Completely confused over tow ratings.

I am looking at purchasing a used Ford F-250 2WD, V-10, extended cab, short bed. It's in fabulous shape and the deal I have in the works is really reasonable. What I thought I understood about towing specs has been turned upside down. I have never paid attention to published maximum trailer weight ratings in truck brochures. I have always calculated whether or not a truck is big enough by using the formula of GCWR (combined maximum loaded truck and trailer weight) minus GVWR (maximum loaded truck weight) equals maximum allowable trailer weight. If my trailer weight comes in under that weight, the truck will work fine.

Using that formula I should be able to pull an 11,800 pound trailer. My trailer is less than 10,000 pounds. No problem, right? That's what I thought until I decided to dig deeper. I've been using a couple of those weight calculation worksheets that work with CAT scales and according to them this truck isn't big enough. I don't have actual weights for the trailer and I don't even own the truck yet. I tried to fudge the actual scale weights with figures I thought were on the heavy side but I didn't enter anything over any gross weight ratings. No matter how I adjusted them, the trailer was too heavy for the truck. Now I am completely afraid of a truck I thought was WAY bigger than what I needed.

This shouldn't be this difficult. Is anyone out there towing a Sundance or something comparable that has a GVWR of 9,900 pounds using a 2008 Ford F-250 extended cab, 2WD, V-10, short bed? I'd like to know your experiences. Thanks!

Paul_W said:

I am looking at purchasing a used Ford F-250 2WD, V-10, extended cab, short bed. It's in fabulous shape and the deal I have in the works is really reasonable. What I thought I understood about towing specs has been turned upside down. I have never paid attention to published maximum trailer weight ratings in truck brochures. I have always calculated whether or not a truck is big enough by using the formula of GCWR (combined maximum loaded truck and trailer weight) minus GVWR (maximum loaded truck weight) equals maximum allowable trailer weight. If my trailer weight comes in under that weight, the truck will work fine.

Using that formula I should be able to pull an 11,800 pound trailer. My trailer is less than 10,000 pounds. No problem, right? That's what I thought until I decided to dig deeper. I've been using a couple of those weight calculation worksheets that work with CAT scales and according to them this truck isn't big enough. I don't have actual weights for the trailer and I don't even own the truck yet. I tried to fudge the actual scale weights with figures I thought were on the heavy side but I didn't enter anything over any gross weight ratings. No matter how I adjusted them, the trailer was too heavy for the truck. Now I am completely afraid of a truck I thought was WAY bigger than what I needed.

This shouldn't be this difficult. Is anyone out there towing a Sundance or something comparable that has a GVWR of 9,900 pounds using a 2008 Ford F-250 extended cab, 2WD, V-10, short bed? I'd like to know your experiences. Thanks!

Click to expand...

You should be fine

http://www.ford.com/assets/pdf/towing/07RVTTgdeMay07.pdf

It looks like a 2008 V10 can handle a 14k or a 16k if you have the right gear ratio. However in my humble opinion I would never tow a large trailer without a Diesel. Much more power mainly due to torque. I think your gas mileage would be severe compaired to a diesel. You never know what conditions you will be pulling your trailer and you will always want enough power to do the job. Traveling to one of the campgounds we stayed at in just a few days I was pulling up a mild grade and into a very stiff wind. I kept my speed down to about 50mph and was only getting about 6mpg. I am really glad I have a 45gal aux tank.

I think you would be much happier with a diesel. But that is just my opinion.

FWIW
BC

TXBobcat said:

I think you would be much happier with a diesel. But that is just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Mine too, but as long as your happy!

That's what I thought too. I've poured over that Ford document until my eyes were ready to bleed. You have to be really careful not to accept at face value their "Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight" number as it doesn't take into account passengers, fluids, or king pin weight. My formula does though and I still should be under. Not according to the scale worksheets though.

I get the whole diesel thing guys but it is really cost prohibitive for me not just in purchase price but also maintenance and fuel. I currently tow with a 6.0L Chevy Vortec V8 and have had no issues. This Ford engine is bigger at 6.8L and the rear end is a 4.1 compared with the 3.73 I have now.

The other thing that is confusing is that my trailer is an XLT model that Heartland touts as being a 1/2 ton towable. Still confused.

Since you will be spending money on another tow vehicle why not just get an F350 SRW and then you will be good to go. Remember that sometime down the road you will probably upgrade to another RV and then you will already have the tow vehicle.

jmgratz said:

Since you will be spending money on another tow vehicle why not just get an F350 SRW and then you will be good to go. Remember that sometime down the road you will probably upgrade to another RV and then you will already have the tow vehicle.

