Inverter Install Tips

Hello,

I have a new BH3010RE 5th, and just picked up a Magnum MS2812 Inverter/Charger because I got what I consider a very good deal on it. Dealer want's a fortune to install, so I'm looking for tips on where and how to install since I'm looking to install it myself.

Couple things I've read / been advised of:

  • Never install the inverter in the same compartment as the batteries. - My question here is if the batteries are in their own relatively air-tight enclosure and is vented to the outside, is this still an issue? The benefit is that it keeps the battery to inverter cable lengths to a minimum. I'm thinking that installing the inverter in the front compartment where the batteries are located, and where a generator would go.
  • Install a sub panel. Why is this required? I'd prefer to just have it power my entire RV without having to run more plugs. I'd be perfectly happy to simply switch to propane for fridge and water tank when we're running on inverter mode.
  • Disconnect the converter/charger permanently. With the converter/charger that came with the BH, if I run off of shore power or inverter power, what powers the 12v systems in the RV? Where does the 12v power come from that powers the 12v panel? Is that just a straight connection to the battery circuit?

If I don't want to use a sub-panel, and stick with the existing main panel, how is shore power managed? Does the existing connection from shore power get moved, or does it stay put at the main panel. I find diagrams which details a sub-panel installation, such as what's provided with the inverter documentation, but unclear how to just stick with the main panel only.

Thanks! and any and all advise appreciated.

PointyWombat
 

Phatkd

Well-known member
Welcome from a fellow Albertan and a fellow 3010RE owner. Where are you located? I have a really good buddy of mine that specializes in RV solar/wind systems and does the installs a a reasonable rate.
 

Garypowell

Well-known member
I am not sure if I understand what you are going to accomplish. An inverter like this would need several battery's to be of any use....maybe to run a 110V TV for the evening. Meantime your on-board battery's (12 Volt system) are being charged by this inverter through the AC buss thus running down those extra battery's down quicker that are powering the inverter. Besides lights the 12 Volt system also keeps the refrigerator, furnace, and a few other things working when on propane.

You mention you want this inverter to "power your whole RV"....I think the first thing you'd need to do, if that is your goal, would be to install a hitch on the back of the 3010 so you could hook up the trailer hauling the battery's.

Maybe I am missing something here....I am not a dry camper but always thought people basically ran off of 12 volts and brought along a small generator if they wanted to do anything with AC and/or to charge up the 12 volt batterys.
 

pegmikef

Well-known member
Maybe I am missing something here....I am not a dry camper but always thought people basically ran off of 12 volts and brought along a small generator if they wanted to do anything with AC and/or to charge up the 12 volt batterys.

I don't know about other dry campers, but when we boondock I take two Trojan 105 batteries, two Honda 2000 generators and a small inverter (1200w). I use one of the generators (two if using the A/C) during peak hours during the day and to charge up the batteries. I keep the trailer powercord plugged in to the generator. Most places we camp have quiet hour restrictions on generator use, so I use the inverter only for emergencies like gotta turn off the generator(s) and the game is just in the third quarter. . . .and I just use an extension cord from the inverter to hook up the TV and Satellite receiver. As a side note, it is more efficient to charge the battery through the converter by hooking your trailer power cord to the generator than it is to charge it from the generator's DC outlet.
 
I'm in Chestermere, just east of Calgary. I saw your post on YouTube on your LED lights. I think you're around Red Deer, no? Yeah, the other option I have is to get it installed privately outside of a dealer, but finding someone locally may be the challenge. It is soft of a specialty thing I think. It would be nice to do it myself, but then there's that whole not knowing what I'm doing thing I'd have to get over first. :)

Welcome from a fellow Albertan and a fellow 3010RE owner. Where are you located? I have a really good buddy of mine that specializes in RV solar/wind systems and does the installs a a reasonable rate.
 
Why does anyone install an inverter? To have 110v. I don't know about your BigHorn which is the same as mine it appears, but the only 12V in my 5th is the lights & fans, and the ancillary for fridge, etc.. There are zero 12v outlets in there. Even the radio is 110v, and yes, the TV as well. I also don't know where you are, but around here, sites with services are hard to come by, so dry camping is very common and is a necessary if you want to get out with short notice. Finding a site on a weekend with power requires sometimes months in advanced booking. Campgrounds with any services here are FULL on the weekends during our short little camping season. Sometimes ya get lucky though.

