AutoLevel Failure - Part 2

PSF513

Well-known member
I have had my 2011 BH since June, 2010. On my first out of town trip, the brain fired in the AutoLevel system. Lippert was very helpful getting me back on the road and ultimately replaced the brain.

Last Sunday, I was adjusting my hitch to better level out the BH ride (it was a little nose down previously). After completing the adjustment, I thought I would try it out to see. I plugged in the land line to be sure there was sufficient power and proceeded to power up the AutoLevel. Much to my chagrin, the landing gear would not respond (either in Manual or AutoLevel). I shut everything down on 3 occasions and still no response on powering up. However, same as before, all my slides were working fine.

I have contacted my dealer and Lippert. To date, no response. Has anyone else had similar issues? This time around, the BH had set since Sept 20 as I had to have shoulder surgery.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Here's the thread on my experience a few months ago. It hasn't happened again.

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/19640-Hydraulics-Failure-landing-jacks-and-slides-all-failed
 

dglatta

Active Member
I feel your pain, Pete. We have had a variety of problems with our 2011 Landmark's leveling system. We had a leg stick half way up last summer and had to remove it and cap the lines (I know nothing about hydrolics but learned). Lippert replaced the leg, the brain and put in a different control panel. I have only had the system work perfectly about twice in about 20 setups.

In addition, we are really frustrated with what we have been calling "The Lippert Alarm Clock". Anytime the trailer has been set up for a few days and the temperatures outside change, the stabilizer legs make a click sound that is audible outside (Neighbors in nearby campsites have commented on my "talking" trailer) but sounds like a "BOOM" inside as the frame acts as a giant tuning fork. The trailer shifts slightly but stays level. I assume the hydrolics are expanding and contracting with the temp. change. It's frustrating because I'm not sure a repair shop would be able to recreate the problem without living in it for awhile.

We are currently wintering in Texas and the click is with us again. When we arrived, the rear stabilizers would not go down on their own and the control panel said the hydrolic legs are up even though the rig is leveled. I can work around all this stuff but it is frustrating. I suspect that because the system is so new, very few repair shops know how to work on these kinds of problems. I'm hoping that the techs at the rally in Goshen can help with these issues...
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
dglatta...I have one of the original Level-Up systems, the predecessor to the systems now used on Heartland products. Up until this past fall I was experiencing the same "popping" sounds you are having...I finally found the issue and the solution.

My "popping" noises we're always on the side which was extended the furtherest, and usually happened the most when on our lot here in Mission, TX, which deliberately slopes to the off-door side to eliminate water settling...while here it would constantly pop, especially when the temps rose. I noticed this past summer while traveling it did some, but no where as much as here. After getting back here in October it started up again with a vengence...after thinking about it I realized that while on the road the majority of the time we were on grass, gravel, etc., and since I didn't want the legs sinking in soft ground, I put pieces of 4x4 under each leg....not so on our nice concrete lot here.

I wondered is this the issue, are the rams extended just a little too far on the off-door side, causing a slightly different "pitch", and thus more pressure?? I took the trailer off the leveling system, put 4x4's under each leg on the off door side...and guess what...IT'S NOT MADE ANOTHER SOUND SINCE OCTOBER!!! Give it a try...can't hurt...would have never thought it could be that simple, but it was!!
 

dglatta

Active Member
Thanks, Ken! I hope it's that simple. I kind of think we must have the same system you have since our 2011 was built in Dec. 09. There is a "compensator" on the hydrolic manifold that Lippert engineered out of later versions. One of the guys from Lippert suggested we disconnect the power from the compensator but we did not find any difference in the clicking.
We are currently parked on concrete (and were most of last summer too) but we have had it click on gravel/grass sites as well. If it ever warms up here I'll give it a try! Thanks, again!
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
I'd tried everything too...never talked with Lippert, ours was installed by Trailair. Ours is the six-legged system, we have four legs surrounding the axles, and then the hydraulic landing gear up front.

I actually had Dale Fenton (inventer of Trailair) out here last winter, and even he couldn't figure out what was happening. I really thought we would have to live with it, but the noise became so irritating, it actually would wake me at night...had to find a solution...I guess that's why the engineers couldn't figure it out...they were thinking way above the problem, not looking at it directly! Sometimes you've got to look for the simplest answer, not the most complicated.
 

