Tow Vehicles RW 305

tljack

Well-known member
I was reading a closed forum about towning the 30C and folks feeling a 3/4 T is not adequate. I find this interesting, I do not claim to be an expert by any means as my 2013 RW 305 is my 1st 5th wheel. So far I have pulled it a bit over 7,500 miles through 13 states. We are only about 700 lb lighter than the 30C according to factory spec. We have been up and down grades as steep as 8%.

Most of our towing has been with our Harely Davidson Road Glide Ultra Classic in the rear. It weighs about 850 lbs with not fuel or fluids. I usually have the fuel tanks mostly filled, holding tanks empty and the water tank about 1/4 - 1/3. Occassionally it has been full but I try to avoid that. =)

I am towing with a 2012 Silverado HD 3/4, Duramax diesel and Allison trans. When I lower the trailer onto the pickup, it hardly sets down, remains level and has absolutely no sway at all.

So far we are loving our combination. Planning to go to the Oregon coast this month for a couple weeks and then at the end of March will be off to Texas again. Later planning to go to New Mexico on another trip and then to my home country of Montana.

Terry
 

Speedy

Well-known member
Load everything up and head to the scales and see what your real numbers are. It's the only way to know if you are safely towing or not.
 

For20hunter

Pacific Region Directors-Retired
I was reading a closed forum about towning the 30C and folks feeling a 3/4 T is not adequate. I find this interesting, I do not claim to be an expert by any means as my 2013 RW 305 is my 1st 5th wheel. So far I have pulled it a bit over 7,500 miles through 13 states. We are only about 700 lb lighter than the 30C according to factory spec. We have been up and down grades as steep as 8%.

Most of our towing has been with our Harely Davidson Road Glide Ultra Classic in the rear. It weighs about 850 lbs with not fuel or fluids. I usually have the fuel tanks mostly filled, holding tanks empty and the water tank about 1/4 - 1/3. Occassionally it has been full but I try to avoid that. =)

I am towing with a 2012 Silverado HD 3/4, Duramax diesel and Allison trans. When I lower the trailer onto the pickup, it hardly sets down, remains level and has absolutely no sway at all.

So far we are loving our combination. Planning to go to the Oregon coast this month for a couple weeks and then at the end of March will be off to Texas again. Later planning to go to New Mexico on another trip and then to my home country of Montana.

Terry

Terry,

You might be fine with your 3/4 ton, but taking a trip to the scales is your only way to know for sure. However, most trailers like yours would exceed the tow limits of a 3/4 ton.

I think that the biggest reason most people are making the comments about the 1 ton vs. the 3/4 is the vehicles tow ratings. Yes they might have the same engine and transmission, but the axles, brakes and suspensions are vastly different. The overall towing capacity of a 3/4 ton is far lower than a 1 ton. Then the difference between a 1 ton SRW and a DRW is a huge gain as well. Below are some 2012 Ford Specs with the same powertrain configurations just for comparison. The GM and Dodge products are similar.

F-250 CC SRW 4WD 6.7L V-8 TD 15,200
F-350 CC SRW 4WD 6.7L V-8 TD 15,700
F-350 CC DRW 4WD 6.7L V-8 TD 21,500




 

tljack

Well-known member
I have been on State of Oregon truck scales and we are with in our limits with quite a bit to spare according to the weighmaster. He went by the tags on the unit.
Terry
 

ILH

Well-known member
I have been on State of Oregon truck scales and we are with in our limits with quite a bit to spare according to the weighmaster. He went by the tags on the unit.
Terry

I'm really happy to read this - as I have essentially the same setup. My calculations had me in the black too.
 

DW_Gray

Well-known member
Terry, in order to obtain a good weight safety report, 2 weighs are required. The only place on the internet that provides a 13 point report is at Fifth Wheel St.
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Terry,

You might be fine with your 3/4 ton, but taking a trip to the scales is your only way to know for sure. However, most trailers like yours would exceed the tow limits of a 3/4 ton.

