Maybe getting a RW 415 but have some questions.

Condry

Member
Hi guys,
I hope someone can help us with our questions. Hubby is AD military and we're looking into getting a RW 415 as a full time live in option to finally give us a permanent home even if it is kinda small ( compared to a house, we're aware it's a huge 5th wheel).

We've heard varying info from both the truck and RV dealerships but they want our money so we're looking at getting info from people who don't.

First off, is it possible to tow the RW 415 with a Dodge Ram 3500 NON duel wheeled vehicle? The truck dealership says we need a duely but the RV dealership says we don't, so we're confused. The truck has specs of course, and the max tow eight is listed as 16400, which wouldn't be enough as the RW 415 is 18k fully loaded, but then again I understand the 5th wheel towing is different than towing using the truck hitch, so is that why the RV dealership is saying a non duel wheel is ok? We would be using airbags if that matters.

Also, any suggestions for full timing vice part timing? We like this RV because it seems to offer us the most options for our 18 month old to have a play area and room ( the toy hauler space) and still leave us decent living space, but I feel like there may be questions we should be asking that we aren't..just because we're unfamiliar with the situation.

And, does anyone know if it'd possible to get anything written from Heartland stating we can have the trailer serviced nationally if something that's covered breaks? Being military we can't rely on going back to where we bought it, as we won't be in the same state, or even the same coast most likely.

Any info would be appreciated!!
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Hi Condry,

First, the truck. You have to be concerned about payload as well as towing capacity.

From a payload point of view: the 415 pin weight of 3225, plus weight of the hitch, tools, bed cover, passengers and pets may very well overload the Dodge SRW. You should check the truck specs closely for the exact truck you're considering. I shopped 2010 Dodge 3500 SRWs and was shocked at the low payload spec. They may have changed that on newer builds, but you need to check. Bottom line, with a trailer GVWR of 18,000 and empty pin weight of 3225, the specs call for the dually.

Overloading the rear axle means you may experience excess wear and tear on the rear axle, wheels, tires and other components. You also may compromise handling, creating safety issues. You should visit the Fifth Wheel Safe Towing website to get more help on this subject.

Getting repairs done after relocating may not be quite as easy as getting things done at your home dealership, but it's not too difficult. Heartland can help by directing you to authorized facilities. The thing to understand is that the manufacturer agreement with dealers doesn't require them to service units they didn't sell. Some dealers may decline to do work - especially warranty work. But Heartland is pretty flexible about authorizing warranty at non-Heartland dealers and at independent service shops. You just have to get the authorization in advance. Many of us have bought from distant dealers and have had no problem getting service locally - or wherever we happen to be. Same for most full-timers who travel. Home is where you are. Most of the components and subsystems are used throughout the industry. So even though the dealer I go to for service majors on Airstreams, they are perfectly capable of fixing Heartlands.

I would think the larger concern is that you'll be living full-time in the trailer. When it needs service, you need to consider the possibility that you may decide it's inconvenient to drop the trailer off for a few weeks for repairs. So you may end up paying for a mobile servicer to come to you. Warranties don't cover the travel expense for the mobile servicer to come to you - that will be on your dime, even though you're in warranty. Other times you may have to negotiate an appointment for repairs to be done while you wait.

All of this can be managed and you should have a great solution to housing issues. Plus you have the opportunity to do special things when you have time off.
 

marvmarcy

Well-known member
I agree that an RW415 should be towed with at least a 1T dually rated for the load. One option is to have the fiver moved by a pro for each PCS. That way you don't have to own a truck. I don't think the RW415 is fulltime rated nor does it have enough insulation for winter in the north. That doesn't mean you can't manage fulltime in WA. I know many people that have lived in CO for years in a basic fiver. I'm retired military and have rved since the 1970s, fulltime since 2000, so I've rved in minus 0 temps in rigs not rated for it - it isn't something you do without preparation and risks, especially with little children.
 

Condry

Member
I agree that an RW415 should be towed with at least a 1T dually rated for the load. One option is to have the fiver moved by a pro for each PCS. That way you don't have to own a truck. I don't think the RW415 is fulltime rated nor does it have enough insulation for winter in the north. That doesn't mean you can't manage fulltime in WA. I know many people that have lived in CO for years in a basic fiver. I'm retired military and have rved since the 1970s, fulltime since 2000, so I've rved in minus 0 temps in rigs not rated for it - it isn't something you do without preparation and risks, especially with little children.


