Prospective owner questions for the 32BUDS, Caliber Edition

miboje · May 16, 2012

We have put money down on a 32BUDS Caliber, but it's not a closed deal just yet. I would have preferred a Prime Time LaCrosse, but my fiance is convinced that the North Trail is better built. I'm counting on him to make the right decision.

From what I can tell after perusing info on both manufacturer's Web sites, the construction methods appear very similar. The major difference I can see is the PT LaCrosse has better insulation values. Prime Time reports R-14 fiberglass in the roof, while the R-11 walls and R-14 floor are foam block insulation. Since I will be using the coach as a home office while the kids are off school during the summer, the insulation values are important to me. I don't think the Heartland Caliber delivers in that respect, but I do not know the difference between the characteristics of fiberglass and foam insulation. The salesman says that NT is a better coach and that insulation values do not matter, but he couldn't explain why. R-values certainly do matter in my house. I am aware that the North Trail has been tested to 0 degrees and the underbelly is enclosed and insulated. I wouldn't have that any other way.

Why doesn't Heartland add the radiant foil insulation in their coaches?

I asked my fiance to convince me on why he feels the NT is built better. He said he thought it felt more solid and was quieter inside. I'll give him the fact that it was quieter inside, but he doesn't know how it is built better. I can see why the floors would be more solid with the foam rather than wood and fiberglass and no holes in the floors for heat vents.

We have a 2001 4x4 GMC Sierra 1500 with the factory tow package, 4.8L, 3:73 gear ratio. The dealer said we can tow 8,000 lbs. Isn't this cutting it too close?

So, I'm looking for responses regarding my concerns. I know it is just a camper, but there appears to be better insulated coaches out there. It only makes sense to me to do what is possible to extend the camping season, especially since we live in PA, with a well insulated coach and not use up excessive energy resources to do that. This represents a huge expenditure for us, which I do not take lightly at all, so I really want to feel comfortable and confident going into this. I really wish there was a way for us to use it for a week, tow it on the steep hills, etc. I'd hate to find out that we can only go to certain places because it's too heavy for our TV.

Mcreech · May 16, 2012

miboje said:
We have put money down on a 32BUDS Caliber, but it's not a closed deal just yet. I would have preferred a Prime Time LaCrosse, but my fiance is convinced that the North Trail is better built. I'm counting on him to make the right decision.

From what I can tell after perusing info on both manufacturer's Web sites, the construction methods appear very similar. The major difference I can see is the PT LaCrosse has better insulation values. Prime Time reports R-14 fiberglass in the roof, while the R-11 walls and R-14 floor are foam block insulation. Since I will be using the coach as a home office while the kids are off school during the summer, the insulation values are important to me. I don't think the Heartland Caliber delivers in that respect, but I do not know the difference between the characteristics of fiberglass and foam insulation. The salesman says that NT is a better coach and that insulation values do not matter, but he couldn't explain why. R-values certainly do matter in my house. I am aware that the North Trail has been tested to 0 degrees and the underbelly is enclosed and insulated. I wouldn't have that any other way.

Why doesn't Heartland add the radiant foil insulation in their coaches?

I asked my fiance to convince me on why he feels the NT is built better. He said he thought it felt more solid and was quieter inside. I'll give him the fact that it was quieter inside, but he doesn't know how it is built better. I can see why the floors would be more solid with the foam rather than wood and fiberglass and no holes in the floors for heat vents.

We have a 2001 4x4 GMC Sierra 1500 with the factory tow package, 4.8L, 3:73 gear ratio. The dealer said we can tow 8,000 lbs. Isn't this cutting it too close?

So, I'm looking for responses regarding my concerns. I know it is just a camper, but there appears to be better insulated coaches out there. It only makes sense to me to do what is possible to extend the camping season, especially since we live in PA, with a well insulated coach and not use up excessive energy resources to do that. This represents a huge expenditure for us, which I do not take lightly at all, so I really want to feel comfortable and confident going into this. I really wish there was a way for us to use it for a week, tow it on the steep hills, etc. I'd hate to find out that we can only go to certain places because it's too heavy for our TV.

Let me point out that the reason the Nt was quieter was because we have a thicker Roof- Floor and walls then our competition which translates into a warmer unit during early or late season camping an it also means cooler nights in the middle of Summer. I agree insulation R factor do matter, and R factor's are calculated based on thickenss. You can't take a R-40 pink fiberglass that is 14" thick and shove it in a space that it is 2" thick and say you have an R-40 wall....Insulation doesnt work that way... The North Trail has a 2" wall filled with block foam insulation, if a competitor has a 1.5 wall fill with block foam insulation, the 2 walls dont have the same R-factor and the 2" wall cannot have less....Anther thing you mentioned is huge, NT does not cut holes in your floor. Think about the beating your floor takes and if you cut a hole in it, you just weaken the structure and you want this to last 10-15 years right? We'll floors with holes cut in them will weaken/ crack/ squeak over time and nobody wants that....