I think that the biggest reason most people are making the comments about the 1 ton vs. the 3/4 is the vehicles tow ratings. Yes they might have the same engine and transmission, but the axles, brakes and suspensions are vastly different. The overall towing capacity of a 3/4 ton is far lower than a 1 ton. Then the difference between a 1 ton SRW and a DRW is a huge gain as well. Below are some 2012 Ford Specs with the same powertrain configurations just for comparison. The GM and Dodge products are similar.



There is really not much difference between 3/4 ton and 1ton pickups. When comparing SRW against SRW you will find that they are almost identical within each brand. Usually the only upgraded part is front(torsion bar for GM) and rear springs. DRW pickups may have a different rear axle. That would be to accommodate the duals. Not always the case though.

Unless you compare a regular 3/4 ton pickup to a 1ton DRW Cab and Chassis model then there can be a huge difference. But there is also a huge difference between a regular 1ton DRW pick compared to a 1 ton DRW cab and chassis model.


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Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Have you read your owners manual? It tells you what the GVWR is for your truck. D/A, SRW, DRW, single cab..C/C, short or long W/B...rearend gear ratio...ect..etc. Your 2012 2500 should well within your specs as I think it has a 17K 5er rating. Heck, my 07 2500 C/C LB is rated at 15200K for a 5er and a GVWR of 22K.
 

Speedy

Well-known member
Depending on your state one thing that people don't realize is the difference between 3/4 and 1 ton in the way they are registered. In Minnesota it is by weight if over 8800 GVW. So if you choose a 3/4 ton and put 8800 or 9000 lb plates on it and your trailer pin weight causes your TV to exceed that weight then you can get fined. The fine is quite high ($2000) from a previous trailer I had and it was just a regular state patrol officer that tagged me in a rest area. No scales needed when they look at the plates and see you are over limits.

Run the numbers and get the right size TV for the trailer. Used trucks are in demand so trading up should not be a problem if needed.
 

DW_Gray

Well-known member
From my research this past year, one of the common mistakes with SRW trucks is overloading the axle (SYSTEM). The rear axle system on some of these trucks can not handle the trailer's GHWR. The GHWR for the RW 305 is 3,500 pounds. Read Before You Buy That RV, Truck or Other Tow Vehicle to learn more about it.

Your truck's 5th wheel maximum towing capacity is 16,700 pounds (without added equipment and passengers), but that doesn't prove the rear axle system is capable.
 
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mattpopp

Trouble Maker
From my research this past year, one of the common mistakes with SRW trucks is overloading the axle. The rear axle on some of these trucks can not handle the trailer's GHWR. The GHWR for the RW 305 is 3,500 pounds. Read Before You Buy That RV, Truck or Other Tow Vehicle to learn more about it.

Dodge 11.5 and GM 11.5 axles is the same axle for the most part. The 3/4 ton and 1 ton model for each make use the same axle. This is no difference. Shouldn't worry if you are driving a 2007 or newer pickup. The ring and pinion is interchangeable between all of them.

Ford uses their version of the 10.5" 37 spline in 2011 and newer in 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups SRW. I believe but I need to verify this, but I believe the DRW pickup uses a Dana 80 or it uses the 10.5" 37 spline. Prior to 2011 it was a 31 spline axle.

F450 uses a Dana S110


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DW_Gray

Well-known member
Dodge 11.5 and GM 11.5 axles is the same axle for the most part. The 3/4 ton and 1 ton model for each make use the same axle. This is no difference. Shouldn't worry if you are driving a 2007 or newer pickup. The ring and pinion is interchangeable between all of them.

Ford uses their version of the 10.5" 37 spline in 2011 and newer in 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups SRW. I believe but I need to verify this, but I believe the DRW pickup uses a Dana 80 or it uses the 10.5" 37 spline. Prior to 2011 it was a 31 spline axle.

