BigHorn or the competition?

bcfast

bcfast
I am diligently educating myself with all things RV. Of course, I have a champaigne taste and a more "beer-like" budget. I love the Landmark, but it is outside my price range. I really like the Carriage Cameo, but it's on the fringe of my price range..I could swing it, but not comfortably. So, Im looking at the Big Horn and comparing it with coaches like the Jayco Designer...same price range and also a nice coach. I would like to hear from any of you as to your comparison shopping...what else were/are you looking at and why. Wanting to do the apples-to-apples thing and be fair about it before I sign on the dotted line.

Thanks,
Brian
 

rosco

Active Member
Brian.. I can't help you .. I have the same problem.. I love the Landmark but like the price and weight of both Jayco and Bighorn... I have not (bottom line) priced the Bighorn.. But I have priced the Jayco through RV direct...They have the best price.... Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide.. The one thing in favor of Jayco is the Mor-Ryde suspension not offered on Bighorn.. But I feel that Heartland will do a better job with service and warranty.. Just look at Scott on this site he is always there with answers and detailed information .. I will make up my mind next year at the Tampa Show .. Meanwhile I keep on researching... Good luck
 
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Jeff

Guest
Big Horn Vs. Jayco Designer!

Hi Brian:

I must say this: I was just over at our Jayco Dealer in Illinois, not more than a week ago.

I asked if they had any Designers on the lot and they had 2. A 35 Ft. and 38 ft.
Both were nice trailers, but after looking at both of them and having a pretty good eye for quality, I would say go with the Big Horn. The cabinets in the Big Horn are Maple, the Designer, some kind of wrapped wood, could see the cheapness of it, without opening a door. The counter tops are made of plastic and very cheap looking, (set something hot on them, without a pot holder and bye bye counter top)

Now, I don't own a Big Horn, but I've been to the factory enough times to know quality when I see it. If I had a choice to make, I'd pick the Big Horn.

Just so you know also, before I bought my Landmark, I did seriously consider the Designer, I think at that time it was called Legacy, now it's all the same.

You can't go wrong with Heartland!

Take Care.

Jeff
 

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AbNormal

Guest
The cabinets in the Big Horn are Maple
I too, am in the "serious looking" phase of selecting another RV. We've looked at both the Big Horn, and Landmark series.

However, I didn't find the "cabinets" to be solid maple in either of the two lines. The "doors and fronts" are definitely maple, but the "box" (the part I typically call 'the cabinets' ), were all vinyl warpped. On the Landmark, the vinyl very closely matches the doors/drawers, but the "cabinets" are definitely not maple. In fact, we were disappointed to note that they weren't, given the difference in price between the Big Horn, and Landmark. I realize there are other "upgrades" standard on the Landmark that reflect in the price, however.

Our current fifth wheel does have solid wood (maple) cabinetry and doors, and I would be anxious to learn if Heartland will be adding this feature for 2006. It has become a "must have", for us.

Regards
 

fireflipper

EX-Travel Bug
fireflipper

I am really starting to like this forum. As for you trying to decide which to buy, I traded a Carriage Cameo LXI in on a Landmark. Have had a few problems, but with a rolling home that is to be expected. I noticed you are in central Florida, I am from Palm Beach. If you decide to buy a Bighorn you will like it. Try and call Butch at RV's For Less in Knoxville Tenn. He may surprise you with the price and will probably arrange for delivery if you need it. Good Luck.
 

Ray Robinson

Landmark and Bighorn Sales
Bighorn vs Competition

Brian

I'm Ray Robinson and I'm the West US Sales Representative for Heartland Bighorn. I noticed you post, and had to add my 2 cents. I recently joined Heartland after 8 years in the retail end of the RV business. I'm familiar with Jayco, as well as most of the other brands of fifthwheel on the market today.

First, check the weights. If a RV manufacturer doesn't list it as a standard feature, they don't have to list it as part of their UVW. Most manufacturers, including Jayco mention in their liturature something like :

Sometimes referred to as "Dry Weight." UVW means the typical weight of this trailer as built at the factory. The UVW, as used in product literature and other promotional materials, does not include cargo, fresh water, LP gas, options or dealer-installed accessories. quote from Jayco website..