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I made that mistake...

Now we want a Cyclone! Which is why I'm looking at HDT's.

I have the same problem. I bought my F250 to pull a 29ft Forest River Wildcat not thinking about fulltiming. After almost a year of fulltiming we had been looking for a bigger trailer. I was looking at a 3670 but it has a GVWR of 16k and that was more than I should pull with my truck. Before I bought my F250 a friend suggested that I buy a F350. The thing I looked at was that the F350 was a $1,000 more and had an extra spring to support bed weight. I am at my limit and my F250 is doing well but I would like to buy a new F350. I will have to wait until I can get a bit more cash, but would have been better off if I had done it in the beginning. What is it... 20/20 hind site.. That is what we are trying to tell you. Experience is a great teacher.


BC

I was looking at Fords last year and one salesman described the V10 by saying "it'll pass anything except a gas station."

IMHO, you should get a diesel no matter what brand. More power for pulling and a much better trans. The fuel milage between the 2 will make up the difference over the long haul. You could put 300K on a diesel and maybe 100K on a gas engine. The tow ratings are higher on a diesel powered truck. Again JMHO

Paul_W,
Everyone is going to continue to tell you to get a diesel. I understood what you said earlier, that isnt an option. Soo.... to help with your original question, there are so many different ways people use to calculate all the weights, some are helpfull, some are just confusing. The 250 will be fine pulling that trailer and the v-10 will pull it anywhere you want to go with it.

My only other comment is this. I dont know what your reasoning is exactly for wanting to switch from a 2500 (I suppose) with the 6.0 vortec to the 250 with the 6.8 v-10. Both tow vehicles are fullly capable of towing your camper. Both have the same downside, They burn ALOT of gasoline when towing. Unless you have a major problem that we dont know about with your current truck im not sure that this "upgrade?" gets you anywhere in the long run.


But yes, a 3/4 ton truck is plenty for your rig and a gas motor from any of the manufacturers will get you there. Just my opinion.

Wesley

Paul, I echo what Wesley just posted. You have an 2008 2500HD Chevy. Sorry didn't read your sig. So why would want to buy another truck? Is there something wrong with it? Seems to me that you are buying 2 more cylinders to burn more fuel. What does your current truck have as a GCVW rating and what is the pin weight rating? Make sure that you are reading your manual as to a 5th wheel rating and not a pull trailer. I know the engine combo's make a difference in the weight ratings. If your 2500 came with the tow package, then it should have 4:10 gears. I have an 07 classic 2500HD with the D/A. I looked up "your" truck as if was an 07. My manual says, GCVW rating is 16K...trailer weight of 10200# with a pin weight of up to 3K. I believe that the 08's have a higher rating. I dont see any reason to trade trucks.

Don't worry about your towing weight as you are well under the 14,000 lbs. Our Sundance ultra-lites start at 7,200 lbs. and mine loaded up to the hilt comes in at 8,850lb. Only the newer diesels can pass me going up a grade as the V-10 has more hp and more than enough torque to tow a Sundance XLT. easily. Research the members videos V-10 vs. diesel towing @ http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php you will be surprised how the 3 valve V-10 does against 7.3, 6.0 ford diesels.

Finally a question I can answer. My Chevy has an 8 foot bed. It is an absolute hog in a parking lot, horrible turning radius, and most of all IT WON'T FIT IN MY GARAGE! We keep our brand new Sundance on a permanent sight during the year. The only time we tow is to take it out to go to the beach once a summer. We are at least 6-7 years away from even thinking about retirement or a different trailer. I simply want a more practical ride that won't cost me an arm and a leg to fuel and maintain but one that won't blow a tranny or a rear differential in the middle of my vacation! I can't imagine this Ford doing either with my setup.

By the way, I just made a trip to the scales with the borrowed truck. It weighs in at 6,500 lbs with a full tank of fuel. That being said, I could fill that truck with four (4) two hundred pound adults, a one hundred pound hitch, 1,420 pounds of king pin weight, and 30 gallons of fuel and still be under the GVWR by almost 400 pounds. I'm feeling MUCH better now.