F450 uses a Dana S110


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I'm sorry, I sometimes fail to recognize that some don't understand that when I refer to axle, that includes the whole axle system. I revised my statement. Your comment is correct, but the rating is solely based on the lowest system component capacity.

The typical limiting factor between the 3/4T and 1T are the springs and or gear ratio.
 
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mattpopp

Trouble Maker
I'm sorry, I sometimes fail to recognize that some don't understand that when I refer to axle, that includes the whole axle system. I revised my statement. Your comment is correct, but the rating is solely based on the lowest system component capacity.

The typical limiting factor between the 3/4T and 1T are the springs and or gear ratio.

This is true, as the axle them self is rated for much more the the actual GAWR that the manufacture of the pickup sets inplace.

I believe I have the axle wrong for the F450. 2008-2010 is the Dana S110. 2011 and up I think it is the Dana 80 now. If that is right the rear suspension on the F450 is the same found on a F350. As I have read the F450 2011 up is basically a F350 with the wide tract front axle, slightly bigger brakes, and 4.30 gearing. 2011&Up Pickup F450 is nothing like the CC F450 in weight handling capabilities.


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scottyb

Well-known member
This is true, as the axle them self is rated for much more the the actual GAWR that the manufacture of the pickup sets inplace.

I believe I have the axle wrong for the F450. 2008-2010 is the Dana S110. 2011 and up I think it is the Dana 80 now. If that is right the rear suspension on the F450 is the same found on a F350. As I have read the F450 2011 up is basically a F350 with the wide tract front axle, slightly bigger brakes, and 4.30 gearing. 2011&Up Pickup F450 is nothing like the CC F450 in weight handling capabilities.


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Interesting. You are right, the F450 Chassis/Cab has a 15K-16.5K GVWR where the F450 pickup has a 14K, which matches the F350 pickup. The other interesting thing is that a F350 Chassis/Cab only has a 15600 FW tow rating where the pickup has a 21500.
 

DW_Gray

Well-known member
Interesting. You are right, the F450 Chassis/Cab has a 15K-16.5K GVWR where the F450 pickup has a 14K, which matches the F350 pickup. The other interesting thing is that a F350 Chassis/Cab only has a 15600 FW tow rating where the pickup has a 21500.

Okay, I'm going to stand on my Soap Box for a moment.

Many of the automotive companies have stopped publishing IMPORTANT towing related data on their websites and in their brochures. Ford is particularly guilty. Considering this, I can't say with surety with what I'm about to say.

The Chassis/Cab tow ratings are intentionally rated low because it is unknown what will be installed on the chassis. It could be very heavy tow truck equipment that reduces the tow capacity. This is because when you look at the GCWR, you have to subtract the total ready configuration weight of the truck from the GCWR. On the other hand, if a lightweight flatbed is installed on the chassis, the tow rating increases. But I'm unable to verify what I think because of the lack of IMPORTANT towing related data available online.

Here is an excerpt from my article, for those who haven’t yet read it.

Maximum towing capacity, don't trust it
It certainly appears to me that automotive companies are duping buyers with their so called “improved” vehicle brochures, web sites and now, towing videos. They have done nothing more than create situations that could lead the buyer into thinking they can tow any trailer that weighs less than the listed maximum towing capacity. Many are no longer publishing the various certification ratings that are vitally important in choosing the right tow vehicle.


So, there, I’ve said it.

Fortunately, a good friend will be meeting soon with one of the major auto company heads and will be presenting our concerns related to RV towing. I look forward to hearing the response.

(I wonder if this should be moved to new thread.) Moderator?
 
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porthole

Retired
I believe I have the axle wrong for the F450. 2008-2010 is the Dana S110. 2011 and up I think it is the Dana 80 now. If that is right the rear suspension on the F450 is the same found on a F350. As I have read the F450 2011 up is basically a F350 with the wide tract front axle, slightly bigger brakes, and 4.30 gearing.