Manufacturers do it this way so they can post lighter UVW's, but their "standard" trailer doesn't even include a ladder or awning. You're forced to order in packages and other individual options to get a coach with any decent options. You have to add the weight for these packages and options. A Bighorn comes STANDARD with all the options you'd expect in a coach of this price range. Hence OUR WEIGHTS ARE MORE ACCURATE by as much as 1500 lbs in some cases. Please see your Bighorn brochure to see what's STANDARD on our coach.

Cabinetry: I think Jeff meant the Landmark, not the Bighorn, had solid maple cabinetry. AbNormal mentioned that the Landmark was not solid maple, but he must have been looking at an earlier VIN, because we have gone to solid maple on the Landmark.
The Bighorn uses Middleberry Hardwood Products cabinet doors and drawers. They even insert rubber expansion "BB's" in the joints to allow for expansion and contraction in the raised panel, so the perimeter joints don't crack. I'm not sure what Jayco is using, but the industry standard is an "Endura" cabinet door, which is not solid wood even though the liturature says it is. It is a composite (sawdust) raised panel with a vinyl wrap. While our cabinet styles and rails (framing) is a vinyl wrap, feel around behind, inside the cabinets, and notice that our cabinet framing is drilled and screwed Banac wood. Banac is a hardwood that is lighter than Oak, and we wrap it so that the color matches. There are different types of wrapped cabinetry, so feel for the drilled screw holes. If it's not drilled, it's a particle board wrapped cabinet style and rail.

I agree 100% with Jeff when it comes to countertops. Other brands at our price point are using ANYTHING BUT REAL NAME BRAND CORIAN. High gloss fiberglass, formica, and "granite impregnated composite" countertops are out there, but only Bighorn at this modest price point is using real name brand Corian countertops.

I've only talked about the things AbNormal mentioned, and this is already lengthy. Just like a long winded salesman! I recently sold my home and moved to Indiana to represent Hearland after seeing my first Bighorn, so you might say I "bought" one. I'd be glad to visit more about our product with you if you'd like. You can contact me at: ray@heartlandrvs.com

Thanks for letting me share!

Sincerely

Ray
 

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Jeff

Guest
Thanks Ray!

Ray:

Thanks for the excellent post on Landmarks and Big Horns.

It is certainly a Big Plus having someone on the Forum who really knows the product.

My Wife (Brenda) and I will be custom ordering a new 2006 Mt. Rushmore very soon. Looking forward to that!

Thanks again,

Jeff
 

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AbNormal

Guest
Yep, it's me again ...

Ray, it's great to have you join the forum, and this discussion. Feel free to inject your point of view at any time. I welcome your comments. Especially, since we are "in the market" at the moment, and have a good list of "needs" and "would likes".

AbNormal mentioned that the Landmark was not solid maple, but he must have been looking at an earlier VIN, because we have gone to solid maple on the Landmark.
I didn't even think to note the VIN number, but this unit was a 2005 Mt Rushmore at a dealer in Mt Vernon, WA. We feel the 'Grand Canyon' floorplan would be more to our liking however, and the dealer indicated they would be receiving one in a week, or two. I'm sure we'll drive down from B.C. to view it, as we are anxious to make our decision. I'll be sure to check for "the good news" in this unit.

Cheers...
 

rosco

Active Member
competition

Ray... You mean that landmark and Bighorn dry weight includes water, propane etc... or are you just refering to the main hard components of the unit.... I am concerned about the weight... I like the Mt Rushmore but after you add dual panes, larger fridge, 2nd AC ,Fireplace, Washer and dryer... plus all your stuff ..you have to be at the limit or over the limit for F350 super cab loaded at about 15,500 lbs of pulling power....:confused: What say you...thanks ... I really like both the landmark and the bighorn but I am concerned about the weight.. I know my two Dodge friends on this forum say no problem pulling with the Dodge but .. It's got to be close to the limit and I think the Ford pulls just a little better than the dodge.. Ha Ha
 

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Ray Robinson

Landmark and Bighorn Sales
RV Weights

Hey Rosco

I meant that Landmarks and Bighorns come standard with most all the features an RV'er would need in their unit. By including a lot of standard features (that are included in our posted weight), our base weights are much closer to the actual weight of the unit. Most other manufacturers include almost nothing as standard, therefore, they can post a "lighter" base weight.

