F350 vs F450

scottyb

scottyb

Well-known member
I drove a F350 and a F450 yesterday. The difference in the ride was almost unnoticeable. I expected the F450 to be much firmer, like The F550 I recently purchased for the company. I drove both of them on some rough county roads. The F450 definitely has more gear ratio. It was turning 2250 at 65 mph. I think it would be perfect for a 18K rig, if pulling through the mountains a lot. On the other hand, since it will be an every day drive for me, it would probably suffer a little fuel economy when empty, 95% of the time.

Just curious how everyone likes the exhaust braking on their Fords and how effective they are for you.
 
T

TedS

Well-known member
I have mentioned to Ford Service here that I can not tell whether or not the exhaust brake is working in my truck. They say everything is fine. There seems to be no detecable retardation when I tap the brake in tow/haul mode per owner's manual. The transmission will downshift and that is noticable. But I can't tell if the exhaust brake works.
 
scottyb

scottyb

Well-known member
Ted is that both loaded and unloaded? I have driven a 2012 Chevy and it is apparent, even unloaded, but I have read on Ford diesel forums that it only becomes apparent when loaded and the RPM's get up to 3000 on the Fords. The higher the RPM's the more braking power. Unfortunately, we don't get to try them out hauling our rigs before we buy, so we have to depend on other owner's experiences.
 
codycarver

codycarver

Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
We are towing with our F450 right now. We average 11 MPG towing. Most of our towing is in the mountains.
It took a little bit for me to get used to the engine braking. But now that I am used to it, I prefer the brakes
in the Ford over the braking in my Dodge.
 
T

TedS

Well-known member
scottyb,
Both loaded and unloaded. Coming down a hill the transmission has downshifted, the rpm is up and can not tell if the exhaust brake is effective. When the rpm is 3000 or more the lower gear and engine become an effective brake. Still don't know about the exhaust brake. I would think even at lower rpm and just tap the brake to initiate the exhaust brake I should feel it slowing. It does not. Truck or truck plus trailer just keep increasing speed downhill unitl I brake enough to get the transmission to downshift 2 or more gears. To me it is still a mystery.
 
MTPockets

MTPockets

Well-known member
I've used mine quite a bit and it does assist on the steep down grade at lower speeds and revs around the 3000 - 3500 rpm range. I didn't think there was an exhaust brake, just the downshift in tow mode.
 
beasleyrl

beasleyrl

Well-known member
I have an older F450 (2008) and I don't believe it has the exhaust brake. We upgraded to this truck from a Chevy 3500 Duramax/Allison. There is no comparison between this trucks ability to pull and stop with my Cyclone attached, our rig loaded weighs in over 18k with the golf cart on board. I really notice the difference on hills and in the mountains. My only complaint would be having to use the truck on a daily basis (I don't!). I will add that i did notice a much worse ride going to the F450 after the Chevy. the 450 rides much differently (better) loaded.

My Chevy got about 20mpg on the road and about 7 towing. My F450 gets at best 12 on the road when not towing and 6 towing. Bottom line - great truck but unusable on a daily basis.

Another thing to consider. When I went to get insurance on the truck, Progressive claimed it was a commercial truck and required commercial insurance. Ended up having to get the coverage through my RV policy as a "motor home" instead of the auto policy.
 
L

lwmcguir

Well-known member
MTPockets said:
I've used mine quite a bit and it does assist on the steep down grade at lower speeds and revs around the 3000 - 3500 rpm range. I didn't think there was an exhaust brake, just the downshift in tow mode.
Click to expand...
We have good luck coming down out of the mountains using the manual mode, tow haul engaged, and tapping brakes if we start to increase RPM's more than I like. Almost always I can regulate the speed by lowering and increasing the gear selected.
 
Last edited:
scottyb

scottyb

Well-known member
Another thing to consider. When I went to get insurance on the truck, Progressive claimed it was a commercial truck and required commercial insurance. Ended up having to get the coverage through my RV policy as a "motor home" instead of the auto policy.
Click to expand...

