Power Problem: 3670 Kitchen slide

While defrosting the fridge I was using the outlet adjacent to the range hood to power a hair dryer on low speed/heat. I lost power to the hair dryer and thought I had tripped a breaker. I did not trip any breaker and the GFCI was not tripped, as well. Upon further investigation I discovered I also lost power to the fridge. Some of the posts on the forum indicate the fridge is part of the GFCI circuit in the bathroom, but all circuits labeled GFCI are working. The factory has indicated the fridge is on it's own circuit, but there is not a breaker labeled specifically for the fridge. Also, the single outlet fridge power outlet has two wires coming in/out, which means the circuit is most likely sourcing the outlet next to the range hood, as well; the range hood has a single romex wire. I checked voltage at the connection box just prior to the slide wiring (located on the frame of the rig) and found two romex lines feeding the kitchen slide, one is for the micro wave, the other should source the fridge and, presumably, the outlet next to the range hood. The microwave romex had power within the connection box, the second romex had no power. It sounds like I have a loose connection somewhere but I don't know the source of the wiring prior to the frame-mounted junction box. I looked in the "glob" of wiring in the basement--which gave me a headache--but I saw no clues.

I have flipped all breakers, except mains, and all were solid to the on position. I am still trying to work with the factory, but wanted to know if there is any help in cyber-land. Where is the source of the kitchen/fridge wiring? Am I missing some hidden breaker or GFCI reset?

Hi Roadjunkie,

I don't know for sure, but I'd have to guess the next stop is the back of the circuit breaker panel. With shore power disconnected, you should be able to remove the mounting screws and gently pull the panel into the living area so you can see if a wire's loose on the backside.

Btw, the Dometic RM1350 manual has this warning about defrosting.

Do not use:
• A knife or an ice pick, or other sharp tools to remove frost from the freezer shelves.
• A hot air blower. Permanent damage could result from warping the metal or plastic parts.

Roadjunkie is right in that there is no breaker labelled for the fridge. The micro is on a separate breaker, though. It also is NOT on the GFCI circuit. I just tested both the GFCI breaker in the panel, as well as the outlet in the bathroom. Also shut off the micro breaker. Nothing shut off the AC to the refer. If you find what feeds the refer outlet, please post it.

JohnDar said:

It also is NOT on the GFCI circuit. I just tested both the GFCI breaker in the panel, as well as the outlet in the bathroom. Also shut off the micro breaker. Nothing shut off the AC to the refer..

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John, are you in a position that you could shut off breakers to determine which one is connected to the fridge? Or, if you have a tracer tool that allows plugging in a transmitter and detecting which breaker is attached. I thought about wires becoming loose behind the breaker panel, but all other outlets are hot. I suppose they could have ganged wires on one breaker that would allow what I'm seeing. It would be highly coincidental that the wires would be loose and cut power just as I was using the outlet.

Thanks for the warning on defrosting the fridge. If a person became impatient and applied a lot of heat, I can see where that would be an issue.

I have flipped all breakers, except mains,

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Roadjunkie,

I'd flip the mains also to make sure. Also, don't overlook the possibility of a pedestal problem. Also, have you tested enough AC devices to know for sure that you have power on both of the 50Amp legs coming into the trailer? I agree with you that it's too coincidental that some exotic failure would occur while using the hairdryer. More likely that a breaker somewhere is tripped.

RoadJunkie said:

John, are you in a position that you could shut off breakers to determine which one is connected to the fridge? Or, if you have a tracer tool that allows plugging in a transmitter and detecting which breaker is attached. I thought about wires becoming loose behind the breaker panel, but all other outlets are hot. I suppose they could have ganged wires on one breaker that would allow what I'm seeing. It would be highly coincidental that the wires would be loose and cut power just as I was using the outlet.

Thanks for the warning on defrosting the fridge. If a person became impatient and applied a lot of heat, I can see where that would be an issue.

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Unfortunately, I don't have a signal generator to test the circuits. But the circuits I mentioned earlier were tried by actually shutting off the breakers. And just now I tried the water heater, slide-out and ceiling fan (never know) breakers. Still did not affect the fridge. Only ones left are the bedroom, A/C, and the converter, as well as the main breaker. So, it's anybody's guess how or what they wired it into.

For reference, this is my breaker panel (labels enhanced for visibility). Just realized that the one that says furnace is actually a breaker for the front A/C, which I don't have.

Yup, lots of experience, and pedestal is fine, I've checked power and been running both air conditioners. I don't mind grasping at straws at this point, however. This is not a show-stopping issue at this point, the fridge is running on propane and I think it may be the first time I've used the outlet next to the range hood. I may have to completely remove power from the rig, inject power into the fridge outlet, and then use a proximity AC detector to trace where the wires are routed. What a PITA.

I have a few more breakers than you, John; fireplace, washer/dryer on separate breakers, central Vac, and (surprisingly) our physical breaker locations don't match, although mine is a '10. It doesn't seem like there is a standard breaker layout, and perhaps the wiring does not meet a standard, as well. I haven't figured out what "Main AC" means. I guess everything else not specifically identified.

On my BC 3500RL, the fridge is on the slide circuit. Its written in the panel as slides.