Anyway, yes. Batteries. I know I need them. I didn't plan on sticking with the single POS 12V that came with it. I currently have 2 X T105's and will be getting 2 more down the road.

The 'power the whole RV' is was something mentioned to me by an RV dealer parts guy who stated that they rarely install a sub panel these days when installing an inverter such as this.

Anyway, still looking for helpful advise.

PW


I am not sure if I understand what you are going to accomplish. An inverter like this would need several battery's to be of any use....maybe to run a 110V TV for the evening. Meantime your on-board battery's (12 Volt system) are being charged by this inverter through the AC buss thus running down those extra battery's down quicker that are powering the inverter. Besides lights the 12 Volt system also keeps the refrigerator, furnace, and a few other things working when on propane.

You mention you want this inverter to "power your whole RV"....I think the first thing you'd need to do, if that is your goal, would be to install a hitch on the back of the 3010 so you could hook up the trailer hauling the battery's.

Maybe I am missing something here....I am not a dry camper but always thought people basically ran off of 12 volts and brought along a small generator if they wanted to do anything with AC and/or to charge up the 12 volt batterys.
 

2psnapod2

Texas-South Chapter Leaders-Retired
If you do not know what you are doing, I would definitely start doing some research before messing with it. I have read a few blogs that use there inverter like you say. But there systems all have a good battery set up. I would start by looking at blogs and websites of RVer that are boonedocking in there RVs.
 
Yup.. I've been spending countless hours reading blogs and posts about batteries, inverter installs, information and also misinformation. I won't dare attempt anything like this until I fully understand what I'm getting into. There will be a time though that I'll either admit defeat and get someone 'qualified' to do it, or I'll go ahead and tackle it myself. I'm still in the early stages, and still have a mindset that i'll do it myself. I'll learn something in the process, and i'll probably same myself a few grand.

If you do not know what you are doing, I would definitely start doing some research before messing with it. I have read a few blogs that use there inverter like you say. But there systems all have a good battery set up. I would start by looking at blogs and websites of RVer that are boonedocking in there RVs.
 

Phatkd

Well-known member
PW,

I sent you a PM with a really knowledgeable buddy of mine that doesn't live to far from you. He is a really good guy and won't steer you wrong or rip you off.

Kris
 

porthole

Retired
PW,

I don't see in the specs for that inverter if it is a "1 in 1 out" or 2 in 2 out". Meaning 1 or 2 AC inputs and 1 or 2 AC outputs.
The Magnums, like the discontinued Heart Interface line are excellent inverters.

The inverter has an excellent built in charger, so the trailer's converter gets disconnected.

The inverter has an automatic transfer switch. Switches fast enough that you almost cannot tell (depends on your eyes).
It will clean up all the power you have coming in, which is a benefit to your electronics.

You cannot use a Progressive Industries EMS system after the inverter, it will damage the EMS.

The only reason my Heart Interface 3K is not in the trialer yet is because it is 1 in 1 out unit. Like you, I wanted to have the whole trailer to have access to the cleaned up power.

I have tried, successfully, to run the AC off the inverter. I have also tried having the trailer's 12 power supplying the inverter supplemented by 12 volts off my truck.
My goal was to be able to run the AC while traveling and not using the genny. My truck has dual alternators with a combined 350 amp output. I have 2/0 battery cables running to the rear bumper for the the purpose of supplementing the inverter's house batteries.

I can tell you that either the AC or a 5000 BTU heater running in the trailer through the inverter draws about 150 DC amps.

If that unit is a 1 in 1 out then you will have to pick which leg you want to power from the inverter.
Option one would be to have the inverter installed like a generator and using a transfer switch, with the switch outputs tied together (like a 50-30 adapter)

Or, you could have your inverter just supply a receptacle box with a 50 female receptacle installed and the two hots tied together or a simple 30 amp.
Then plug in your trailer's 50 amp service into that inverter box.

That could be simplfied by making up your own cord with a 50 amp female on the trailer end a 30 amp male on the inverter end, with a cord just long enough to go from inverter to trailer.

