CJ-4 oil, will we have problems?

dieselengineer

Charter Member
It appears that CI-4 rated oil is going away. With the older diesel's (pre 2007) this maybe a problem. The replacement oil CJ-4 rating is formulated for the new diesel's (2007 and 2008). If you have a pre 2007 diesel, I hope you have a lot of oil stock plied, because it is hard to fine the old stuff.
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
My understanding is the new oil for the 08 trucks is compatable with the older diesel engines. How old is older I do not know but I was told my 05 F-350 will be able to use the newer oil. HOPE I heard this right.
 

dieselengineer

Charter Member
Ok here is another link

Comparing Oils

Fleet managers have many decisions to make when deciding which oils to buy.
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Source: CONCRETE PRODUCER MAGAZINE
Publication date: November 1, 2006

By Paul Abelson
If you haven't yet negotiated your lube oil contract for 2007, you'll soon discover that you'll be making decisions you never faced before. For example, Should you buy CI-4 Plus or CJ-4 as your engine oil, or should you stock both?
For the first time in memory, two grades of diesel engine oils will be available from most suppliers. Previously, new diesel oil formulations were “backward compatible” and improved. This meant they could be used instead of any previous formulation with increased performance in almost every respect, and the preceding grade of oil quickly disappeared.
The oil developed for engines with 2007 emissions controls is different. So much has changed that CJ-4 uses different chemical technologies. And because CJ-4 is different, most suppliers will continue to provide the older CI-4 Plus for the foreseeable future.
To decide which oil is right for your fleet, you need to understand the differences. To help visualize how oils compare, engineers use spider graphs. They're called spider graphs because they resemble spider webs. These comparative tools have multiple linear axes, along which results are plotted. The further from the center zero point, the better the performance. Each new specification adds new tests, as shown in the illustration.
Engines produced after Jan. 1, 2007, must meet the world's most stringent emissions controls to date. They will get even tighter in 2010 when another new oil will be available. The most obvious differences between current diesels and 2007 engines are:
1. 2007 on-road engines must use ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) with a maximum of 15 parts-per-million (ppm) sulfur. Today's engines run on low sulfur diesel (LSD) at 500 ppm. Sulfur is an excellent lubricant, but as an impurity, it is a significant contributor to acid formulation in the combustion process. It also contaminates emissions-reduction equipment.
To neutralize acids in engines, oil contains alkaline compounds that convert to sulfated ash during combustion.
2. 2007 on-road engines will need diesel particulate filters (DPFs) with diesel oxidation catalysts (DOCs) to control solids in the exhaust stream. The solids consist of soot and sulfated ash mentioned above. When sulfur contaminates its precious metal, a DOC can't convert the soot to carbon dioxide. Soot and sulfated ash clog the pores and fill the passageways in the ceramic DPF. DOC contamination is the primary reason ULSD, or S15 diesel, has been mandated.
Because sulfur levels are lower, CJ-4 oil needs less alkalinity, expressed as total base number (TBN), than oils used with 500 ppm diesel, S500. CJ-4 oils use “Low SAPS” technology, meaning low sulfated ash, low phosphorous and, low sulfur. That's the oil, not the fuel.
Producers' fleets But there's another factor that clouds the stocking decision. Mixers, dump trucks, and diesel pickups are all on-highway vehicles, but many concrete producers also operate a variety of off-highway and stationary diesels. Non-highway engines are now allowed a diesel fuel that contains up to 5000 ppm sulfur. Sulfur levels for non-road equipment will drop to 500 ppm in June 2007, but will not be required to meet S15 standards until June 2010.
 

katkens

Founding Illinios Chapter Leader-retired
If you google-- cj-4 diesel oil -- then go to any of the major oil companies and read it straight from the horses mouth.
 

ChopperBill

Well-known member
The way I read it I would be more worried about using the old oil in the "07" engines than using new oil in my old engine. :confused:
 

katkens

Founding Illinios Chapter Leader-retired
ChopperBill said:
The way I read it I would be more worried about using the old oil in the "07" engines than using new oil in my old engine. :confused:

I agree on that--- I seem to think what I read so far its a better oil for soot , temp , cold starts and lube properties.----Ken
 

dieselengineer

Charter Member
I agree, the companies selling the product say the new oil is ok for the pre 2007 diesels. However, the oil was design for the 2007 and newer models, not the pre 2007 diesels. however, the question is not if the new oil will work in the pre 2007 diesels, the question is will the new oil damage the pre 2007 diesels in the long run. Surely the oil companies are not going to tell you that the after X number of miles the engine will need a major overhaul. Their answer is change the oil more offen. (customer uses more oil so the oil companies sell more oil, a win / win). It appears that CI-4 oil (older rating) will be only available in bulk (55 gal drums). Why, because fleet owners with pre 2007 diesels are NOT using the newer oils. Time will tell!
 

fireflipper

EX-Travel Bug
Fireflipper

I was told by a frien who changes oil for fleet trucks that the new oil is also suppose to compensate for the lower sulfur in the fuel, since sulfur is a lubricant. It will be some time before the real world tests are in to say what will really happen to the older engines, and this means the older engines as pre 2000's.
 

dieselengineer

Charter Member
Yes, the newer oils (CJ-4) are designed for the ULSD fuels. That is because the TBN number is lower and the oil can not handle the higher sulfur levels of LSD fuels. However, the older oils (CI-4) can handle both LSD and ULSD fuels. The main reason the new oil is produced is for the 2007 and newer diesels since if the old oil is used in the new diesels the emissions system fails within 50 miles. There have been cases where dealers used the wrong oil and damaged the emission system. So oil ratings are important, I hope for the best. Start saving for the new replacement tow vehicle.
 
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