windows

The dealer that i,m ordering my 3400 re from says that i,d be wasting my money on dual paine windows, because there are framed in alluin. and that conducts the cold. also he says the air space is so little it doesn,t help. :confused: any body whith these windows or any feedback i,d appreciate i,d like to do it right the first time. Thanks Jim Thomas
 

Midastouch

Well-known member
YES on dual pane!

Jim,

After RV shopping and looking at alot of different manufacturers ... I knew what I wanted and when I asked if the unit I was looking at on a particular lot had them or how much to order them, etc.... most salesman would tell me I didn't need them either. I got some very strange explanations about the information they gave me. It was either because they were trying to sell me what was on the lot that didn't have dual pane .... or they just didn't know what the benefits were so they opted to play it safe and say they weren't needed!

My dealer (RV's For Less) had no problem with my choice and advised getting them when I decided on the Landmark Grand Canyon and because I am in the unit fulltime, it was a small price to pay for the advantages of climate control and noise reduction! You'll soon hear from others and I think most that don't have them wished they did ....
 

HappyKayakers

Well-known member
I can't compare with or without since this is our first RV and we opted for the dual pane windows. However, we just finished our first winter in the Texas panhandle where the nighttime temps routinely dropped into the teens and 20s. I can confirm that the frames DID conduct cold. I'm just not sure how much the windows helped keep heat in or cold out.
 

fireflipper

EX-Travel Bug
Fireflipper

I have a 2005 GRand Canyon without dual pane windows. If I do it again my next unit will have them. I have spent some time in units with them and it does make a difference, how much depends on where you are parked. Talk to Butch and see what he thinks about it.
 

tdharley

Well-known member
I hate to rain on everybody's parade and I do not want to be hated here but......

STC stands for Sound Transmission Class.

Basically, STC ratings are an established way to average how much sound is stopped by something. STC ratings are used for windows, doors, walls and most building materials. For windows, STC ratings range from 18 to 50. The value for an average single pane window is 27 and a dual pane is 30. Considering a true sound proof window is over 45, your salesmen are feeding you a line.

The biggest problem with an aluminum window is the transmission of cold from outside to inside. We have not used an aluminum windows in the building business for years mainly for that reason, no good way to install a "thermal brake". The industry standard is vinyl for competeitve homes.

And the last thing is, have you ever seen a dual pane window after the seal brakes? The window condensates. I would think that it will happen alot quicker in a moving vehicle than a stationary house. It happens in your home due to expansion & contraction.

All in all the price difference is not that much, and for the peace of mind you could go for it and if it proves to be a bad descision you could always install thermal drapery.

Yes you are right I do not have dual pane windows, mainly because I bought mine off the lot and would probably put in a sattelite system over the windows. I also do not do much cold weather camping so it is kinda a "moot" issue for me.
 

katkens

Founding Illinios Chapter Leader-retired
We have had trailers with and without and would definitely order them again. The savings on heating and cooling has to help, and the noise reduction is a big difference. Ken
 

SmokeyBare

Well-known member
I ordered our rig with Duel Paine windows also. I'm one Happy Camper that I did. To clear up one thing said by TDHARLEY... these windows are not exactly like Therompane windows a home would have. These are not Gas Filled. These have no seal to break as such. I am betting that in an RV... with the movement as we drive back and forth across the highways... those sealed windows like a home have might not keep their seal. I agree that aluminum frames will produce some condensation... or some cold transfer. Yet I've not seen any other type of material on any RV yet.

I find that they keep the condensation down when it's Hot outside and the A/C is keeping the Rig cool inside. Likewise when it's cold outside... and the furnace is running... The windows don't steam up. Both Conditions used to happen in our Challenger fifth wheel...

I am happy I decided to put the Dual Paine windows in our BigHorn.

Marv
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
I do not have the dual pane windows but wish I did. On my last trailer, Titanium, we had the dual panes but we were told by the salesperson and a factory rep from Heartland that we would not need them with our Landmark. To suppress the cold and condensation I keep the day shades closed and this helps and when it gets dark I have the day/night shades completely closed. Closing the shades still does not help the noise but I do not find the noise that bad.
 

jpmorgan37

Well-known member
One word. Get'em. I'm on my third fifth wheel and had two without and this one with. We live in it year round. Cold weather makes a bunch of difference in the ability to keep in the heat. Hot weather, same thing except abiliity to keep it cooler. And noise abatement is a big difference. They are not argon filled. It is just dead air space between the two panes, but it is still a good insulating factor.
 

ct0218

Well-known member
The Landmark was our first RV with dual pane windows, and having had three prior ones without them, we've decided we would never own another RV if it didn't have dual pane glass. Our windows have never had condensation, a first, and it does block some sound better than single glazed windows. There are aluminum framed windows made with thermal breaks (PGT Industries, for example), but not in the RV industry that I'm aware of. Still worth it in my opinion.
 

madigand

Well-known member
Last year I went to an RV show in Dallas, TX. It came up a thunderstorm. I went outside to check out the sound difference. I was amazed at the difference in the noise level of 2 identical units. One had dual pane and the other had regular windows. Like day and night. I also checked out a unit in a camp site. The noise level dropped significantly when I shut the door. That was what sold me on the dual pane windows. As others have posted I am sure they make a big difference in the heating and cooling of your unit. I have gotten so much valuable advice from this great group of folks and I am sure you will also.