"If" you left your inverter on full time, wired permanently in, you would eliminate all the surges your electronics see, and you stop losing the memroies on the AC powered devices. This is providing you have sufficient 12 volt storage.

I do something similar on our boat. TV's stereos and the like are all connected to a portable battery back up device (nothing more then an inverter with a built in transfer switch). That way the electronics never see a surge between being on shore power of generator power.

How long you can use that protection will depend on th equality and size of your battery bank.
If you run 4 quality 6 volt batteries and are not trying to run ACs and stuff you will have a nice system.

And keep in mind, inverters are not 100 % efficient.
 

dave10a

Well-known member
I have rewired my trailer for a 3kw inverter, replaced the wet cells with non-gassing sealed marine batteries, and installed 200w solar cells as well as a 4kw generator in the bed of the truck. It took a fair amount of planning and work to do these upgrades so I can dry camp anywhere without running out of power in a safe and reliable manner. As an electronic engineer that has work on power systems ranging from submarines to rockets, I can only recommend that anyone that modifies power systems be very knowledgeable with electricity and codes to be safe OR have a licensed professional help of do the work. I have seen to many people who consider themselves handy do very bad designs and workmanship. The simplest mistake can be very costly and hazzardous. So be ware :)
 

evolvingpowercat

Well-known member
I installed a large enough inverter (1350 Watt modified sine wave) to run the microwave or coffee pot on my Heartland Edge. Tips:
- 1350 Watt == 80 amps dc under full load so size fuse and wire accordingly
- Drawing that kind of current its best to run a home run cable from the inverter right to the batteries.
- I used the chassis to carry the ground current back to the batteries. Make sure to size wire to ground on both ends and the size of the ground lug and ground bolt/screw accordingly. Be sure to grind off all paint and get down to good bare metal where you do the bolt.
- Don't try to wire the inverter into your camper AC box unless you REALLY know what you are doing and install the proper transfer switch. Personally I just plug my load right into the inverter grounded AC outlets.
- If you plan to actually use the inverter when boondocking add another 12 volt battery.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the information - According to the documentation, the Magnum 2812 can be wired in multiple configurations:

Single In / Single Out(30A)
Single In / Single Out(60A)
Dual In / SingleOut
Dual In / Dual Out

pg. 24 of:
http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Manuals/Inverters/64-0007 Rev D (MS Series)_Web.pdf

Anyway, appreciate the comments. Thanks.

PW


PW,

I don't see in the specs for that inverter if it is a "1 in 1 out" or 2 in 2 out". Meaning 1 or 2 AC inputs and 1 or 2 AC outputs.
The Magnums, like the discontinued Heart Interface line are excellent inverters.

The inverter has an excellent built in charger, so the trailer's converter gets disconnected.

The inverter has an automatic transfer switch. Switches fast enough that you almost cannot tell (depends on your eyes).
It will clean up all the power you have coming in, which is a benefit to your electronics.

You cannot use a Progressive Industries EMS system after the inverter, it will damage the EMS.

The only reason my Heart Interface 3K is not in the trialer yet is because it is 1 in 1 out unit. Like you, I wanted to have the whole trailer to have access to the cleaned up power.

I have tried, successfully, to run the AC off the inverter. I have also tried having the trailer's 12 power supplying the inverter supplemented by 12 volts off my truck.
My goal was to be able to run the AC while traveling and not using the genny. My truck has dual alternators with a combined 350 amp output. I have 2/0 battery cables running to the rear bumper for the the purpose of supplementing the inverter's house batteries.

I can tell you that either the AC or a 5000 BTU heater running in the trailer through the inverter draws about 150 DC amps.

If that unit is a 1 in 1 out then you will have to pick which leg you want to power from the inverter.
Option one would be to have the inverter installed like a generator and using a transfer switch, with the switch outputs tied together (like a 50-30 adapter)

Or, you could have your inverter just supply a receptacle box with a 50 female receptacle installed and the two hots tied together or a simple 30 amp.
Then plug in your trailer's 50 amp service into that inverter box.

That could be simplfied by making up your own cord with a 50 amp female on the trailer end a 30 amp male on the inverter end, with a cord just long enough to go from inverter to trailer.

