Possible Problem?

Possible problem?

I was checking out the Golden Gate yesterday trying to get everything ready for the trip to the rally. I came accross something that has me concerned, It looks like the tires have been rubbing the shocks I cannot see how this is possible unless something major is wrong. Has anyone else have this problem or am I worrying for no reason??? I have check the serial number against the recall and our rig is not included nor did we get a letter.

Dave

Dave, "redneck-life" has a 3670 with the same problem and has had the axle people check it out and said they did not know why the problem was occuring. He did not blow a tire but it was close. I will tell him about you deal and have him contact you.........

On my 3600RL the passenger side rear tire rubs the shock. Rubbing occurs only on sharp turns. Measure to distance between all shocks and tires, on mine the drivers side clearance is 1-1/2" vs 3/4" on the passenger side. The springs and u-bolts may not be centered on the axle flange and/or the spring hangers are not welded vertical. Mine is a little of both.

Lippert's frame manual explains how to verify axle alignment by measuring from center of hitchpin to each axle. Variation should be less than 1/4".

As for the shocks, has anyone ever seen shocks positioned at a 45 deg angle or more from vertical of axle? Mine is. This method only allows the shocks to be 50% or less efficient. With very little extra effort from the engineering department, the shocks could have been mounted vertical so they would work as intended. Lippert does not install the axles or shocks on their frames, Heartland does the installation when the frame is in the first position of the assembly line.

I thought they had "discovered" that the Mor/ryde worked better without the shocks. If that was the case I would just take 'em off.

ChopperBill said:

I thought they had "discovered" that the Mor/ryde worked better without the shocks. If that was the case I would just take 'em off.

Click to expand...

ChopperBill,
I would agree with taking them off because they are useless the way they are installed. Maybe the person that discovered mor/ryde worked better without them designed the shock installation in the first place. I had a Pace Arrow 34' motorhome with a mor/ryde rear axle, it had 4 shocks per axle and all were installed very very verticle.
Forrest

tires are doing it on my new 2008 3760 model

my name is redneck-life I have a 2008 3760 big horn ,my back right side tire is hitting on the shock, worn a hole almost all the way through it, it has been in the shop for about 4 weeks ,but no one can seem to found out what is going on, so they are just putting a new tire on and hoping,I just go away, I just hope I don't blow out a tire and kill someone. I feel something needs to be done to put this back on heartland or the axle company. I'm still paying the payment on a 5th wheel I feel is unsafe. Can anyone out there help

I have forwarded some of your questions to engineering for some input from them, but I can tell you that the Trail-Air system is not the Mor-Ryde, they are designed differently, and the shocks do play a part in the Trail-Air riding smooth, so don't take them off. As for the angle of the shocks, I am getting an answer from someone who knows, but I know that the shocks are just part of the overall suspension solution that Trail-Air has designed and how they work exactly (like which angle is best) with their center piece has been carefully calculated. RVs are not cars, so it shouldn't surprise you when the shocks on these axles do not function the same way.
Regarding redneck-life's comments, both the dealer and Heartland and Lippert were not able to recreate the tire touching the shock. The conclusion was that this only could have happened when the coach was being turned at a severe angle. Everything measured exactly where it should be and the tire was not touching the shock; nor did it touch the shock under any typical turning scenarios that they attempted at the dealership. I told him via the phone when I talked to him a couple of weeks ago that beyond literally having Lippert and the dealer and Heartland customer service repair the coach and see that it works correctly under normal conditions, I wasn't sure what else there was to do. Outside of executing a severe turning angle for a prolonged period of time (going back and forth), we just could not recreate a situtation where the tire touched the shock.
ST

Scott,

Thank you for the input. I have signed up for some minor maintenance at the rally. I was not aware of this problem before 2 days ago, is it possible for someone to take a quick look at my shocks/tire problem and let me know if I have a safety issue before we leave for home on Sunday?

dave

Dave B. Yes, it possible for someone to look at it. Can you get some digital shots and send them to Jim Fenner. Call him at 574.262.8030 (fennerj@heartlandrvs.com).
ST

Scott,

Thank you, I will do it today.

dave

As I posted above, check the clearance between the shock and wheel, depending on the tire width will determine the clearance. The clearance on both sides should be equal. If not, then the axle is not centered on the frame properly. If both are equal, hook up and make a shape turn right or left. You will be supprised to find the amount of flex and side movement in the springs and tires. Have someone stand by the axles when turning and listen to the popping and grinding noise. Stop in the middle of the turn and remeasure. You will find out why the tires might rub the shocks. Depending on the tow angle of the rv will determine the pivot point between the rear axles. If more weight is on the rear axle, then the front axle will tend to slide (scuff) more when turning and the pivot point will be closer to the rear axle.

When driving on the highway, try to align the rig with the white lane line. You will discover that it is almost impossible to do. Why? Most all highways are crowned (sloped) to divert water to the shoulded and with this condition the trailer tends to drift to the right. I have also noticed most of the blowouts occur on the right rear axle because of the side drift, tire scuffing, and more weight is transferred on that tire. These three conditions will cause the tire to roll on the side wall creating excessive heat and side wall failure. Then BOOM.

Forrest;

Your observations are right on. To carry the discussion a little farther, I start off with 110 pounds in each tire. With my Doran, I can check tire pressure when I want. During the course of the day, especially on a hot "90 +" day, I like to watch the pressures. Most of the time, my right rear tire has increased up to five pounds more than the left front, which is under the kitchen and is the heavier side. When we parked Monday afternoon, the right rear was 125#, both front tires were 121# and the left rear was 123#. I have the MorRyde suspension, no shocks and still running the Trail America Tires.

John

jp,

I have not installed the pressure monitors, as of yet. I carry a noncontact infared laser temperature gun. Your increase of tire pressure is directly related to the increase in temperature. My right rear tire runs about 3 deg hotter than the left rear and 5 degrees hotter than the front axle tires.

Forrest

I feel so much better with the Pressure Pro system. I see so many torn up RV's coming into the park that had tire failures and didn't know it until somebody waved them down. By then it was too late. The Pressure Pro is not instantaneous. They reset every 5 minutes and gives an alarm if you have a 12% reduction in pressure from the original setting. My hope is that if I ever have a instant failure, I get the signal before the tire self destructs. Slow leak, no problem. We would be okay then. I haven't bought a pyrometer yet. I still use the hands on method for tires and hubs. I'll probably get one as they are much more accurate than my hands.

John

JP,

http://www.harborfreight.com has a pyrometer for $39.00.

Forrest



Admin: Added link --> http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=non-contact+&Submit=Go

Thats a decent price.. Any downside to having a Harbor Freight brand rather than a 'name brand'??

phranc;
I had so much stuff from harbor freight before we sold out, you wouldn't believe. Their stuff is not professional grade but for the layman, it works great and their warranty is good too. I still have some of their stuff with me. I don't hesitate in buying from them.
John

Forest - Thank You for bringing up the very real issue of the highways being crowned which puts an extreme amount of extra pressure on the right side wheels, especially the rear one. That is a fact that I have NEVER heard anyone on this forum talk about before and it just so happens that I heard a long story about that yesterday from a tire expert.
You are absolutely right on that one.

Thanks John,, I like the idea of a $40 saving..

John and others,
Has anyone thought that if we are getting a 15 lb. increase in tire pressure due to heat build up, maybe we should not start out with 110 lb. cold. I for one run 90 lb. cold with no problems and would worry if I knew that the pressure was that high after heating up. Just my two cents worth.

Ken