I hope this helps

Mike

westxsrt10 · May 16, 2012

I can only comment on the tow vehicle. Your 1500 isn't even close to towing a 35' trailer with that weight.

codycarver · May 16, 2012

Not having a NT I can't comment on the NT specifically but Heartland as a company is Fantastic. In the last two years we have had our BH we have needed to deal with Heartland customer service, mostly for self inflicted repairs. They could not be better to deal with. Heartland has your back after the sale.

We were so impressed that we volunteered to head up the Wyoming chapter of the owners club. If you do close the deal consider joining your local chapter and attending some rallies.

Here is a link you may find helpful for your weight and towing questions.

http://fifthwheelst.com/

miboje · May 16, 2012

Hi Mike - Thank you for taking the time to respond to my queries. Yes, I certainly do appreciate that no holes are placed in the floor for heat ducts. Any holes in the floor will denigrate the integrity of the floor structure, so less is best. Yes, I expect this coach to last us at least 15 years at this price and wear well. And I did notice about the noise reduction in the brochure.

No, you cannot compress fiberglass insulation and expect it to have the same R-value as it would uncompressed. I have no way of knowing if it's compressed if I don't actually see it, though. I have noticed that some coaches are taller than others, but I don't know exactly why. The LaCrosse is 3" taller than the 32BUDS, but I don't know what that means as far as the structure/insulation, or if it means anything at all.

miboje · May 16, 2012

westxsrt10 said:
I can only comment on the tow vehicle. Your 1500 isn't even close to towing a 35' trailer with that weight.

Thank you. I am very concerned about this. I will let my fiance know.

APT · May 16, 2012

miboje said:
We have a 2001 4x4 GMC Sierra 1500 with the factory tow package, 4.8L, 3:73 gear ratio. The dealer said we can tow 8,000 lbs. Isn't this cutting it too close?

No way that truck has an 8000 pound tow rating. Even so, that RV will be over 8000 pounds loaded with a family's camping gear. 8000 pound travel trailer should have 900-1200 pounds of tongue weight. Your truck probably does not have enough payload to handle 1000 pounds of hitch weight plus family inside plus bed full of camping cargo. Power: that 4.8L is weak, combined with an old 4-spd trans. City driving and accelerating will not be fun. It should tow fine on flat highway at 65mph, though.

I recommend looking at least 2000 pounds lighter dry weight. That's going to be far more compromise than insulation values. I think you'll do better upgrading your truck to any 3/4 ton of similar vintage or newer and buying a used RV.

miboje · May 16, 2012

APT said:
No way that truck has an 8000 pound tow rating. Even so, that RV will be over 8000 pounds loaded with a family's camping gear. 8000 pound travel trailer should have 900-1200 pounds of tongue weight. Your truck probably does not have enough payload to handle 1000 pounds of hitch weight plus family inside plus bed full of camping cargo. Power: that 4.8L is weak, combined with an old 4-spd trans. City driving and accelerating will not be fun. It should tow fine on flat highway at 65mph, though.

I recommend looking at least 2000 pounds lighter dry weight. That's going to be far more compromise than insulation values. I think you'll do better upgrading your truck to any 3/4 ton of similar vintage or newer and buying a used RV.

Thank you for your input. So, you are recommending purchasing a used RV and a different truck together for the same price as this new RV rather than just the new RV, is that right?

Mcreech · May 16, 2012

miboje said:
Hi Mike - Thank you for taking the time to respond to my queries. Yes, I certainly do appreciate that no holes are placed in the floor for heat ducts. Any holes in the floor will denigrate the integrity of the floor structure, so less is best. Yes, I expect this coach to last us at least 15 years at this price and wear well. And I did notice about the noise reduction in the brochure.

No, you cannot compress fiberglass insulation and expect it to have the same R-value as it would uncompressed. I have no way of knowing if it's compressed if I don't actually see it, though. I have noticed that some coaches are taller than others, but I don't know exactly why. The LaCrosse is 3" taller than the 32BUDS, but I don't know what that means as far as the structure/insulation, or if it means anything at all.