Yes, you would have to add some weight for dual panes, 12 cubic foot refer, washer/dryer, etc....

but now the good news: (in my humble opinion)

I came from the retail world, and have several Landmark customers on the road. Of the dozen or so customers that bought from me, I can think of 3 of them, right offhand, that are using 3/4 ton's with their Landmarks. Not that I'd necessarily recommend those trucks, but my point is, an F350, especially if it's the new 6.0L engine, would be more than sufficient to handle a Landmark. I sold 2 39' Tetons in my last year in sales, both of them to owners of F350's. I think we all know that Teton = heavy. :)

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to put you in contact with a few of my Landmark customers. Also, feel free to call me if you'd like. 574.266.8751

Oh, and one last thing: I know better than to take sides in a truck debate, but here's a photo of my rig. :D
 

rosco

Active Member
Ray, thanks for the quick response. I appreciate your hands on experience and the fact you are straight with the facts. I have been trying the bait Jim and Jeff on the truck issue but to date no luck.. Ha Ha.. It's all in fun ... That part of it is all fun.. Selecting the proper unit is real serious business and I again appreciate your input.. By the way any idea on the weight of the major add ons.. Dual panes, washer, fireplace etc... I have a rough idea but the real weight would be nice... Have a great day... By the way I think Heartland has the best pre-sale customer service... I hope the after sale is a good...:) P.S. I did not get the picture of your TV.. Do I need to do something computer wise???
 
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Ray Robinson

Landmark and Bighorn Sales
Rosco


I will get some real close weights for you on the options you mentioned. Your F350 is a "Mack Daddy" tow vehicle, so I really think you'll be ok!

About the photo, I have it saved, but it is too large to upload, so I'm trying to learn how to "re-size" it. Anyhow, it's a stock '02 F250 with no airbags, extra springs, computer chips, etc., and has the old 7.3 Powerstroke. I have pulled Landmarks with it before, just to RV shows, delivering for customers, etc., and it did fine, but if I used a Landmark full time, I'd have your truck.

As far as "pre sale service", thank you for your kind comments. We enjoy our work, and this business, so it's really our pleasure to take part in this sort of thing.

I'll get back to you on the weights and photo. Have a great day.

Ray
 

bcfast

bcfast
I'm glad that this thread has turned into a good discussion! Ray, thanks for your insider-comments and education! There are certainly some build-quality and component issues to consider here. I've only had the opportunity to see one BH in person. I was immediately put off by the white 'wagon wheels' and Chinese tires. Then, I found out I'd have to install Mor-Ride myself, no disk brakes, etc. I was pretty bummed about the whole thing, frankly. Now I'm leaning back in the BH direction. It does have a bunch of stock features!
 

rosco

Active Member
Thanks Ray ... I just knew there was a Ford in your life.. Ha Ha .... Yes "Bcfast" this is a great forum and its getting better all the time thanks to all the good folks who care about our lifestyle or in my case my future lifestyle and all the products and information.. and help by participating and sharing ... Have a great evening .
 

Ray Robinson

Landmark and Bighorn Sales
At long last, I finally learned how to get the photo to post. It took me forever to read the owners manual on my camera to figure out how to "re-size" the file. As I said, if I owned a Landmark, I'd have the extra set of wheels and tires.;)

from bcfast
"was immediately put off by the white 'wagon wheels' and Chinese tires. Then, I found out I'd have to install Mor-Ride myself, no disk brakes, etc. I was pretty bummed about the whole thing, frankly."

bcfast, thanks for your interest.

First, Aluminum Rims are a popular option on the Bighorn, so if you buy, you can order yours with the upgrade rims.