TXBobcat said:

It looks like a 2008 V10 can handle a 14k or a 16k if you have the right gear ratio. However in my humble opinion I would never tow a large trailer without a Diesel. Much more power mainly due to torque. I think your gas mileage would be severe compaired to a diesel. You never know what conditions you will be pulling your trailer and you will always want enough power to do the job. Traveling to one of the campgounds we stayed at in just a few days I was pulling up a mild grade and into a very stiff wind. I kept my speed down to about 50mph and was only getting about 6mpg. I am really glad I have a 45gal aux tank.

I think you would be much happier with a diesel. But that is just my opinion.

FWIW
BC

Click to expand...

There
is no question that if you are going to tow very many miles a Diesel is the way to go. So much more relaxing that listening to an engine/fan whining all the time at high RPM.

Paul_W said:

Finally a question I can answer. My Chevy has an 8 foot bed. It is an absolute hog in a parking lot, horrible turning radius, and most of all IT WON'T FIT IN MY GARAGE! We keep our brand new Sundance on a permanent sight during the year. The only time we tow is to take it out to go to the beach once a summer. We are at least 6-7 years away from even thinking about retirement or a different trailer. I simply want a more practical ride that won't cost me an arm and a leg to fuel and maintain but one that won't blow a tranny or a rear differential in the middle of my vacation! I can't imagine this Ford doing either with my setup.

By the way, I just made a trip to the scales with the borrowed truck. It weighs in at 6,500 lbs with a full tank of fuel. That being said, I could fill that truck with four (4) two hundred pound adults, a one hundred pound hitch, 1,420 pounds of king pin weight, and 30 gallons of fuel and still be under the GVWR by almost 400 pounds. I'm feeling MUCH better now.

Click to expand...

OK, now we know more about what you want. You want a shorter wheel base that is easier to handle and will fit in your garage. And you probably wont actually tow the rig but once a year. So the answer still is yes the truck you are looking at will be fine pulling your rig. good luck and happy camping.

Wesley

Go for a diesel and you won't look back.Gas engines are not ment for hauling.The fuel economy of a v10 would scare me.
If you purchase a diesel your weights will all work out for you.

I love it when all the diesel guys and gas guys get started on which is the best. The only real discussion should be is what are you willing to scarifice on and what are you not? How much pulling do you plan to do or not do? Our Sundance 2800RL crosses the scales at 8852# fully loaded and I'm pulling with a F250 SRW 4x4 short bed extended cab. It is a 2011 with the new 6.2L V8 engine. I would be less than honest to admit that the gas mileage is pretty bad, but I love the truck. It has tons of power, lots of bed room, a great ride, and handles the Sundace with no issues.

We just finished 5400 miles on the last trip from home (Sebree, Ky) to Townsend, TN to Rapid City, SD before returning home. The best advice I know is exactly what someone gave me before buying this truck. If you are not comfortable with a diesel be cool with a gas. You'll get there just like anyone else, you just may not get there as fast. But, I'll tell you I had not issues at all in SD with this truck and the way it pulled. That V-10 should be even stronger. I just locked out 5th and 6th gear when I needed to maintain a few higher RPM's (2200 - 2400) and went on up the hills. I tryed to maintain something between 60-65mph, but the F250 had no problem hitting 70+ anytime I wanted too.

We make 2 or 3 trips like this a year. I will admit that if I was trying to full-time RV living, I'd bought a diesel. With that said, when at home I much prefer the gas for running around. As for the life of a gas, the new engines if maintained have a life just as anyother engine and it is reasonable to expect life long past 100k. I've driven a Ford truck for 40 years and never worried about engine failure.

I'll say this also. I bought the gas for many of the same basic reasons you have expressed around cost and maintenance issues.

Tom

If you are towing fairly short trips and use the truck for running around I think gas should be a consideration. Long trips there really is no discussion at all.

Diesel or gas, when you look at towing you basically want to focus more on your GVWR more than the GCWR. The pin weight and rear axle axle rating ( I believe) are your most important numbers. If you don't go over your GVWR then I highly doubt you're going to go over the GCWR.

just example...

say you have a 22,000 GCWR and your truck weighs 8,000lbs. Now you should ( by number ) be able to pull a 14,000lb trailer.
but your pin weight is 2,800lbs. (Just taking 20% of trailer weight, normal is 15-25% trailer is usually the pin weight)
So your trucks GVWR is 9,900lbs. If truck is 8,000lbs + 2,800 lbs = 10,800 lbs so the truck is overloaded by 900lbs but you're fine for your GCWR.

I threw in the rear axles specs from the Ford Source Book for the 2008 models.
F250 axles are rated @ 6200lbs. <-- This is the number I wouldn't want to go over.