DougS

Doug S
Dave wrote,

"In addition, we are really frustrated with what we have been calling "The Lippert Alarm Clock". Anytime the trailer has been set up for a few days and the temperatures outside change, the stabilizer legs make a click sound that is audible outside (Neighbors in nearby campsites have commented on my "talking" trailer) but sounds like a "BOOM" inside as the frame acts as a giant tuning fork. The trailer shifts slightly but stays level. I assume the hydrolics are expanding and contracting with the temp. change. It's frustrating because I'm not sure a repair shop would be able to recreate the problem without living in it for awhile."

I have a 2011 Landmark with the alarm clock bang also. I used a spray on the pod at the bottom of the leg and sound stopped. I have bought a nylon washer to try to the bottom, but have not jacked up the front to try it out, waiting for the next trip. Not sure if the washer will work, but I think the metal to metal is what makes the sound. Not sure if it is the same sound you have, but some spray (soaking) can't hurt.
 

PSF513

Well-known member
DAVE & KATHI: I too am hoping for tech help in Goshen. Problem is my warranty will be over by 5 days. If you look on the forum under PLUMBING (no idea why) you will find HYDRAULICS. When this occured the first time, a Lippert service tech spent 2,5 hours on the phone with me going through the manual bypass process for the leveling system. I posted these step-by-step instructions with pics. Hope your alarm clock calms down. I suspect air in your lines which means you will need to run your slides in and out several times each from rear to front to move air to the fluid reservoir.

Good luck!
 

dglatta

Active Member
Thanks for all the great replies and suggestions! Today in Texas it never got above the lower 20's. Guess what? No banging/clicking!

Doug, tell me more about the nylon washer...Does it go under the pad? Our warranty is up in April so we too are worried about the (hopeful) fix in Goshen.

Thanks again, everyone!

Dave
 

DougS

Doug S
Dave,
My banging or the "Lippert Alarm Clock", comes from the front legs. I had a Lippert tech work on the RV axles, and while there, we both determined it was coming from the pad bolted on the bottom of the legs. The RV was jacked up and soaked in lube spray, banging stopped for next two trips. At home here, it just started again, more spray has lessened the banging.
The pad is bolted on, so my thought is, remove the bolt and insert a nylon washer on top of the pad and bolt it back on. I was able to find a washer at ACE Hardware that I hope works. If it does not work, it was just a couple of dollars invested. I'll try to get to it and let you know if it works.
 

DougS

Doug S
Dave,

Reference to the ticking or banging, I guess some call the "Lippert Alarm Clock." I went out to my unit today and with no one in the RV, it was ticking away. I jacked up the front to install a nylon washer and what I found were two rubber O rings together, and one of them was very badly ripped on each side. I added the nylon washer (which I do not think will help) and soaked washers and re-installed. You can only make it so tight because the piston begins to move. On the curb side, which is where most of my ticking comes from, the O ring was really bad so I moved them around. Since the pods have to move with the different terrains, the bolt is 3/4 inch and the hole in the foot of the pod is closer to 1 inch. I believe when the O rings are whole, they cushion metal to metal when they are crushed from the bolt being tightened. It was late in the day so I just put it back together, tomorrow I'll try to get new O rings, ACE should have them, (I should own stock).

Bottom line, ticking stopped with what I did, I think I'll buy several O rings and make that part of my annual service. I did try the auto level and it worked fine. I did exercise them and sprayed the legs since it had been sitting. I also sprayed the electric stablizers since I found they do not work right if not sprayed.

In the picture, the white washer is what I added. You can see the damaged O ring, and that is the better of both side. I believe the damaged O ring was next to the bottom of the piston. The picture shows the pod upside down, the rusty part is what sits in the ground.
 

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porthole

Retired
Pete - do you have the battery in? I found that mine don't work with the trailer plugged in and the battery not installed.
 

boatto5er

Founding VA Chap Ldr (Ret)
Dave,

Reference to the ticking or banging, I guess some call the "Lippert Alarm Clock." I went out to my unit today and with no one in the RV, it was ticking away. I jacked up the front to install a nylon washer and what I found were two rubber O rings together, and one of them was very badly ripped on each side. I added the nylon washer (which I do not think will help) and soaked washers and re-installed. You can only make it so tight because the piston begins to move. On the curb side, which is where most of my ticking comes from, the O ring was really bad so I moved them around. Since the pods have to move with the different terrains, the bolt is 3/4 inch and the hole in the foot of the pod is closer to 1 inch. I believe when the O rings are whole, they cushion metal to metal when they are crushed from the bolt being tightened. It was late in the day so I just put it back together, tomorrow I'll try to get new O rings, ACE should have them, (I should own stock).

