self adjust brake owners

Bobby A

Well-known member
We are heading to Lippert on the 2nd for some rally promo work. I would like to hear from those that have the self adjust brakes and get there feedback.
Thank you,
Bobby A
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Bobby, just like a car.. you have to do alot of backing up to make them work. Also you have to remove the drums now and then and clean everything. Other wise they would get gummy and not work right. The pix I have seen.....they look like the old Chrysler or Bendix brakes from the 70's and 80's. For the money....I personally don't think they are worth the money. Save your money and have disc's put on. JMHO of course.
 

rustyshakelford

Well-known member
i have dexter axles and brakes. above the hubs, there is a sticker that says they dont require adjustment. is this what your talking about bob? how does backing up adjust them? do i need to manually apply the brakes? i can post a pic of what the sticker says when i get home tomorrow

brett
 

bdb2047

Well-known member
I have the Dexter self adjust.According to Dexter maintence and service manual they will adjust on both forward and reverse stops.Manual is available on line and if you fill out request they will send hard copy very quickly.
 

Bobby A

Well-known member
Thanks guys, the reason why I ask is the Lippert rally promo is self adjust brakes for $60.00 per axle, sounds like a real good deal but I know nothing about them, I'am signed up to receive them but I would like more info about them and speek to those that already have them and get there opinion.

Thanks,
Bobby
 

Bobby A

Well-known member
I have the Dexter self adjust.According to Dexter maintence and service manual they will adjust on both forward and reverse stops.Manual is available on line and if you fill out request they will send hard copy very quickly.

I went on the Lippert web site last night and could not pull up anything about self adjust brakes, the only thing I've seen is the original promo flyer showing whats available for Rally members. Has anyone seen any info on this ??
 

TandT

Founding Utah Chapter Leaders-Retired
Bobby,
I got self adjusting Dexters, standard on my 2011 BH.
If I adjust my Prodigy brake controller to the point where it seems like I'm getting decent stopping from highway speeds, they are so "grabby" at stop and go speeds in traffic that it jerks the rig severely and is VERY annoying. So When I'm stuck in traffic at slow speeds, I have to back off on the Prodigy setting. Then when I hit the highway, I have to dial it up again, or I have very little stopping capability. Very frustrating.

If I had my druthers, I would get hydraulic discs.
 
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Bobby A

Well-known member
Bobby,
I got them standard on my 2011 BH. If I adjust my Prodigy brake controller to the point where it seems like I'm getting decent stopping from highway speeds, they are so "grabby" at stop and go speeds in traffic that it jerks the rig severely and is VERY annoying. So When I'm stuck in traffic at slow speeds, I have to back off on the Prodigy setting. Then when I hit the highway, I have to dial it up again, or I have very little stopping capability. Very frustrating.

If I had my druthers, I would get hydraulic discs.

Thanks for your info, I have the prodigy also and with my current standard brakes I just sit it and forget it !! It stops in all conditions, I'm really starting to think I should cancel my order on the self adjust brakes even if its a good deal. I still would like to hear from others and there opinions, I don't think hydraulic discs is an option right now financially, arn't they kinda costly ??
 
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slaytop

Well-known member
I put them on my Shenandoah and they seem to be working ok.

A friend put them on his Big Horn and he found them to adjust too tightly causing the drums to get too hot. He took them off and put the originals back on.

I would simply disconnect the auto adjust feature and adjust manually if they became a problem.
 

Bobby A

Well-known member
I put them on my Shenandoah and they seem to be working ok.

A friend put them on his Big Horn and he found them to adjust too tightly causing the drums to get too hot. He took them off and put the originals back on.

I would simply disconnect the auto adjust feature and adjust manually if they became a problem.

good information, thanks for posting
Bobby A
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
I don't have self adjusters but I have to admit I've thought about them. After hearing of others experience, maybe not. I usually do bearing maintenance annually and clean and adjust the brakes at that time and have never adjusted them between and so far regular brakes have been fine.
 

Bobby A

Well-known member
I don't have self adjusters but I have to admit I've thought about them. After hearing of others experience, maybe not. I usually do bearing maintenance annually and clean and adjust the brakes at that time and have never adjusted them between and so far regular brakes have been fine.

