Freeze issue.

peanutman

Member
was going to use my on board water due to ext bib in park is frozen. This morning if i worked my pump on and off i could get flow. but after 20 mins it would freeze up again. When it worked it i could get water to all locations. Now pump will run but line is frozen some where.
I pulled bay panel off today trying to find the problem. What i found ****ed me off. Heartlands idea of a insulated underbelly is corragated plastic backed with silver bubble wrap. I found two lines that are the possible problems. First what is confusing is red and blue lines connected together. I have one line coming from the pump demand side going to what i believe is the fresh water tank cause the gravity feed runs that way. There is also a line coming from im not sure, up high, either the inside or outside shower going toward front of trailer to a tank. This is quite a ways from the what i believe is the fresh water tank, what is this? The line starts out blue from the top and then there is a inline connecter and then red line to tank. Can anyone explains this configuration. What is what. Why red and blue connected together? Thanks
 

2010augusta

Well-known member
I well try to help where I can,

your freeze issue is most likely the fresh water tank drain, as it is "teed" into the line from the tank to the pump. It sticks out of the underbelly and will be first thing to freeze, as it freezes it will block the rest of the supply line to the pump.

The other line is quite possibly the black tank flush line. Since it is not part of the true fresh water system, heartland can become a bit lax in their color coding on those lines.
 

GOTTOYS

Well-known member
My BC froze up too here in Texas. We had to go to the tank and it froze during the night. I opened the basement area and pumped heat in it all day with an elec heater. Had a fan fan blowing it back toward the tank also. I pulled the line off and tried to blow it out with my compressor also. No luck. To heck with it. We have several gals. of water and a a nice shower house and bathrooms. Lots of others in the same boat here. We have plenty of heat and are comfortable, lots better off than others. Wal Mart was out of bottled water and any kind of elec heater Winter clothes were going fast...Stay warm. Don
 

noobee

Well-known member
Where in Texas are you??? We are in Mission... got a little below freezing overnight & the previous night... I let a trickle of water run in the kitchen sink with the dump valve open & didn't have any freeze up issues.
CS
 

peanutman

Member
Where in Texas are you??? We are in Mission... got a little below freezing overnight & the previous night... I let a trickle of water run in the kitchen sink with the dump valve open & didn't have any freeze up issues.
CS
I am down in waco. I had lights in all bay areas so i was not to worried. But she froze up anyway. I didn't think to leave water trickeling with dump valves open, now dump valves are frozen closed and water bib in park is frozen. Live in an rv and learn.
 

peanutman

Member
I well try to help where I can,

your freeze issue is most likely the fresh water tank drain, as it is "teed" into the line from the tank to the pump. It sticks out of the underbelly and will be first thing to freeze, as it freezes it will block the rest of the supply line to the pump.

The other line is quite possibly the black tank flush line. Since it is not part of the true fresh water system, heartland can become a bit lax in their color coding on those lines.
Haden't thought of that Thanks!
 

jheitman

Well-known member
As I understand, the underbelly is heated using bleedoff warm air from the furnace ducting.
How cold did it get at night where you were?
Were you running your furnace all night?

I have survived some below freezing nights using the furnace.
I've bought some wireless temperature sensors and plan to install one in the underbelly.
we'll see if the bleed air from the floor ducts has any significant impact on underbelly air temperatures.
There is a real furnace register in the basement storage area and I've measured elevated temperatures there before..
I'll monitor temperatures there too in the future.
Ill publish the data I collect.
It would be nice to know how low outside temperatures can get before plumbing freezing starts.
I believe the "space" blanket material on the bottom does provide installation of the heat in the underbelly, I just dont know how much.

My plan is to blow out my plumbing whenever I suspect temperatures might get too cold over night.
I would dump my fresh water tank too. We carry a few gallon jugs of water for these situations.

Jim
 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
I was proud of my trailer last week in the deep freeze down here in Mission TX. We had temps in the low to mid 20's overnight with a light rain falling when the power went out in the park. My furnace worked all night and kept us from freezing.
 

peanutman

Member
As I understand, the underbelly is heated using bleedoff warm air from the furnace ducting.
How cold did it get at night where you were?
Were you running your furnace all night?

I have survived some below freezing nights using the furnace.
I've bought some wireless temperature sensors and plan to install one in the underbelly.
we'll see if the bleed air from the floor ducts has any significant impact on underbelly air temperatures.
There is a real furnace register in the basement storage area and I've measured elevated temperatures there before..
I'll monitor temperatures there too in the future.
Ill publish the data I collect.
It would be nice to know how low outside temperatures can get before plumbing freezing starts.
I believe the "space" blanket material on the bottom does provide installation of the heat in the underbelly, I just dont know how much.

My plan is to blow out my plumbing whenever I suspect temperatures might get too cold over night.
I would dump my fresh water tank too. We carry a few gallon jugs of water for these situations.