"If" you left your inverter on full time, wired permanently in, you would eliminate all the surges your electronics see, and you stop losing the memroies on the AC powered devices. This is providing you have sufficient 12 volt storage.

I do something similar on our boat. TV's stereos and the like are all connected to a portable battery back up device (nothing more then an inverter with a built in transfer switch). That way the electronics never see a surge between being on shore power of generator power.

How long you can use that protection will depend on th equality and size of your battery bank.
If you run 4 quality 6 volt batteries and are not trying to run ACs and stuff you will have a nice system.

And keep in mind, inverters are not 100 % efficient.
 

porthole

Retired
I installed a large enough inverter (1350 Watt modified sine wave) to run the microwave or coffee pot on my Heartland Edge. Tips:
- 1350 Watt == 80 amps dc under full load so size fuse and wire accordingly
- Drawing that kind of current its best to run a home run cable from the inverter right to the batteries.
- I used the chassis to carry the ground current back to the batteries. Make sure to size wire to ground on both ends and the size of the ground lug and ground bolt/screw accordingly. Be sure to grind off all paint and get down to good bare metal where you do the bolt.
- Don't try to wire the inverter into your camper AC box unless you REALLY know what you are doing and install the proper transfer switch. Personally I just plug my load right into the inverter grounded AC outlets.
- If you plan to actually use the inverter when boondocking add another 12 volt battery.

Good luck.

I would suggest that you add a home run for the ground and do not rely on the chassis for that. A 1350 watt inverter running at approximately 80% efficieny will only give you about 1100 watts with all wiring being perfect.

Have you tried the coffee pot or micro to see how it works on the inverter? Check with a voltmeter just to be sure the voltage is sufficient?
 

brianharrison

Well-known member
I installed my 3000W Xantrex with new batteries - Link to install.

I also know of a few mobile RV installers who have installed inverter systems for others in the Calgary area. PM if you wish to get this info.

Good luck.

Brian

EDIT - I used a sub panel, I did not install the inverter in the main power coming into the AC panel, as Duane suggests; My system looks something like this after install of the inverter and sub panel - I borrowed this from a fellow enthusiast on the web. I do not have the Onan 5500 gen.
 

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scottyb

Well-known member
Brian, I am wanting to do something similar on my Cyclone. BTW, thanks for the link to the thread with the photos. It helps a lot having the visual to back up the description. One question; is Shore / genny power tied into the sub panel, as well as inverter power? I'm not seeing that in the diagram.
 

brianharrison

Well-known member
Hello scottyb, Shore/genny power are tied into the sub panel as the Xantrex SW3000 has an automatic transfer switch built in that passes through AC once connected to 120V. Once AC in is disabled (ie shore power or gen power is not present) the inverter switches to inverter mode. Hope this helps. Brian
 

scottyb

Well-known member
Brian, it helps a bunch. That's the part I wasn't getting. The Xantrex provides the AC either by shore/gen or by inverted power. Now I know why I need a charger / inverter like the Xantrex instead of just an inverter.
 

brianharrison

Well-known member
Brian, it helps a bunch. That's the part I wasn't getting. The Xantrex provides the AC either by shore/gen or by inverted power. Now I know why I need a charger / inverter like the Xantrex instead of just an inverter.

There are inverters only that also have built in transfer switches; it is a convenience that I prefer rather than plugging in/turning on an inverter when it is needed (ie no shore/gen power). Certainly installations that require this manual step function just as effectively.

The choice for a combo inverter/charger is to upgrade the charger from the OEM unit. In my case the PD9280 in my coach was adequate for a battery bank of up to 320Ah, nominally; typically flooded wet cell. I have installed a battery bank of 520Ah (Absorbed Glass Mat: AGM). Rule of thumb is the charger should put out a charge rate of C/4 (C is 20 hr Ah battery bank capacity). My Xantrex has a 150A charger, vs 80A for the OEM unit. As well the higher end chargers like Xantrex allow the user to change the charge algorithm to match the type of battery bank; in my case to AGM from flooded wet cell.

I appreciate this is a lot of information however it is something to consider while trying to keep things straight while deciding on your inverter install configuration.

Brian
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