Correct, same axle starting with the new truck in 2011
 

scottyb

Well-known member
The Chassis/Cab tow ratings are intentionally rated low because it is unknown what will be installed on the chassis. It could be very heavy tow truck equipment that reduces the tow capacity. This is because when you look at the GCWR, you have to subtract the total ready configuration weight of the truck from the GCWR. (BTW: It appears that Ford no longer lists the GCWR on the website nor in the brochures.) On the other hand, if a lightweight flatbed is installed on the chassis, the tow rating increases. But I'm unable to verify what I think because of the lack of IMPORTANT towing related data available online.

I understand the variations in equipment that might be installed on a CC, but they show GCWR of 23500 for SRW and 24500 for DRW. GCWR should cover everything truck and trailer related and it is 5K less than the GCWR of their comparable pickups. See attached PDF.
 

Attachments

  • 2013 Ford Chassis Cab Towing Specs.pdf
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DW_Gray

Well-known member
I understand the variations in equipment that might be installed on a CC, but they show GCWR of 23500 for SRW and 24500 for DRW. GCWR should cover everything truck and trailer related and it is 5K less than the GCWR of their comparable pickups. See attached PDF.

Oops, there’s the GCWR in the column I overlooked. But still there is no listing for the axle ratings.

Okay, let’s look at this from the chart below.

Year2013 (From PDF)
6.7 V8 Turbo Diesel, 3.73 axle ratio, F350 Regular Chassis Cab
GCWR: 23,500
4X2 SRW: 16,200
4X4 SRW: 15,600
GCWR: 24,500
4X2 DRW: 16,700
4X4 DRW: 16,200

6.7 V8 Turbo Diesel, 3.73 axle ratio, F250/F350 Regular Cab
GCWR 30,500
4X2 SRW: N/A
4X4 SRW: N/A
4X2 DRW: 23,200
4X4 DRW: 22,900

Firstly, the difference between 4X2 and 4X4 is the weight of the truck itself. The 4X4 heavier weight is subtracted from the GCWR.

Secondly, the difference between the SRW and DRW is the spring capacity rating.

Lastly, the difference between the Chassis Cab and the Regular Cab is… Well, it’s beyond me. I’m sure there is a good reason, but what? Does anyone else have an answer?

You know what else is screwed up? There are different weights shown between the PDF file and Ford's online version for some of the same trucks. Go figure.

I’m not the only one that has issues with Ford’s tow ratings. See here.

One thing is for sure, these apparent discrepancies make it difficult for the buyer and the salesperson when it comes to choosing the right tow vehicle. But, if anyone uses the Before You Buy RV app correctly, the risk of buying the wrong tow vehicle or RV is eliminated.
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Interesting. You are right, the F450 Chassis/Cab has a 15K-16.5K GVWR where the F450 pickup has a 14K, which matches the F350 pickup. The other interesting thing is that a F350 Chassis/Cab only has a 15600 FW tow rating where the pickup has a 21500.

That is because the 2011-present F450's are just a F350. Frame, suspension, rear axle, is the same. The only difference is the wide track front axle, slightly bigger brakes, and the 4.30 gearing. Ford is leading people on to actually believe they are buying a true F450 these days. Sadly they aren't. These new F450 are set up to the 07-10 F350 that had the wide track front end.

All of the F450 prior to 2011 was a F450 based off of the Cab and Chassis models. 19.5" wheels, Dana S110 rear axle, heavier suspension, much better brakes/master cylinder, and so on.

Problem is that people complained to Ford about the F450 riding like a work pickup. So they fixed it by turning it into a F350.

So I can't but to laugh at people that buy a 2011-present F450 and think they have a real F450. The only advantage is the steering. My hats not enough for me to justify the added cost of the 450 and doubled insurance cost.

I knew the 2011 had major changes that weren't good for the pickup. I just couldn't remember the axle if it was the same or not. The first time I saw a 11 450 and it had 17" wheels on it, just knew something wasn't right.

I don't understand why the 350 CC numbers are lower. Doesn't make since as the CC have a much stronger suspension and associated parts.


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