I do the same Ray, and have never had a problem, I don't like what I'm hearing about the self adjust brakes. I think I'm gonna call and cancel my order. Thanks, as always, I value your opinion, and everyone elses also.

Bobby
 

TeJay

Well-known member
I'm dazed and confused again. This is not the first time I've read stuff concerning self-adjusters on drum brakes. I've got 35 years experience teaching automotive and when this topic first came up here I was shocked. I am amazed that trailers don't come with self adjusting brakes (SAB). They have been around for 40 plus years and they work great. The only problem I ever had with SAB's was if the owner neglected them on the first brake job. On cars with front discs and rear drums the fronts last about 35-K to 45-K. Because of the weight shift towards the front the rears usually go about twice that amount. So around 70-K to 90-K you have to do the rear shoes. If at that time you replace everything (shoes, springs & self-adjusters) they are good to go for another 70-K plus miles. That was my experience with drums. The adjusters work, if they need to, every time you backup and stop. They physically can not under any circumstances over tighten the shoes. Why??? The shoes shift each time you back-up and stop. If they shift enough then they will adjust out one star wheel notch and no more. If the shoes don't shift enough then no adjustment takes place. They are fool proof as long as they're not neglected (90-K miles with no TLC). If something breaks or fails they still can not over adjust the shoes. It's physically impossible. If a spring breaks (seldom happens), they need serviced. If something about the self-adjuster breaks they can be manually adjusted.
Disc brakes are also self-adjusting but it takes place because of the Square cut rubber seal that is around the piston. It distorts upon application and when it relaxes and becomes square again it pulls the piston back about .005 which reduces pad pressure.

Something else bothers me about trailer wheel bearings. Why is it that we can go 40-60-K miles or more on cars and trucks but only 6-K 12-K or annually on TT bearings?? Are we overloading the bearings or are the manufacturer's trying to save a few bucks so they put undersized bearings and recommend that we have to pack them every year and check for damage?? I can't believe that axle companies are so cheap that they put smaller than necessary bearing on their units. If they put the correct bearings and we don't overload the units they should be good to go for many, many miles. Well at least longer than an annual pack and adjust.
Just my 1 - cent worth.
TeJay
 

Bobby A

Well-known member
I'm dazed and confused again. This is not the first time I've read stuff concerning self-adjusters on drum brakes. I've got 35 years experience teaching automotive and when this topic first came up here I was shocked. I am amazed that trailers don't come with self adjusting brakes (SAB). They have been around for 40 plus years and they work great. The only problem I ever had with SAB's was if the owner neglected them on the first brake job. On cars with front discs and rear drums the fronts last about 35-K to 45-K. Because of the weight shift towards the front the rears usually go about twice that amount. So around 70-K to 90-K you have to do the rear shoes. If at that time you replace everything (shoes, springs & self-adjusters) they are good to go for another 70-K plus miles. That was my experience with drums. The adjusters work, if they need to, every time you backup and stop. They physically can not under any circumstances over tighten the shoes. Why??? The shoes shift each time you back-up and stop. If they shift enough then they will adjust out one star wheel notch and no more. If the shoes don't shift enough then no adjustment takes place. They are fool proof as long as they're not neglected (90-K miles with no TLC). If something breaks or fails they still can not over adjust the shoes. It's physically impossible. If a spring breaks (seldom happens), they need serviced. If something about the self-adjuster breaks they can be manually adjusted.
Disc brakes are also self-adjusting but it takes place because of the Square cut rubber seal that is around the piston. It distorts upon application and when it relaxes and becomes square again it pulls the piston back about .005 which reduces pad pressure.