BINGO. I called my insurance agent yesterday, that I have been with for 31 years. The F450 would cost me an additional $100/mo in insuurance over an F350 or a C3500. My insurance person says they are wrapping them in with the loss claims of all the commercial F450's running around the country. That's a deal breaker for me.
 
porthole

porthole

Retired
2011+ F series super duties DO NOT HAVE an exhaust brake.
What they do have is some engine braking that is controlled by the power train computers controlling engine speed and transmission shift points.

The engine braking scheme works ok on the highway, sometimes being a bit aggressive on the downshifts for my tastes.
Where it really lacks effectiveness is in the hilly, 2 lane back roads with the 100-300 foot constant elevation changes. Typical of roads with 35 mph speed limits.

This truck will not slow down at all on these hills and frequently gaining excessive speed.

Common for us is some areas NE PA. At times I have just put the truck in 4WD LOW and just kept the speed under 35 until back out on the open roads.

A true exhaust brake would be a welcome option on this truck. Even better would be a Telma retarder.

As to the 350-450 differences, there are 3 key points, increased capacity (suspension), larger brakes (almost 2") and the wider front axle.
The first two are obvious, the third, the wider axle, really shines with close quarter maneuvering. The 450 will almost turn inside of a 350.
 
porthole

porthole

Retired
I know the video and it is not an exhaust brake no matter what "dirty job Mike" calls it.
I don't understand why ford would market it like that, too many folks out there on the net who know.
Dumping exhaust back into the intake is nothing more the EGR, exhaust gas recirculation.
An exhaust brake works in the exhaust and in its basic form, closes off the exhaust.

No air out = forced engine slow down.

That slowing down a 20K load only works at higher speeds and longer hills. It does just about nothing on the hills I mention above.

BTW, a Jake or Jacobs brake is not an exhaust brake, it is a "compression release" system.
 
scottyb

scottyb

Well-known member
You are correct, a Jake brake is different. It creates a vacuum which inhibits the down stroke. However, they are all generically considered exhaust brakes and the Jake brake is the cuplprit responsible for the signs that state "No Exhaust Braking" in many communities. They have also been known to start avalanches. Not sure how the Chevy and Dodge achieve their "Exhaust Braking", but they both worked considerably better in side-by-side tests, than the Ford.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHYG65IoW14
 
codycarver

codycarver

Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
I travel a lot in the mountains (the Rocky's and the Bighorns) grades of up to 8% and MPH of 35-45 for over a mile are common. I tap the brakes or use the manual down sift to control my speed. 5th gear not so good, 4th better, 3rd WOW. I've come off the Bighorns with minimal "tapping" and braking on switchbacks. I'm completely comfortable on grades with this truck.

After reading the post concerning the cost of insurance I looked mine up

State Farm 250,000/500,00 $250.00 deductible $794.12 annually
 
porthole

porthole

Retired
Cody, the grades that I find a challenge are the 100-400 foot elevation changes, up and down in a short stretch. Typically under a mile between hill tops. This truck just cannot slow down on theses grades at the lower speeds. I am not referring to the grades found on interstates and highways, just the back road 2 lanes.

Part of the operation of the programming is to be going fast enough to have high enough RPM's to limit speed. And you just don't get that when your max speed may only be 30-45 or so. I'm sure trailer weight playsnanig part in the operation too.

Another thread jack :cool:

In New Jersey, with Allstate, all trucks over 10K are being charged a commercial rate. My first years insurance more then doubled to almost $1700.
 
V

Vtxkid

Well-known member
In New Jersey, with Allstate, all trucks over 10K are being charged a commercial rate. My first years insurance more then doubled to almost $1700.[/QUOTE]

And that was for his F350! Gezzz! :(

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
scottyb

scottyb

Well-known member
State Farm 250,000/500,00 $250.00 deductible $794.12 annually
Click to expand...

That's pretty incredible. Farmers quoted 2200 for the F450 and 1044 for the F350, with 1000 deductible, and both of us having perfect driving records. That quote was with a 2nd vehicle discount, also. I know that insurance varies greatly from region to region, but that's insane. I will give them a call and see if maybe they take a different view of these trucks than Farmers, but i have found these two to be neck and neck over the years. I really want a F450 but not at such a premium.
 
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