Found out the hard way when I created a circuit to power the slides AC power from my inverter and now I have to switch the fridge to propane.

JohnDar said:

Unfortunately, I don't have a signal generator to test the circuits. But the circuits I mentioned earlier were tried by actually shutting off the breakers. And just now I tried the water heater, slide-out and ceiling fan (never know) breakers. Still did not affect the fridge. Only ones left are the bedroom, A/C, and the converter, as well as the main breaker. So, it's anybody's guess how or what they wired it into.

For reference, this is my breaker panel (labels enhanced for visibility). Just realized that the one that says furnace is actually a breaker for the front A/C, which I don't have.

Click to expand...

So John, which breaker will cut off the refer when you flip it?

rick_debbie_gallant said:

So John, which breaker will cut off the refer when you flip it?

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So far, none of the ones I've tried. The one marked "slide-out" only kills the outlets in the living room slide and the back wall. I haven't tried the one for the bedroom, washer, or converter, yet. I also don't know to which breaker my central vac is connected to, although it's plugged into an outlet on the basement wall. Maybe the double 50A breaker is the one...

I think the "main AC" breaker is for the one in the rear of the coach.

Weather is not conducive to boating the remaining days we're here, so maybe I'll put on my bush hat, strap on a sidearm and enter the Basement O' Doom to search for the Secret of the Lost Electrons. K-bar between my teeth, too, in case I run into the Creature from the Black Tank Lagoon.

The slide circuit? That's interesting. I guess the AC for that area is technically in a slide. I will post when I finally figure out the answer. Thanks for all your help and ideas.

RoadJunkie said:

The slide circuit? That's interesting. I guess the AC for that area is technically in a slide. I will post when I finally figure out the answer. Thanks for all your help and ideas.

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No, the AC is on the roof and on a separate breaker from the slide. Sorry for the confusion. Now that the rains have stopped, I might go exploring.

You are aware that all of the indicator lights, internal lights, etc on the refrigerator are run by 12 volts DC, I hope. The only thing 110 volts AC does in the refrigerator is run the heating element that substitutes for the gas flame to provide the energy for the ammonia refrigerator. This heating element is switched on and off by the 12 volt DC powered refrigerator logic board.

wdk450 said:

You are aware that all of the indicator lights, internal lights, etc on the refrigerator are run by 12 volts DC, I hope. The only thing 110 volts AC does in the refrigerator is run the heating element that substitutes for the gas flame to provide the energy for the ammonia refrigerator. This heating element is switched on and off by the 12 volt DC powered refrigerator logic board.

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Yes, I understand how the panel lights are powered. But, it seems to me that if the refer looses the 120V supply, the AC source light on the display should go out and the GAS light should come on automatically, since I have it set on AUTO. Turning off ALL of my breakers, except the 50A main, did not extinguish the AC mode indicator on it.

Last year at the Canton Rally, Jay Coffman had a problem that sounds similar to the problem described here, i.e., no power to the refrigerator. We determined that the power for the refer was fed from the GFI in the bathroom. We were unable to solve the problem because he had a ground fault somewhere else in the RV that was receiving power from this same GFI source. Upon our inspection of the bathroom GFI, we found several wires that are not properly connected due to wire insulation upon initial installation. The GFI plug doesn't have screw down lugs but only the wire is forced into a slit in the brass connector. Therefore, it might be worth the time to inspect the wiring connects at this location.

JohnDar said:

Turning off ALL of my breakers, except the 50A main, did not extinguish the AC mode indicator on it.

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Now that's interesting. I was running on propane (manual) prior to this problem so I didn't notice any changes in the fridge changeover. The fact that there doesn't seem to be a breaker on this line leads me back to thinking this circuit must be fed by the GFCI...and to Jim's post. I will take apart the GFCI outlet this afternoon or tomorrow (DW's birthday today so I better not spend it troubleshooting). Jim, thanks for your help and I'm glad one of us still has a memory!

RoadJunkie said:

Now that's interesting. I was running on propane (manual) prior to this problem so I didn't notice any changes in the fridge changeover. The fact that there doesn't seem to be a breaker on this line leads me back to thinking this circuit must be fed by the GFCI...and to Jim's post. I will take apart the GFCI outlet this afternoon or tomorrow (DW's birthday today so I better not spend it troubleshooting). Jim, thanks for your help and I'm glad one of us still has a memory!

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If the "AC Mode" indicator light on the refrigerator is "ON", then the refrigerator is indicating it IS getting 120 volt AC power; so unless the refrigerator control PC board is messing up, the refrigerator IS getting AC power, and the GFI issue is moot. I guess the absolute test (other than measuring if AC voltage is present at the refrigerator board heater connections) would be to completely disconnect power from the trailer and see what the refrigerator mode light does.

To Bill's point as to whether or not the refer is seeing 120 V AC power, have you unplugged the refer power cord(s) behind the refer at the lower louvered access door and checked to see of you have power at the AC receptacle? As Bill noted, you may have a bad control board. There are two fuses on the control board that need to be checked if you determine that you have 120 volts to the control board.

120 Vac is absent at the fridge outlet and the outlet next to the range hood.