So the question is how thick is there sidewall, its not the height, its the width that matters. Our sidewall is 2" thick and I believe there is 1.5" thick and our Roof is 4" thick.......its all about the thickness and the insulation we use is block foam, its not the pink panther fiberglass stuff...The block foam comes in 1", 2", 3",4" width....So you cant tell someone a 1.5" wall has more R-factor then a unit that has a 2" wall....Its not possible since we all use the same block foam, just different thickness, depending on the thickness of the wall...

Mike

miboje · May 16, 2012

Mcreech said:
So the question is how thick is there sidewall, its not the height, its the width that matters. Our sidewall is 2" thick and I believe there is 1.5" thick and our Roof is 4" thick.......its all about the thickness and the insulation we use is block foam, its not the pink panther fiberglass stuff...The block foam comes in 1", 2", 3",4" width....So you cant tell someone a 1.5" wall has more R-factor then a unit that has a 2" wall....Its not possible since we all use the same block foam, just different thickness, depending on the thickness of the wall...

Mike

I definitely see your point, Mike. I'm glad people like you are here to share the information about this stuff. Thank you for your input.

PeternLiane · May 16, 2012

We love our North Trail. The quality is unmatched. We looked every where and at every Travel Trailer out there. We looked at new and used trailers. We couldn't find any used North Trails to look at. We found plenty of other used TT's. We know why they were traded in. These TT's were only one to three years old. They didn't stand up. We did find a couple of used North Trails on the internet. We received photos of those NT's. They looked good. We got a good price on the new NT and bought it.

We bought the NT knowing that our TV would be good enough to go where we liked to camp, but it cannot go into the mountains. We had to make the choice on a new trailer that we could tow or a new TV staying with the SOB trailer we didn't like anymore. We chose the new trailer. We'll be getting a New TV in a couple of years.

All of the LaCrosse trailers appear to be just as heavy as the NT32BUDS. I think your TV will do fine on flat lands and little hills but will have problems in the bigger hills.

olyfire · May 16, 2012

We have a 32 BUDS. I pull with a 1 ton and it does fine. The reason for the 1 ton is we used to have a 36 foot 5th wheeler with three slides, very heavy. You can almost forget the BUDS back there until you start going over mountains. It does great but you know it's slowing you down. Last summer my 1 ton was in the shop when we had a trip planned. My nephew offered his half ton. It was really nice of him but the ride was not fun. The trip was only 3 hours one way and the power and stability was not there. I would be comfortable with a 3/4 ton but the difference was too great with the 1/2 ton.
I really cannot answer the "R" values but we camp in all kinds of weather and have never had a problem staying warm with snow coming down and cool when the temps were in the 90's.
We love our BUDS and are very impressed with the quality. We bought ours in April of 2010.
It's good to be ask the questions before taking the plunge.

Good luck and enjoy RVing

CliffP · May 17, 2012

miboje said:
We have put money down on a 32BUDS Caliber, but it's not a closed deal just yet. I would have preferred a Prime Time LaCrosse, but my fiance is convinced that the North Trail is better built. I'm counting on him to make the right decision.

From what I can tell after perusing info on both manufacturer's Web sites, the construction methods appear very similar. The major difference I can see is the PT LaCrosse has better insulation values. Prime Time reports R-14 fiberglass in the roof, while the R-11 walls and R-14 floor are foam block insulation. Since I will be using the coach as a home office while the kids are off school during the summer, the insulation values are important to me. I don't think the Heartland Caliber delivers in that respect, but I do not know the difference between the characteristics of fiberglass and foam insulation. The salesman says that NT is a better coach and that insulation values do not matter, but he couldn't explain why. R-values certainly do matter in my house. I am aware that the North Trail has been tested to 0 degrees and the underbelly is enclosed and insulated. I wouldn't have that any other way.

Why doesn't Heartland add the radiant foil insulation in their coaches?

I asked my fiance to convince me on why he feels the NT is built better. He said he thought it felt more solid and was quieter inside. I'll give him the fact that it was quieter inside, but he doesn't know how it is built better. I can see why the floors would be more solid with the foam rather than wood and fiberglass and no holes in the floors for heat vents.

We have a 2001 4x4 GMC Sierra 1500 with the factory tow package, 4.8L, 3:73 gear ratio. The dealer said we can tow 8,000 lbs. Isn't this cutting it too close?

So, I'm looking for responses regarding my concerns. I know it is just a camper, but there appears to be better insulated coaches out there. It only makes sense to me to do what is possible to extend the camping season, especially since we live in PA, with a well insulated coach and not use up excessive energy resources to do that. This represents a huge expenditure for us, which I do not take lightly at all, so I really want to feel comfortable and confident going into this. I really wish there was a way for us to use it for a week, tow it on the steep hills, etc. I'd hate to find out that we can only go to certain places because it's too heavy for our TV.

