Caliber/Caliber Edition opinions needed !

OBX-GL

Active Member
Hi all ! it is appearing like i'm very close to becoming a member of your family. Currently my my wife and i have a Caliber and a NT Caliber Edition 265RLS making our short list along with one other model from another brand for a spring purchase. I thought i would give a post here and see what the Heartland owners forum could add to sway our choice this way. I also have a few questions.

The Heartland web site has very little Caliber Edition info which is making it harder to seal the deal. Does the 2011.5/12 Caliber Edition 265RLS come with wood louvers as stated on this forum because the one model i saw had cheap looking white blinds? Does the carpet still extend to the back door? I'm hoping for linoleum as we camp in sand.

We are also looking at a 2011 (Grey) Caliber 265RLS (which has nicer shades) and was wondering if there are many other benefits with going with this older model. For us the big benefit to this model is the lack of frame-less windows enabling more window to be open. Especially as the new models back window does not open at all on the one version i saw.

Lastly as i am Canadian and most likely purchasing out of country (US) is there any chronic deficiencies with this brand/model as home will be 10rhs away from dealer of purchase. Will i encounter warranty claim issues with my local dealers.
 

jimtoo

Moderator
Hi OBX-GL,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and hopefully to the family. We have a great bunch of people here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge if needed.

Not having a Caliber or NT, I really can't give you an answer. But, the folks that do have them will jump in and help with answers soon. As far as warranty issues go, I don't think you would have a problem. Heartland is very good to work with in that area.

Enjoy the forum.

Jim M
 

Ticaster

Member
I just recently purchased a NT Caliber Edition. If you were looking between the std NT and the Caliber Edition, the cost of upgrade is definitely worth it for the extras you would get, but the Caliber trailers have many of those features as well. The blinds in the NT are wood, but painted white. They are a large width (1.5") and seem to be pretty well made. I can understand your concern on the frameless windows. They look VERY sharp but do change how they open and could cut down on air flow. I like the flooring better in the Caliber TT (wood plank looking). I think it will come down to personal preference for you and which model has the features or look that you want. The NT Caliber Ed does have upgraded kitchen faucet and the solid surface counter in the bathroom, not sure what the Caliber TT has. Either way, both trailers are Heartland built and you can't lose.
Good luck! If you are looking for a Dealer in the US, Lakeshore RV Center in Muskegon, MI is great to deal with. They carry the NT trailers and I think they could order a Caliber if that is what you want.
Chris
 
M

Mcreech

Guest
Hi all ! it is appearing like i'm very close to becoming a member of your family. Currently my my wife and i have a Caliber and a NT Caliber Edition 265RLS making our short list along with one other model from another brand for a spring purchase. I thought i would give a post here and see what the Heartland owners forum could add to sway our choice this way. I also have a few questions.

The Heartland web site has very little Caliber Edition info which is making it harder to seal the deal. Does the 2011.5/12 Caliber Edition 265RLS come with wood louvers as stated on this forum because the one model i saw had cheap looking white blinds? Does the carpet still extend to the back door? I'm hoping for linoleum as we camp in sand.

We are also looking at a 2011 (Grey) Caliber 265RLS (which has nicer shades) and was wondering if there are many other benefits with going with this older model. For us the big benefit to this model is the lack of frame-less windows enabling more window to be open. Especially as the new models back window does not open at all on the one version i saw.

Lastly as i am Canadian and most likely purchasing out of country (US) is there any chronic deficiencies with this brand/model as home will be 10rhs away from dealer of purchase. Will i encounter warranty claim issues with my local dealers.


Let me answer your questions, You have 3 choices in the NT line up... First, lets start with the Grey Caliber unit. We are no longer making the Grey Caliber, so anything you would buy is out on dealers lot already. This model has cherry wood, night shades, wood plank flooring and regular windows and it does have carpet in the back area. The NT Caliber Edition we took the grey fiberglass to white, added white wood/plastic window blinds instead of night shades, added frameless windows, pull-out kitchen faucet, and solid surface counter top in the bathroom, and this unit has carpet in the back as well but could be ordered minimal carpet also we replaced the wood plank Lino with a tile look Lino....Now the regular NT you need to minus the front cap, framless windows, cherry wood, pull out kitchen faucet, and solid surface bathroom counter top. The wood color is Oak instead of cherry and this unit too could be ordered with minimal carpet.....and also, service would not be a problem, Heartland has dealers all of Canada and the US.....

I hope that helps. All three units are awesome and you couldn't go wrong with either of them
 
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OBX-GL

Active Member
Thanks all for your help !