Ok we've been doing some research and it looks like the Chevy 3500s are rated for an acceptable rear RAWR, and GCWR and GVW, even single rear wheel just using airbags to give you a bit of extra weight on the axle, so does anyone have one of those? And what do you mean a RW 415 isn't full time rated? What would be? They did say it has the foam block insulation that doesn't move like the fiberglass stuff they used to use. Having a pro do it isn't an option just on cost and we want to be able to move it if we need to. We don't want the kids to be uncomfortable by any means, but them again we are going to San Diego next, and hopefully VA or the Carolina's thereafter. But it would be best if it does good in the winter.
 

travis_g

Well-known member
I've pulled my RW415 with a F250 & an F350 dually. Dually hands down, you will be so much happier.
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danemayer

Well-known member
It looks like the new GMC trucks are spec'd at 18,000 5th wheel towing and 4308 payload. Depending on how you're loaded, you could be ok.

We tow our Landmark with a 2011 GMC 3500 SRW CC/Longbed/4x4. The Landmark GVWR is 16,200 and we have a lot of extra weight up front (Generator and Washer/Dryer), which will probably be similar for you if you're not carrying heavy toys in the back of the 415. Our actual weight is 15,000 total of which 3,500 is on the hitch.

Our handling is very good with no serious effects from tractor-trailers moving in either direction or from crosswinds. We regularly go through the Colorado mountains without any difficulty going up, and more importantly the engine brake and transmission manage the steep downhill grades for us with minimal and sometimes no braking.

The point about full-time rating has to do with wear and tear and warranty cost to the manufacturer. Most campers are designed for weekend warriors and a few weeks of vacation camping each year. If you live in them full-time, the effects of full-time use will cause things to show wear and tear at a faster rate, leading to more warranty claims than anticipated by the manufacturer. Warranties on many products have caveats to protect the manufacturer when a camper is used full-time. A few years ago, Heartland modified warranties on some Heartland products to remove that caveat and officially support full-time usage.

I'm not sure if the Road Warrior is warranted for full-time use. But many people use Cyclones and Road Warriors on a full-time basis without problems. And I don't think anyone has reported warranty claims being denied on the basis of full-time use, even on less expensive travel trailers. This might be something you'd want to discuss with the RW Brand Manager. You can call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 to discuss. Identify yourself as a prospective customer and ask to speak with the Road Warrior Brand Manager. I'm sure he'll be able to answer this and any other questions you have, and also to give you a good understanding of what you can expect in the way of warranty service around the country.
 

rick_debbie_gallant

Well-known member
Have you checked out the 2013 ram 3500. I have heard they have a tow capacity of 30k or there about.

Btw we are towing a BH3670RL WITH A 2008 ram 3500 DRW with zero problems.



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Condry

Member
It looks like the new GMC trucks are spec'd at 18,000 5th wheel towing and 4308 payload. Depending on how you're loaded, you could be ok.

We tow our Landmark with a 2011 GMC 3500 SRW CC/Longbed/4x4. The Landmark GVWR is 16,200 and we have a lot of extra weight up front (Generator and Washer/Dryer), which will probably be similar for you if you're not carrying heavy toys in the back of the 415. Our actual weight is 15,000 total of which 3,500 is on the hitch.

Our handling is very good with no serious effects from tractor-trailers moving in either direction or from crosswinds. We regularly go through the Colorado mountains without any difficulty going up, and more importantly the engine brake and transmission manage the steep downhill grades for us with minimal and sometimes no braking.

The point about full-time rating has to do with wear and tear and warranty cost to the manufacturer. Most campers are designed for weekend warriors and a few weeks of vacation camping each year. If you live in them full-time, the effects of full-time use will cause things to show wear and tear at a faster rate, leading to more warranty claims than anticipated by the manufacturer. Warranties on many products have caveats to protect the manufacturer when a camper is used full-time. A few years ago, Heartland modified warranties on some Heartland products to remove that caveat and officially support full-time usage.

I'm not sure if the Road Warrior is warranted for full-time use. But many people use Cyclones and Road Warriors on a full-time basis without problems. And I don't think anyone has reported warranty claims being denied on the basis of full-time use, even on less expensive travel trailers. This might be something you'd want to discuss with the RW Brand Manager. You can call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 to discuss. Identify yourself as a prospective customer and ask to speak with the Road Warrior Brand Manager. I'm sure he'll be able to answer this and any other questions you have, and also to give you a good understanding of what you can expect in the way of warranty service around the country.