We have a the same camper and love it. We shopped for four months and looked at hundreds of campers on lots, online and at campgrounds both while camping and on drive-thrus. North Trail was the the best quality camper for the money in our opinion. Wish I could say we haven't had any problems with it but at least I can say that Heartland has stood behind everything. They have also set up an audit bay to help fix potential manufacturing problems. Link to Audit Bay at Heartland thread

I don't feel qualified to answer the insulation question but our walls are thicker than any other camper we looked at and the roofs construction is superior.

Here is a page copied from a 2001 Silverado manual.

View attachment 2001 GM towing specs.htm

According the manual max trailer weight GM recommends is 7300#s. Our Caliber edition weighs 7737#s dry.

Best of luck with your shopping and have fun!

PeternLiane · May 17, 2012

CliffP said:
We have a the same camper and love it. We shopped for four months and looked at hundreds of campers on lots, online and at campgrounds both while camping and on drive-thrus. North Trail was the the best quality camper for the money in our opinion. Wish I could say we haven't had any problems with it but at least I can say that Heartland has stood behind everything. They have also set up an audit bay to help fix potential manufacturing problems. Link to Audit Bay at Heartland thread

I don't feel qualified to answer the insulation question but our walls are thicker than any other camper we looked at and the roofs construction is superior.

Here is a page copied from a 2001 Silverado manual.

View attachment 19320

According the manual max trailer weight GM recommends is 7300#s. Our Caliber edition weighs 7737#s dry.

Best of luck with your shopping and have fun!

I have to agree the configuration that the truck is in will only do between 7100 and 7300. I like the Trailer life website for the estimated weights. Here is a link to multiple year manuals. http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

miboje · May 17, 2012

So it seems our first priority isn't choosing a camper, it is to get a heavier TV. I want to thank everyone again for pointing this out as we are admittedly inexperienced. The salesman called me today to try to talk us into going with the 32 BUDS and again stated that our TV was rated for 8,000 lbs., but I really don't think it's wise to push it. We know absolutely that we will be going into the mountains. So, we're off to find an affordable *cough* Cummins, Duramax or the legendary Powerstroke 7.1, then we'll be back.

miboje · May 18, 2012

miboje said:
So it seems our first priority isn't choosing a camper, it is to get a heavier TV. I want to thank everyone again for pointing this out as we are admittedly inexperienced. The salesman called me today to try to talk us into going with the 32 BUDS and again stated that our TV was rated for 8,000 lbs., but I really don't think it's wise to push it. We know absolutely that we will be going into the mountains. So, we're off to find an affordable *cough* Cummins, Duramax or the legendary Powerstroke 7.1, then we'll be back.

Oops....Powerstroke 7.3.

And if anyone would like to chime in about which diesel they think is better and why, my fiance would be grateful. :>) He's looking for guidance.

codycarver · May 18, 2012

miboje said:
Oops....Powerstroke 7.3.

And if anyone would like to chime in about which diesel they think is better and why, my fiance would be grateful. :>) He's looking for guidance.

What price range are you looking in?

miboje · May 18, 2012

codycarver said:
What price range are you looking in?

Cheap

.
Really, though, we'd like to stay well under $15,000 and are considering the 1998 to 2002 year range. It seems that he's got his heart set on a Powerstroke 7.3 after talking about it today to a few friends who own Powerstrokes. Apparently Ford did make a great Powerstroke from '99 to 2002, but the '99 and '00 7.3Ls were exceptional.

APT · May 18, 2012

The 7.3L and 5.9L Cummins are great, especially with their respective manual transmission. A Duramax/Allison combo would provide more power for that era.

codycarver · May 18, 2012

miboje said:
Cheap .
Really, though, we'd like to stay well under $15,000 and are considering the 1998 to 2002 year range. It seems that he's got his heart set on a Powerstroke 7.3 after talking about it today to a few friends who own Powerstrokes. Apparently Ford did make a great Powerstroke from '99 to 2002, but the '99 and '00 7.3Ls were exceptional.

I think your are right in the ball park for what you want to spend and the vintage trucks you are looking for. If you are looking at the Dodge... 2000-2001 were the best years according to my mechanic but he is a Cummin's guy with over 300,000 miles on his 2000 and I have a buddy with a 99 Ford F350 PS pushing 200,000 miles and he loves it. To bad you weren't closer, I have the Dodge in my sig for sale. Good luck with your search.

Prospective owner questions for the 32BUDS, Caliber Edition

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