Jim
I have a temp sensor in the pump and plumbing bay. I was running my furnace at the 60 deg range and supplement with a elec heater. My storage bay area would range 45-55 deg, upper range when furnace was on and that was with 2-75 watt lights which i have increased to 3 in plumbing bay and one in storage bay. You are correct the tanks are heated with bleed off heat.
I believe the problem is heat rises and the fresh water tank is below in the belly. Also we were in the teens and wind chills below or at 0 deg.

Nothing has froze again but temps have not gotten in the teens and stayed there for several days.
My furnace has an extra knock out and i have considered piping heat down into the under belly.
I also insulated my storage bay doors which seemed to help.
 

jheitman

Well-known member
Ok, well that is one data point, sounds like outside temps in the teens is a freezing risk.
I sometimes think of running the fireplace heater to save gas, which it does, but by reducing furnace time we reduce heating in the underbelly. If its not freezing out I say run the fireplace and any other electric heaters to save propane. But if its significantly below freezing I would run the furnance alone. And make sure the register in the hall isn't blowing right on the thermostate. I've got to get all my sensors in soon.
 

jheitman

Well-known member
I was proud of my trailer last week in the deep freeze down here in Mission TX. We had temps in the low to mid 20's overnight with a light rain falling when the power went out in the park. My furnace worked all night and kept us from freezing.

I thought the furnance blower ran on 110 ac. Does it really run on 12 vdc?
 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
Yep it does. Kept us as warm as possible without any power to the trailer.
 

jheitman

Well-known member
I have a temp sensor in the pump and plumbing bay. I was running my furnace at the 60 deg range and supplement with a elec heater. My storage bay area would range 45-55 deg, upper range when furnace was on and that was with 2-75 watt lights which i have increased to 3 in plumbing bay and one in storage bay. You are correct the tanks are heated with bleed off heat.
I believe the problem is heat rises and the fresh water tank is below in the belly. Also we were in the teens and wind chills below or at 0 deg.

Nothing has froze again but temps have not gotten in the teens and stayed there for several days.
My furnace has an extra knock out and i have considered piping heat down into the under belly.
I also insulated my storage bay doors which seemed to help.

JMH>>> Where is this extra furnance output port? heartland told me they cut 2" holes in the ducts between each storage tank in the underbelly. Thats quite a bit of air really, and I wonder if there is a return path for that air? If too much air is diverted into the underbelly from the furnance and it just leaks outside, lots of makeup air will have to be brought in from outside which may significantly reduce the efficiency of the furnance.
I have seen tank heater blankets on sales. They look like excellent ways to keep the tanks from freezing and using park electricity. But they should really be installed during initial fabrication, I don't know how we could add them now.
Maybe a little insulation around the fresh water drain mechanism might be the most effective thing we can do.
How are you mounting 110 bulbs in your plumbing bay?

Jim
 
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jheitman

Well-known member
Wow, so your trailer battery powered the furnance blower all night? Did you leave your truck hooked up electrically too, so that you got some power from both batteries. Or do you have more than one battery in the trailer?
 

peanutman

Member
JMH>>> Where is this extra furnance output port? heartland told me they cut 2" holes in the ductou between each storage tank in the underbelly. Thats quite a bit of air really, and I wonder if there is a return path for that air? If too much air is diverted into the underbelly from the furnance and it just leaks outside, lots of makeup air will have to be brought in from outside which may significantly reduce the efficiency of the furnance.
I have seen tank heater blankets on sales. They look like excellent ways to keep the tanks from freezing and using park electricity. But they should really be installed during initial fabrication, I don't know how we could add them now.
Maybe a little insulation around the fresh water drain mechanism might be the most effective thing we can do.
How are you mounting 110 bulbs in your plumbing bay?

Jim
All duct hoses i could trace comes directly off the furnace and runs to the registers i can see, except the duct that supplies the registers that run toward the back of my unit. I guess there could be heated air exiting at the fresh water tank on that duct run. I have a 32re and if you take the wood grill off just below and to the left of the kitchen sink there is a knock out plug on the back/side of the furnace box that would face you looking at it.

For me i don't know how i would get blanket heaters on the tanks without dropping the underbelly. I can only see a small corner of one tank from the plumbing bay thru a hole that is cut about 8''x8'' square in the trailer floor once you remove the entire panel that divides the plumbing bay and storage bay.

The 110v lights that i installed are 2 in plumbing bay one on a clip light and one zip tied to a plumbing line, both fixed so the don't touch anything and melt a hole. I also have two lights in the middle storage bay, one i have zip tied to the shower p-trap and the other to a small pipe clamp i installed near the ac duct that feeds the hallway . All is run off 6ft extension cords to a GFI strip i installed in the plumbing bay, which is plugged onto the GFI in the wet bay.

Also the two access doors from the storage bay to the plumbing bay i took the screws out and have those attached with velcro for easy on and off.
 
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jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
jheitman, the furnace ran all night on the one battery but I did plug the truck in during the day to recharge it. The pwer came back on around 7 that evening.
 
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