Mcreech
Had a conversation with a local Heatland NT dealer who does not stock/order the model i'm after. He said he would not service my US trailer without extensive wiring and gas changes requiring thousands of dollars in upgrades to achieve CSA standards. I am aware i need to get a CSA rating/sticker when i get home and have been told acheivable at our Canadian Tire for $300. Is the local dealer correct and is your assembly/wiring/gas process largely different for Canadian trailers?

Sorry if this is something that has been covered before on the forum.
 
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M

Mcreech

Guest
Thanks all for your help !

Mcreech
Had a conversation with a local Heatland NT dealer who does not stock/order the model i'm after. He said he would not service my US trailer without extensive wiring and gas changes requiring thousands of dollars in upgrades to achieve CSA standards. I am aware i need to get a CSA rating/sticker when i get home and have been told acheivable at our Canadian Tire for $300. Is the local dealer correct and is your assembly/wiring/gas process largely different for Canadian trailers?

Sorry if this is something that has been covered before on the forum.

What dealer are you talking to and what model?
 

OBX-GL

Active Member
I spoke on the phone and in person to Brad Campkin at Campkin Rv's in Whitby/Oshawa Ontario. My multiple interactions with him and his staff have always been with the intent to purchase local and through him/them but at a reasonable sale price as within a 5 hour drive i can purchase in the US. My interest is in Caliber Edition 265 RLS. For three weeks i left reminders for him and his staff to let me know if i could order or if they were going to stock this model as they did last year. It was upon our last interaction (I called Brad) he told me it was illegal for him to even plug a RVIA non CSA trailer into our (Can.) electrical grid.Further he instructed me Heartland restricts US. dealers being able to order CSA build trailers to protect the Canadian dealers. Is this true? His reason for his staff not returning my inquiries for the past two/plus weeks was the Heartland rep. had been to busy with the seasons RV shows to get back to him on whether he was able to order my trailer. This is all near a month ago now. I never herd from Campkins with a response. Since i have pursued Heartland dealers that knew what they could stock/order and returned my calls.

I have no axe to grind with Brad/Campkin RV other than the delay in my hopefully impending purchase, and the fear he created in not being able to find someone local who will be qualified by Heartland to service a Heartland product. I made it clear i would pay a premium to purchase local covering all additional Can. dealer costs, but was looking for a fair price.I feel the reason i had nobody returning my calls was that i was upfront about having done my research on pricing apples to apples,Can. vs. US.

So. Now i am left wondering how much of what i was told is true. I have never owned a travel trailer before and know very little about the industry. I have become a member of many forums and i am asking a lot of questions as i am looking at making a $23,500.00-$28,500.00 purchase for the same unit. 23 being best price at a US dealer, 28 best price Can. dealer, all taxes/duties,cost of transport incorporated fairly. $5000.00 is a large premium to pay to buy local and to feel safe about warranty work,which in the case of the best Can.price is still a 3 hour one way drive from home. On a positive note that best Can. price was from Morry's RV in Walkerton Ont. and Paul there who i just met has been going above and beyond to help me and all my novice questions.

Sorry Mcreech for the ramblings. As i am still without these answers i felt i should justify why i asked. Also, i thought i should give you some background as you have asked me to give the dealers name.
 
M

Mcreech

Guest
I spoke on the phone and in person to Brad Campkin at Campkin Rv's in Whitby/Oshawa Ontario. My multiple interactions with him and his staff have always been with the intent to purchase local and through him/them but at a reasonable sale price as within a 5 hour drive i can purchase in the US. My interest is in Caliber Edition 265 RLS. For three weeks i left reminders for him and his staff to let me know if i could order or if they were going to stock this model as they did last year. It was upon our last interaction (I called Brad) he told me it was illegal for him to even plug a RVIA non CSA trailer into our (Can.) electrical grid.Further he instructed me Heartland restricts US. dealers being able to order CSA build trailers to protect the Canadian dealers. Is this true? His reason for his staff not returning my inquiries for the past two/plus weeks was the Heartland rep. had been to busy with the seasons RV shows to get back to him on whether he was able to order my trailer. This is all near a month ago now. I never herd from Campkins with a response. Since i have pursued Heartland dealers that knew what they could stock/order and returned my calls.

I have no axe to grind with Brad/Campkin RV other than the delay in my hopefully impending purchase, and the fear he created in not being able to find someone local who will be qualified by Heartland to service a Heartland product. I made it clear i would pay a premium to purchase local covering all additional Can. dealer costs, but was looking for a fair price.I feel the reason i had nobody returning my calls was that i was upfront about having done my research on pricing apples to apples,Can. vs. US.

