting colder yeah. I never had any problems with my jayco.You have some great floorplans, but to spend 60 grand and have to repair a drain valve is b.s. Jeff

Spending a month is AZ during a cold snap we found that keeping the day/night shades helped more from the temps dropping so fast inside. We have the dual panes. After that month I came to the conclusion that is why they put wheels on these things, to follow the sun. Not sure I would want to go full time in ours.

I'm not sure any of there rigs are really designed to be comfortable in "artic temps" but I will say that my 3055 has been much more comfortable than the Winnebago motor coach that I had previously. I have spent many nights recently with temps in the 20's and was as comfortable as could be expected. Of course, I had the fireplace and electric space heater in the bedroom; but the furnace did not run a great deal. One word to the wise though......make sure the grey water valves are open if you are going to trickle water all night. I found out the hard way that a trickle can fill a tank over night!

Thanks for all the tips folks. This unit doesn't have the double pane windows. That's one thing I may have to look into. I had and older king of the road I spent several winters in without skirting and did quite well. So thought with newer technology.... I can't really follow the sun as I'm living in this while remodeling houses here in spokane. Probably redo the underside to put more insulation under there. Can see the ground below where the heat is ducted for the belly. Also, as some of you have already done, probably go thru the whole unit and ad insulation where possible. Will have to rig up some way of installing low point drain valves inside somewhere instead of next to the ground.

I recieved my new 3055RL last week and have made a few modifications. One was the tent in the A/C unit which worked very well, another was checking for heater operation. I found the following items that I fixed today.
1. the fittings in the heater housing leak a lot of air, so I used tape to seal the metal fittings.
2. I found that the metal canisters had cracks and weren't taped very well to the floor. I saped all the cracks and sealed the leaks.
3. I also found that the flexable duct lines come out of a hole about 14" by 12". since the return air is not ducted to the heater like a home unit it sucks air with the least resistance to air flow. So as is was when the heater was running it was sucking air from the storage compartment. I put some smoke into the storage compartment to check this out and sure enough it sucked it right into the heater. I cut some ply wood and sealed up this area and now the return air grill has much better air flow and the heater is not trying to heat cold air.
Mark

M Hamilton Thanks for your imput. I have a call into the factory as of last week to see exactly how the furnace is ducted. According to my specs for install it calls for 55 sq in of free air to feed the cold air return. The hole they have isn't big enough. I think about taking what you did and going a step further and constructing a duct to feed the cold air return directly from the coach inside to the furnace. I think a lot of heat is being lost this way. The laundry storage area keeps my dirty clothes quite warm so in their attempt to heat the under belly a lot of excess heat is being diverted to the storage area. Jeff