Can hardly wait, Leaving AZ 25th heading to Butch and Karen to get my rig. Hope to be in it by Friday. Time is going a bit faster now. ;)
 

ChopperBill

Well-known member
I have duals in the Bighorn FW and singles in the Snowriver TC. Only difference I can see is the singles get condensation a bunch worse.
 

DougLynne

retired Alberta Chapter Leaders
We put them on our new Bighorn and the only camping so far was in cooler weather for several days. Not sure the warmth factor is there compared to our old 5th without them, but no condensation when cooking etc. Our other 5th's windows would fog up when the stove and furnace ran and it was cold outside.../Doug
 

jpmorgan37

Well-known member
I am going to make a request, as moderator of this forum, that this type of post stop now. The object of this forum from the beginning was to assist each other when we had a question. Lets keep it that way, please.

Thanks for your cooperation,

John
 
C

Chulinw

Guest
Get the dual pain windows. I don't have them since I purchase off the lot and wish I did have them. Get what amkes you happy not the sales person. You are the most important person to happy and if that is what you want get them.
 

impertick

Clark & Tina Emery
windows and heating and cooling

In response to the Waller's questions,

We kept our coach warm in the winter, especially when it 30 below, by doing the following. Please keep in mind that we lived in our coach for 8 months while we built our home.(june thru january)In Vernal, Utah this year was one of the coldest in the last 15 years.
      1. We had to seal two of the tipouts around the inside base with towels.( we are 3 hours from dealership and couldn't take rig to get tipouts adjusted for a while)
      2. Got some expandable foam and sealed every hole or crack in all the basement and compartment areas to keep cold out.
      3. We insulated around the hose from the house faucet.
      4. Put extra insulation on the inside of the basement doors.
I'll be real honest with you. There were days that we did get cold. The furnace would sometimes need help with a little plug in heater.


As for the airconditioning. This is a sour subject for us still. :mad: The air conditioner that came with the coach is very poor quality in my opinion. We have had lots of challenges with it. Are dealership and Heartland have been excellent in trying to reamedy the problem. I would highly recommend getting 2 airconditioners when you get your coach. Here are some of the things that we did to help keep the rig cool in 95 to 100 degrees:
  1. Our Bighorn came with a dual-therm aircond 1500 BTU Ducted. I pulled the cover off it and we found a copper tube that was bent so that the freeon couldn't circulate through the radiator panel and cool down the incoming air. We fixed that problem.
  2. After another couple frustratingly hot days (70 to 80 degrees). The airconditioner still would not put out cool air. We then pulled off the inside intake panel and found that the partition that seperated the intake from the outake was not sealing properly, so the cool air that was blowing out, was being sucked right back in the intake to be cooled again. We fixed that problem.
  3. The air conditioner worked better, until the temprature reached about 95 degrees, then the air conditioner ran all the time and would freeze up periodically.
  4. In the end, we ended up going to a local RV dealership and purchasing a 13500 BTU Non-ducted Carrier brand Air Conditioner and putting it in the bedroom. This air conditioner, not only worked properly, but cooled the trailer off better than two Duo-therms probably would.
In summary, we have talked to three different dealerships, including the one that we bought the coach from and they all say that the Duo-Therm is by far the worst air conditioner in effeciency and the one that is most frequently serviced. Our coach is currently having the Duo-Therm air conditioner replaced with a second comparable Carrier air conditioner. If your coach is as big as ours (38 feet long), then I would strongly advise putting in two airconditioners and make them both Carriers. ;)
 

ChopperBill

Well-known member
Lots of posts in the Bighorn section about TimK's "tent in the vent" modification for the air ducting on the a/c. Works 10 times greater than it came from the factory! Try it before you spend money on changing out the A/C.
 

elwaller39

Evans & Lana
Clark & Tina,
I am so glad for your response with 30 below weather!! You did not mention wether you had dual pane windows and if you had much moisture problems with these windows. So you are saying also you did not have any frozen pipes in your coach at this tempature? You did not have any thing around the bottom of your coach to keep the cold air from coming up from under the coach? I knew I had a great 3400RL BigHorn coach, but now I have no fear of tempatures in the low teens and do well in this coach. Great job to thoughs at Heartland!!! Evans & Lana
 

impertick

Clark & Tina Emery
We have dual pane windows. yes we put insulation around the coach from the ground to the bottom of the coach. We also lived in are coach for 8 months. If you stay in weather in the teens for a couple of days you will be fine. We had some condensation in the bedroom window and the big back window. Again we stayed for months and had 6 people staying in the coach. I would highl y recommend the Bighorn to anyone that is looking.n Utah weather this winter was colder this year than in the last 15 yerars and our coach did great. If you need any details I would be glad to answer any detialed questions you have. We did not insulate until the temp got to Zero. We also wrapped our water pipes when it got to zero. I think you yu will do just great. A piece of advice: Check out every inch of your coach. From the heater, aircond., windows, trim, caulking around the outside, check to see if the water tank has droped if not it probable will. Have the dealer put extra straping under the tanks. The tanks droping is a problem with these 5th wheels. Have your dealer be sure that all your tipouts seal perfectly before your get in cold weather. We have had problems with our coach but I have to add that our dealer and the Heartland corp has been terrific. Just look at every inch and have them fix anything and everything that even looks like it will go bad. Even check the roof (we found something wrong there).

Please feal free to ask any more questions that you may have!
 
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