So. Now i am left wondering how much of what i was told is true. I have never owned a travel trailer before and know very little about the industry. I have become a member of many forums and i am asking a lot of questions as i am looking at making a $23,500.00-$28,500.00 purchase for the same unit. 23 being best price at a US dealer, 28 best price Can. dealer, all taxes/duties,cost of transport incorporated fairly. $5000.00 is a large premium to pay to buy local and to feel safe about warranty work,which in the case of the best Can.price is still a 3 hour one way drive from home. On a positive note that best Can. price was from Morry's RV in Walkerton Ont. and Paul there who i just met has been going above and beyond to help me and all my novice questions.

Sorry Mcreech for the ramblings. As i am still without these answers i felt i should justify why i asked. Also, i thought i should give you some background as you have asked me to give the dealers name.


I would love to help you with Campkins but I have no control on what dealers want to carry. However, Morry's RV is an outstanding dealership that treats all there customers awesome...I'm going to have my North Trail Sales Rep. call Morry's right now and tell them to get this deal done with you... I would suggest you give them a call and work something out.. Most of the information you stated from Campkins is incorrect...although I agree you should probably buy from a dealer somewhat in your area because things do happen with RVs and Canadian dealers don't like it when you go to the states a buy, they sometimes then don't want to help you.... But like you said $5000 is a big difference but I think you and Morry's can work something out...Give them a call
 

OBX-GL

Active Member
Thanks for your thoughts Mcreech

I will give Morrys a call tomorrow. They have a large margin to overcome. Regardless of the outcome I respect Paul/Morry's RV for not leveraging warranty to gain my sale.

//heartlandowners.org/member.php/2519-Mcreech
 
M

Mcreech

Guest
Please do, i think you can guys can meet in the middle somewhere
 

Campkinsrv

Member
Dealer response to Caliber availability and USA vs Ontario purchase!

Hi Fellow Heartland supporters!

Just a quick response that I hope clears up any misunderstandings.

We (Campkin's RV) were a Caliber Dealer (the old style) we had two for sale over the winter at clearance pricing. They sold quickly.

I was approached and asked if we could sell one as a factory order. As Heartland was under a complete re-structuring of brands, reps and management and we as a dealer were not sure we were a) wanting to stock the 'new' Northtrail Caliber series and b) were even able to as we had not been awarded the product.

After talking to the Northtrail brand manager I decided we were not going to be a Northtrail Dealer (Caliber has become a 'series' of Northtrail not a stand alone brand that we had previously handled)

This all took place during show season when both reps and dealers are very, very busy. No excuse but it did take a few weeks for me to make the decision.

In regards to importing RV's from the U.S.A. to Ontario (each province has its own rules I don't know how it works elsewhere except for in Ontario) for the record I totally support free enterprise and welcome competition from anywhere.

If an RV is NOT CSA - Canadian Standards Association or certified by one of several inspection companies like QAI that are approved by CSA to do so (ie QAI):

In Ontario, besides the federal obligation to get a DOT sticker (Cnd tire is the most popular place to get it, for now) you MUST get an inspection from the Electrical Safety Authority (a branch of Ont Hydro). This is an issue of safety as the Ontario Codes are completely different in several area and may need modifications.

Even if your vehicle is CSA - you must get your propane system inspected and tagged by a licenced technician (licenced by TSSA - Technical Standards and Safety Authority).

If we were to work on a coach that is not CSA/QAI and we did not make sure it was up to code first, then we could be held liable if any thing was to go wrong with the coach, even if we had nothing to do with the issue. We are told by ESA and TSSA that as a licenced facility we are to tell the consumer AND tell the governing body if the customer refuses to bring their coach up to code.

This is not communicated very well by USA Dealers, Manufacturers and even by Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RVIV - a federal body), Ontario Dealers, Insurers and members of the RV Industry. Having said that, ignorance is not a good defense.

When a customer asks us about buying an RV in the USA we do feel obligated to tell them the truth. Even if they don't want to hear it. Don't shoot the messenger. In many cases the retailer is put in a position to 'police' the industry. In many cases, like I said above, the person you ask may not have the correct answer and this starts a process if mis-information.

Again, don't shoot the messenger, we are just doing what we are told as a licenced facility.

We do say yes to customers who need warranty work done for brands that we sell. We are obligated, we have no choice, to tell the customer what has to be done before we can work on the coach. It must be inspected, modified if necessary, and tagged.