Bottom line, ticking stopped with what I did, I think I'll buy several O rings and make that part of my annual service. I did try the auto level and it worked fine. I did exercise them and sprayed the legs since it had been sitting. I also sprayed the electric stablizers since I found they do not work right if not sprayed.

In the picture, the white washer is what I added. You can see the damaged O ring, and that is the better of both side. I believe the damaged O ring was next to the bottom of the piston. The picture shows the pod upside down, the rusty part is what sits in the ground.

I can see why the rubber O-rings would crush and tear. They are right up against the metal and probably take a beating from the pad moving to match the terrain, also get stretched when the bolt is tightened. I wonder if it would be helpful to put a plastic/teflon washer above the O-rings so they are not in direct contact with the metal pad?
 

PSF513

Well-known member
PORTHOLE: Yes, I had the battery in and connected. I have never tried the hydraulics without the battery connected
 

Willym

Well-known member
Thanks for providing this information Doug. I also have this noise, as does my neighbour on his Augusta here in Texas. If the noise is coming from the contact point between the bottom of the piston and and foot pad, then do we not need to lubricate that area rather than the area between the bolt head and the bottom of the foot? The O rings/nylon washer in your photos appear to be installed under the foot and only see force when the bolt is torqued up. Maybe the noise is from there, but I'm going to try putting some "Moovit" in the upper area. The bottom area is not accessible right now anyway.
 

DougS

Doug S
Bill,
Try this link. I started a new thread on this noise. Check the O-Rings by un-screwing the bolt at the bottom of the pod/foot. If rings are damaged, or out of place, they might be creating the noise. Replaced mine 2 weeks ago, no sound.
I called and emailed Lippert picture and I now have replacements and will replace the ones I made.

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/22293-Hydraulic-landing-gear-noise-clang-bang-click

If this link does not work, do a search for the word "bang".
 

Willym

Well-known member
Thanks Doug, I replied to that thread.
Bill,
Try this link. I started a new thread on this noise. Check the O-Rings by un-screwing the bolt at the bottom of the pod/foot. If rings are damaged, or out of place, they might be creating the noise. Replaced mine 2 weeks ago, no sound.
I called and emailed Lippert picture and I now have replacements and will replace the ones I made.

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/22293-Hydraulic-landing-gear-noise-clang-bang-click

If this link does not work, do a search for the word "bang".
 

KiwiRVer

Active Member
We are currently experiencing the "Lippert Alarm Clock" effect. Our Big Country is now 2 weeks old and it started the first night. We have had the odd night since when we have not been woken by it but in general it has kept us awake most nights.

I rang Lippert who weren't the most helpful. their suggestion was that it was air in the hydraulics however I have fully purged the system twice according to their instructions with absolutely no sign of bubbles in the oil. I have also taken someone elses advice and put silicon cutting boards under the landing legs but they do now appear to have made any difference.

I have seen the advice to lubricate the bottom plate (which I have done with no noticeable effect) and to add silicon/rubber washers (which I have not done yet) but it is clear that the expansion/contraction is occurring in the cylinder and putting a finger right at the interface between the leg and the cylinder makes this obvious. The sound does not appear to be coming from the bottom plate.

We have just attended the HOC rally in Sefner, FL where several people had the same system and none of them have this problem.

We are nearing our wits end with this. It is a brand new unit and this is spoiling our enjoyment of it. This is our home for six months and we do not have an alternative. Tomorrow I will be calling Lippert (again) and this time I am going to the top.

I would welcome any additional suggestions.

Thanks
Craig
 

DougS

Doug S
Craig,
Try the orange square pads that are waffled on one side, they seem to work. I tried cutting boards, but after awhile the rust from the metal pods get on them they don't seem to slip. I always use the waffle side facing up on a piece of 3/4 plywood.
 

KiwiRVer

Active Member
Thanks Doug but our symptoms lead me to believe the problem is in the hydraulic system. It is not just an issue of legs "settling" as the clunking goes on all night every night on a regular cycle which leads me to believe there is a very slow leak in one of the internal valves. If it were just a matter of legs spreading on a hard surface then everyone would suffer from the problem but at the Rally we were the only ones who appeared to be suffering this problem. I have sent a detailed letter to Lippert and am awaiting a response. I will let everyone know what that is.
 
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