Thanks for the info, it seems most people are suggesting a dually but are not saying why ( though you guys have a single) it makes me nervous to get a single if the experienced rvers are suggesting dually is better. We were also looking at the 2013 Dodge Ram crew cab 3500 dually, but I'm having difficulty finding all the info on the specs to figure out if it could do it. The 30k advertised is for a regular cab, but adding the crew we'd need for carseats lowers it's towing capabilities because of the extra weight. We would have a generator and washer/dryer in ours, and some lighter kid furniture in the back..but no "toys" of the motorcycle, 4- wheeler, or etc. type. It seems there are several trucks that "could" pull the trailer for a while but not so sure on the "should" I guess it works against us that it's one of the heaviest and longest trailers on the market. Good idea on calling heartland, I'll do that tomorrow. Any other comments keep on coming please!!
 

scottyb

Well-known member
It seems there are several trucks that "could" pull the trailer for a while but not so sure on the "should"

That's the key. My SRW pulled our 4100 well, but when you do the math, you will be severely overloaded. It leaves no margin for error and probably opens you up to some liability issues. If you are purchasing the truck, the cost of a DRW is only slightly higher than the comparable SRW, so it's a no-brainer. The only reason I puleed my 4100 with a SRW is because I already owned it. It became obvious the 1st time I experienced a cross wind, that I needed a DRW.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Most dually's have a few thousand pounds of greater towing capacity and also a few thousand greater payload, so you'd have much more margin when towing a heavy trailer. People who have them also say they're much more stable towing, especially in crosswinds. I considered a dually, but would have had a driveway issue and might have gotten into a fight with our Homeowners Association. I suspect that the longer wheelbase on our SRW helps with the stability, but there could be other things at play.

Here'a link to the GMC page to do spec comparisons. GMC shows the payload on the similar 3500 SRW as 4143, going up to 5154 on the DRW. Towing capacity goes up by almost 6,000.

Here's a link to the Dodge specs. Scroll down to the pages on 3500. I scanned the payload spec and I have to say, the payload specs are not as good by a wide margin. Even on the duallies, while it would probably work for you, at 4430 for Crew Cab, Long Bed, DRW, it's a lot less than the competition.

I don't mean to start a war of competing truck comments. Many people tow with Dodges and swear by them. Just looking at the specs they publish. If someone knows of a different spec sheet that shows Dodge with better numbers, please add a link.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
Dodge has upgraded its weight limits in 2013, but not sure what it is. A 2011-2013 Chevy/GMC 1tn DRW 4WD C/C has a GCVW of 30500# and a GWR for a 5er of 22500# and you gain 500# on each if its a 2WD. To the OP, putting air bags on anything does not raise the legal towing limits. Going from a SRW to a DRW is a matter of a few bucks. Be safe, get a DRW 1tn truck.....I dont care who makes it.
 

cb1313

Member
I have a 385 RW that I carry a 650cc motorcycle and a 850cc ATV. I pull with a 2008 Chevy 1 ton duellie which works fine. If I needed a new thuck and I don't care about brands but only what works for me and the cost. Price 1 ton Dodge, Chevy and then ford with the options you want. I have never owned a Ford truck but after you price the 1 ton trucks see how much a F4500 Ford would cost you. It my be overkill but if you are going to spend $55,000 for a truck to tow with maybe a few extra bucks might be worth looking into. Last week I looked into a F4500 and found that most dealers around here don't have them on their lots mostly because buyers want to make sure they build the truck they want, so think about build time.
Also, just my opinion... but delete the truck bed option and purchase a flat bed deck and then your 5 th wheel hitch. I have top use a small step ladder to reach the 5th wheel hitch because the 1 ton bed is so high.
It may be overkill but I would really look into the F4500.

I am not in anyway connected to Ford or any car dealership. Cb
 

Lou_and_Bette

Well-known member
Hello Condry, I will leave the tow vechicle part of your question alone since you are getting enough advice there, just remember i you are full time you will have to carry more stuff than just weekenders...I am retired military and we have lived in our 405RW full time since Feb 2012 and have loved it. We have never had to leave our rig anywhere for repairs...I lived in ours for 3 days before I left the dealers lot and nothing major since then. 2peasinapod, Mike and Kelly Barnett (happy birthday today, Mike) lived in their Landmark while he was active duty so hopefully they will chime in soon. A couple of weeks ago at the Dallas RV show, I spoke to Mark Alpin, division manager for the toy haulers, and one of his statements was that he (Heartland) was the only toy hauler manuacturer that would not void your warrenty for full time use. I don't think you will be disappointed in deciding to live full time in a RW. Thank you for your service and hopefully we will meet down the road...be safe
Lou
 
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