We do have many costs that are a part of doing warranty work that is not covered by any of our Manufacturers. We do absorb these costs as part of doing business for any customers who have bought from us. We cannot absorb these costs when a customer has bought elsewhere and wants us to do their warranty work. We do have a full time warranty administrator who deals with the main manufacturer (Heartland) but she also has to deal directly with dozens of component suppliers and must get approvals, send pictures, and then we are paid based on a flat rate, not what time was actually taken. Things like brokerage, diagnoses and shop supplies are often not covered under warranty.

We are a full service RV dealer. We staff our service department for a very busy summer season based on our customers who have bought from us since 1973 needing our services at the busiest time of year. We have upwards of 50,000 customers in our database. It is very difficult when during this busy time, to staff for the unknown customers who live locally and need our support for warranty work.

Still we do say yes to customers wanting warranty service even if they bought elsewhere but there are other costs that we must collect for and we make every customer aware of before any work, or billing, is done.

I am going to attach several links for the forum readers to refer to, please let me know your thoughts.

As a 38 year veteran of the RV Industry and have volunteered many times working side by side with Manufacturers, Dealers and Associates of our Industry. I would say we are all still learning and if we have an open mind we will not look for fault or blame but answers and support.

Sincerly,

Brad Campkin
Owner, Sales Manager:
Campkin's RV Centre
Myrtle Stn. Ont.,
Canada
L0B 1A0
sales@campkins.com
1-888-743-9378


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/part7.shtml


http://www.esasafe.com/B2B/epa_001.php?s=17

http://www.riv.ca/ImportingAVehicle.aspx















 

OBX-GL

Active Member
Hi Brad. Your links look helpful. By getting more information out there it will make RV purchases easier for all, and help the industry. To a newbie travel trailer owner like myself asking questions to the RV industry and receiving similar/consistent answers with regards to something as important as warranty is important. Unfortunately this is not what i encountered. A forum like this one where a prospective owner can get important questions answered by the manufacturer is a great tool to all, thank you Heartland.

Sorry i never heard back from you as you are my most local dealer by a large margin and that fact alone was scoring big with me. As i stated in this thread already, i have had no axe to grind with you or your staff other than my need to get a purchase made in a timely fashion. For whatever the reason, lack of communication prevented it.

I have since made my Heartland Caliber Edition 26RLSS purchase at Morry's RV in Walkerton as per Heartlands prompting. I am quite excited. I am now looking forward to becoming a member of the Heartland family, as i pick up my new purchase soon. I'm sure my trip to Walkerton will be very enjoyable and look forward letting my new Heartland family know all my experiences at Morry's Rv 's.
 

OBX-GL

Active Member
Hi Mcreech, and all at the Heartland Forum

Feeling guilty as to my tardy response,sorry. Thank you for encouraging me to reestablish contact with Morry’s RV in Walkerton Ont. Morry’s and i did get a deal done and my experience there especially with sales contact Paul Pereria was stellar. We are now looking forward to our annual 5 week summer vacation in N. Carolina in our new Caliber Edition 26RLSS Travel Trailer.

I would like to enforce the relevance of the Heartland Forum and give credit to Morry’s RV business model by adding, i would not be a Heartland RV owner without you both.
Of all the many Canadian RV dealers i contacted (all brands) Morry’s RV stood alone in choosing to compete on there own merit and not by striving to create fear of it’s US competitors. They gave the best Can. price from day one. Unfortunately the Can. RV dealer atmosphere had me so discouraged that had the Heartland forum not encouraged me to sit down with Morry’s Paul Pereria and look closer at pricing i would not be a Heartland owner and would most definitely have purchased State side. I would also have missed out on an ideal dealer experience which included a lot of attention to my trucks wiring and detailed fitting of it’s hitch assembly, an opportunity to test pull the trailer to experience my trucks capabilities without any pressure to purchase,and a lengthy and detailed PDI. Of great relevance this consumed at least two days of dealer time. Further, as we had traveled some distance to purchase from Morry’s RV two days camping at there local campground was found for us on short notice, this allowing us a shakedown weekend to address any issues with the trailer and improve our learning curve without the inconvenience of having a later lengthy return visit.

I would have no problem referring Ontario residents to Paul Pereria at Morry’s RV as i feel he/they extended every available courtesy to my wife Naomi and i.They allowed us to learn and overcome are newbie fears without pressure and most importantly at a fair price.


Thanks again to Heartland and Morry’s RV in Walkerton Ont. Can.
 

GGB

Member
Re: Dealer response to Caliber availability and USA vs Ontario purchase!

Thanks all for your help !