Something else bothers me about trailer wheel bearings. Why is it that we can go 40-60-K miles or more on cars and trucks but only 6-K 12-K or annually on TT bearings?? Are we overloading the bearings or are the manufacturer's trying to save a few bucks so they put undersized bearings and recommend that we have to pack them every year and check for damage?? I can't believe that axle companies are so cheap that they put smaller than necessary bearing on their units. If they put the correct bearings and we don't overload the units they should be good to go for many, many miles. Well at least longer than an annual pack and adjust.
Just my 1 - cent worth.
TeJay

Great insite TeJay, I hope more people will chime in and continue to discuss this topic.
Thanks,
Bobby
 

caissiel

Senior Member
As for bearings, I owned a 12K trailer for 14 years and can only remember repacking when I worked on the brakes. Maybe 3 times at most. The less you work at it the better you are to have no mistakes done also. I do agree with the mileage that we do, I had close to 70K on my last unit never had bearing problems. Tires plenty, until I got rid of the trailer tires.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Tejay, you are correct in almost all your statements. The question I would have is...in a previous post on this thread it was stated that "they adjust going backwards and forwards". Not sure how that would work. My other problem with them is..how often do you back up you rig...really. I would rather save my money and install disc brakes.

Wheel bearings are another matter. Are they too small...don't know. Are they cheap...probably and made in China. I give mine a squirt of grease now and then when I rotate the tires. That way I can rotate the hub as the instructions say while adding grease. I don't think even Timkins are made here anymore.

BTW, Tejay, I have you beat by about 12 years wrenching on cars and trucks. Seen alot of weird things over those years. The scary thing is a 57 chevy was almost a new car when I started. I think JB was still in diapers.
 

slaytop

Well-known member
TeJay,
Are you sure the Never-Adjust brakes tighten going forward and reverse? I haven't looked at mine for a while but I think the magnetic actuator arm movement has something to do with the forward only adjust. The company ad states the adjustment as a forward only feature.
 

TeJay

Well-known member
Bob,
I thought my last post was rather long so I didn't mention the backing up part. I never ran into a system that self adjusted when moving forward and stopping. It could be done but I never saw one. A system that adjusted both ways would be more expensive and complicated I would think.

Now, how often does one need to back up to adjust brakes?? I don't know. OK lets start out with new drums and correctly adjusted shoes. Highway driving is easier on brakes as you all know. If you drive hilly roads that's different. My guess is you'd probably need to drive 2-4k miles before sufficient wear would require adjusting. I would think that we would back up our trailers at least a few times during 2-4-K miles. If we did then the brakes would adjust what ever amount they needed to keep the shoes close to the drums. Remember they will only adjust if the shoes shift enough in reverse to need adjusting.

Lets throw one more idea into the mix. Brakes pads and shoes need to be burnished. Burnishing is a breaking in period when the brake material is subjected to about 300-500 stops, or at least slow down to about 10 MPH, from moderate speeds with a 1-minute cooling off period between each stop. Panic stops are not recommended or needed and may cause hard spots on the drum or rotor. At the end of these 500 stops the material is said to be fully burnished. This period will cause the greatest amount of material wear and the subsequent material wear will be much less. Have you ever noticed how the new high metal content pads don't stop well when cold?? They work best after heating some. Now I realize that most people don't break in their brakes. They don't even know about it. Just a word to the wise. Take it easy for the first 20-30 stops. Don't panic stop just to see if your brakes work. Give them a few hundred miles to wear in some.

I watched a guy yesterday trying to jump starting a car in a parking lot. He had one side of the jumper cables hooked up to his car and I watched him touch the other two leads together to check for a spark. DUMB, DUMB,DUMB !!! By dead shorting across his battery he sent a spike current back through his electronics and no telling what he fried.

Bob, you are also correct about having disc brakes. Got to be much better but I'll stick with the drums until these wear out then maybe switch. What do they do about the hydraulic aspect of TT disc brakes???

TeJay
 

TeJay

Well-known member
Slaytop,
I don't know much about the magnetic trailer brakes. That's not something that I've had to learn yet, but I'm sure I'll learn soon. I guess because of the magnet they might be able to adjust in both directions since the magnet does not care which way the drum is turning. Regular shoe brakes attach the shoes with springs to the anchor pin at the top and the adjusting cable is always towards the front. When you backup and stop the brake shoes are wedged against the drum (that wedging action is called self-actuating) which causes them to shift at the bottom which pulls on the cable. If they move enough the cable pulls up on a lever which is held against the star wheel. When you release the pressure a spring pulls the lever down and the star wheel moves down adjusting the shoe out one notch. That system can only work when going backwards (forwards if the manufacturer set it up that way), but not both ways.

TeJay
 
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