As far as the "Chinese" tires, I've looked into Kenda, our tire mfgr. They've been in business since 1962 and have offices overseas and in the United States. They are ISO 9001 Certified (Iternational Organization of Standards) They are also QS 9000 Certified. (Quality system of the "big 3" U.S. auto manufacturers) I know that tire quality is a HUGE concern, due to heat and detreading issues on RV tires, but so far we havn't had any failures on a Kenda tire. It's also safe to say there are several other RV manufacturers using Kenda tires on their fifthwheels.

More Ride suspension is not an option at this time on Bighorn, as the weights are considerably less than Landmark. To a certain extent, some manufacturers use More Ride as a remedy for improper weight disribution caused by poor holding tank placement, axle placement and floorplan design. All our units are CAD (computer aided design) drafted, and our engineering department knows the weight disribution is correct before we ever build the coach. And lastly, if you could get More Ride, leather furniture, solid granite countertops, body paint, solid maple hardwood cabinetry, power awning, etc., on a Bighorn, then it would be a Landmark! (and cost 20K more)

Disk brakes. What a can of worms. Disk brakes are hydraulic, hence the need for an onboard pump and power supply, lines, fittings, etc. Our slides are hydraulic, but if you have a hydraulic failure on your slide, you will be upset, but you probably won't be killed in a wreck. Brakes are a safety issue, and electric drum brakes are tested, proven, and are more than sufficient to stop a Bighorn. "If it ain't broke,....." Just my humble opinion.:)

I know that dollar for dollar and pound for pound, Bighorn should easily make your "short list" when you're shopping for a fifthwheel.

You all have a great evening, it's been fun! (still working on those option weights for you, Rosco)

Ray
 

Ray Robinson

Landmark and Bighorn Sales
Still no photo

OK, so I've obviously NOT solved the picture mystery. Rosco, how did you insert that big fancy photo of your landmark????
 

rosco

Active Member
Ray, thanks for the response to bcfast, I was also interrested in your comments on the bighorn and tires... By the way its not me with the photo, it's Jeff... I have trouble just typing a message .. photos are way beyond my abilities... ... I look forward to the weight info.... I'll probably end up with the landmark and I appreciate your comments on your experience with the new Ford F350 beeing able to handle the landmark.... always nice talking with you enjoy your evening ... kindest regards,,
 
Brian,
We are in the process of ordering a Big Horn 3670 RL. We made this choice because of quality (we had issues with a previous trailer from another manufacturer) and floor plan. We checked out Montana, Cedar Creek, Cardinal, all Newmar products, Jayco and probably some others that I've forgotten. As I've said, floorplan was very important to us. We loved the floorplan of our previous trailer (the one with the quality issues) so we wanted to come as close to that as possible.
We also looked at the Landmark and thought it was a wonderful rig, but it was a little expensive for us although probably well worth the money. In addition to this my wife prefered the interior colors and cabinet finish of the Big Horn over that of the Landmark. 'Just personal preference here.
When we ordered our previous 5th wheel in 2005 we found that the rigs with real hardwood cabinets cost somewhere in the $90,000.00 range. Not so with Heartland products. We can get that same quality, fit & finish for much less so we decided on the Big Horn.
I hope all this has helped you.
Good luck.
Warren
 

WRIGHT ll

retired Oklahoma Chapter Leaders
I might as well chime in here too. We will soon get our BH 3400RE as soon as the dealer is finished with it. We've been RVing for many years having started out in a REAL tent trailer and moving on to a KZ Sportsmen, then to a Keystone Challenger and now to the Bighorn. When we did the PDI on the Sportsmen we had 57 different items needing repaired prior to taking possession. The Challenger was much better, with only a few items. The BH has some issues, but they are all minor and should be corrected prior to us taking possession. There are many things which I found to be "nice to have" items on the BH which I didn't find on the Keystone Bigsky, and not even offered by them. We looked at a lot of rigs at the OKC RV show and did a lot of comparing and found that price to quality ratio on the BH was a little better than most other rigs in our price range. This allowed me to get more of the options that I wanted and could now afford better. Taht's my two cents. BTW, Hey Ray hope to see you soon in OKC.
 
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