...... without extensive wiring and gas changes requiring thousands of dollars in upgrades to achieve CSA standards. .... acheivable at our Canadian Tire for $300. ......


I know this post is quite old from April/May time frame but browsing through I had to make a comment in case this type of situation may apply to someone else.

First off I work for an Ontario Ministry as an enforcement officer and have worked extensively and still do with ESA and TSSA agencies as part of my daily duties. Second will it cost you thousands dollars to upgrade a US bought trailer to CSA standards the simple answer is NO it will not, this is misinformation and a fearmongering to make you buy Canadian. Third can the Canadian Tire stores inspection get you a CSA sticker, NO it can not, all they do is make sure that your trailer is mechanically fit to be licenced for the roads in Ontario.

Hi Fellow Heartland supporters! ............In Ontario, besides the federal obligation to get a DOT sticker (Cnd tire is the most popular place to get it, for now) you MUST get an inspection from the Electrical Safety Authority (a branch of Ont Hydro) ESA is not a branch of Ontario Hydro any longer [last 15 years actually]. This is an issue of safety as the Ontario Codes are completely different in several area and may [key word MAY & usualy don't as the UL standard is equivalent to the CSA standard] need modifications. This is not true as the only thing that MTO will want from you is the inspection form from Canadian Tire (there are others) in addition to the RIV forms and to confirm that you paid taxes at the border when bringing the RV over. HOWEVER in saying all this if a service facility, Campkins or anyone else touches the electrical system they have to ensure that it is in compliance with all laws before it is returned to the customer. One main area that some US RVs are different is that not all plugs in the RV run through the GFCI unit which is mandatory in Ontario under the ESA [nothing to do with the CSA standard]. Also some manufacturers buy off shore built recepticals / switches that are not equivalent UL rated to the CSA standard, meaning that they meet a minimum UL rating for the US market but not the equivalent UL rating to the CSA standard. Depending on the UL rating you may be able to get an exemption from ESA after they inspect the unit and there would be a fee to be paid for the inspection.

Even if your vehicle is CSA - you must get your propane system inspected and tagged by a licenced technician (licenced by TSSA - Technical Standards and Safety Authority). Again this is not true there is no requirement to have it inspected by TSSA and tagged in order to get it licenced for the road. HOWEVER in saying that if Campkins or any other service facility touches the propane system they have to make sure that it is in compliance with the TSSA regulations before it can be returned to a customer. The main difference in most RVs is how the propane line is routed and the TSSA will give an exemption after an RV owner pays them [fee is minimal] to carry out an inspection.

If we were to work on a coach that is not CSA/QAI and we did not make sure it was up to code first, then we could be held liable if any thing was to go wrong with the coach, even if we had nothing to do with the issue Only if you work on the electrical or propane system and they are not to the Ontario standards but if you were replacing a delaminated wall or floor or a leaking window there is no obligation. We are told by ESA and TSSA that as a licenced facility we are to tell the consumer AND tell the governing body if the customer refuses to bring their coach up to code.

I am going to attach several links for the forum readers to refer to, please let me know your thoughts.

As a 38 year veteran of the RV Industry and have volunteered many times working side by side with Manufacturers, Dealers and Associates of our Industry. I would say we are all still learning and if we have an open mind we will not look for fault or blame but answers and support.

Sincerly,

Brad Campkin
Owner, Sales Manager:
Campkin's RV Centre
Myrtle Stn. Ont.,
Canada
L0B 1A0
sales@campkins.com
1-888-743-9378


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/part7.shtml

http://www.esasafe.com/B2B/epa_001.php?s=17

http://www.riv.ca/ImportingAVehicle.aspx



I would be very cautious if buying in the US and would ask many many questions to ensure that it was built to UL standards that were equivalent to the CSA standard.

If you do decide to go the US purchase route and live in Ontario, you can get an exemption letter from ESA & TSSA (or authorized persons) that your trailer is ESA & TSSA compliant. There is a small fee for this (~$65 for ESA not sure on TSSA but under $100). This should avoid any service facilities issues, and if they still refuse then you know that the only reason is that you did not buy it from them....

Finally I have 3 friends that have bought new RVs this year 2 of them bought in Canada by getting a US quote and then finding a dealer close enough to them that were willing to negotiate a price that was fair and close to the US price. The 3rd friend could not get a deal worked out and eneded up going to Buffalo to buy his 5th wheel and saved close to $10K all in.

Personally this will be my route if I can find what suits our family in Canada then we will buy as local as possible as long as the price is fair (close to what the US dealer is selling same unit for).

Regards
Gord
 
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