Dual Honda 2000's Not Enough

Has anyone tried running their 2014 Landmark with the residential refrigerator on dual Honda 2000 generators???

For the past five years I ran my Bighorn 3600RE with dual Honda 2000 gennies in parralel with no problem when running just one AC. When traveling to the Pigeon Forge area from home we always stop and spend the night in a rest area about halfway there during the summer. So this past weekend I wired in my 30amp plug into the gen prep box because we are heading out this weekend to the Smokies for the 4th of July. I started up my Honda gennies, plugged in the 30amp cord and my Progressive EMS gave me an open ground indicator and would not let power flow through. Ok, no big problem, I just wired up a bonding plug (although I NEVER had to use one on the Bighorn) and tried again. Everything worked fine.....until I tried to turn on the AC. When the AC compressor kicks in the initial load is so heavy that the EMS shuts the power down. My first thought was maybe the new residential refer compressor was trying to run at the same time as the AC and maybe the converter as well. To make a long story short, I turned off every breaker except for the AC and the dual gennies still would not power up the AC. I have dual heat pumps and tried both of them one at a time and neither would work. There is no paperwork with my Landmark that tells me anything about the power consumption of the AC units. Did find instructions on the thermostats but not the units themselves. Just wondering how many amps do these new AC units draw on startup. So again, has anyone tried running their new coach off of a dual setup yet and how did it respond? Hope I can figure this out before Friday. Hate sweating while trying to sleep.

Did you try running the fan only all the time and then turn on the AC compressor? That is what I do to run the AC with my Honda 3K.

Keep in mind that the converter can also draw 10-15 AC amps depending on the 12 volt load.

porthole said:

Did you try running the fan only all the time and then turn on the AC compressor? That is what I do to run the AC with my Honda 3K.

Keep in mind that the converter can also draw 10-15 AC amps depending on the 12 volt load.

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On the new heat pump units on my Key Largo, the fan comes on first and starts circulating the air and then the compressor kicks in about 15 or 20 seconds later so the fan and compressor are not loading up at the same time. Also, I turned off EVERY breaker except for the AC so there is no power going anywhere except to the AC. It has full use of the available 25+ amps being supplied by the dual gennies. It is hard for me to believe that only one of the newer AC unit can not start up on 25 amps but so far that seems to be the case. I keep hoping I am missing something somewhere but scratching my head as to what it might be????

Was the A/C unit in your BH a heat pump too?

pegmikef said:

Was the A/C unit in your BH a heat pump too?

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Yes it was a heat pump also but it was a 15000 BTU Carrier AirV that I installed myself. It is not the same as the heat pumps Heartland is using. On the Carrier AirV heat pump the fan and compressor both loaded up at the same time when turned on and I still never had a problem with it. When the Carrier AirV, or even the regulalr Dometic AC in the living area of the Bighorn, kicked in you could hear the gennies strain just a little for a couple of seconds and then right back to running full speed. On the Key Largo when the AC kicks in it pulls the dual gennies down to almost a stop before the EMS cuts the power due to low voltage. On shore power I noticed that the Progressive EMS display shows that one AC unit is pulling 15 - 16 amps under normal operation. Surely it is not pulling 25 amps on initial compressor startup.

You might consider installing/adding a start-up capacitor to your AC unit. The Suppo Cap. sure helped my AC start-up on generator power. The Heat Pump/AC type units may draw more power to start up.

Gee, I don't know then. I just looked on the Dometic site and they say the required circuit protection for the 15 k hp/AC is only 20 amps and the gererator requirement is 3.5/5 kw . . . the Hondas are right around that so you must be really close. I run my 15 k AC just fine with mine even when it is around 100 degrees outside.

Did you have the EMS on your old unit? It is the EMS that is shutting off the power - not the generators tripping out.

Brian

brianharrison said:

Did you have the EMS on your old unit? It is the EMS that is shutting off the power - not the generators tripping out.

Brian

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Yes, I had this EMS on my old unit and yes it is the EMS shutting off the power but only because the AC on startup pulls the gennies down to the point they almost die. So ther EMS shuts off the power due to the voltage dropping so low when the gennies nearly stall out. This never even came close to happening when using the EMS and dual gennies on my old unit.

mountainlovers76 said:

Yes, I had this EMS on my old unit and yes it is the EMS shutting off the power but only because the AC on startup pulls the gennies down to the point they almost die. So ther EMS shuts off the power due to the voltage dropping so low when the gennies nearly stall out. This never even came close to happening when using the EMS and dual gennies on my old unit.

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That is odd - I run the two Honda 2000s no problem with the 15K BTU AC on my Landmark - albeit on a 2011 Landmark with a Dometic AC. I have the EMS and do not drop out on low voltage.

Sorry I cannot be more help - someone with a newer model (with residential refrig) and Honda 2000s may have to chip in to the discussion.

Have you tried running with ECO switch off on the generators?

Brian

brianharrison said:

Have you tried running with ECO switch off on the generators?

Brian

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Yes,I always run with ECO off when using the AC.

I finally got around to installing a hard start capacitor on the AC/Heat Pump and still no luck in getting it to start on my dual Honda 2000 gennies. Really puts a crimp in the way I like to travel and use rest areas at night.

I had the same problem with my 2000 watt Yamahas until I found a video on the Internet showing how to hook up the hard start capacitor. I assumed since both wires were black just hook it up. If you pop the cap one of the wires is hooked to what looks like, for lack of proper term, a rectangular box. That wire goes to power on AC. Mine worked fine after that. Also you have to turn the EMS switch off when running the inverters.


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Steve and Carrie
HOC# 2252
2007 GMC 2500HD Duramax
B&W Companion Hitch
2012 Sundance 3300CK

I have a companion and a 2000i and it runs our 15k AC just fine. Maybe your AC compressor is drawing too much power. Check the amp draw when the AC compressor cycles on when plugged into power and make sure it is within limits. If it is, one of the Honda's must be bad.

Rod Ditrich

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Any way to check both generators are actually putting out?

I am not aware of a consumer easy test, or retail tool to support this to fully test the generators. That being said, if you have an external load that you know the amp draw - you could rig up a test cord with hot wire separate from common and use a clamp on ammeter to measure amps. You should have sufficient knowledge and comfort around electricity to undertake this simplified test method.

The easiest, and safest way IMHO, is to take them into a Honda dealer and get them to test them.

Hope this helps,
Brian

Gang:
This thread raised my interest in air conditioning hard start capacitors, I did a websearch, and came up with this interesting informational document from Supco, a leading provider of these items. Included in this document were assertions that hard start kits reduce overall power usage, and are "the fountain of youth" for air conditioning compressors. They also said that hard start capacitors SHOULD be on most ALL air conditioning systems, but have been eliminated on many systems as a cost cutting measure. Some aspects of the document are beyond me, as I am not a refrigeration expert, and I would consult with an expert as to which device to use.
Here is the link: http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/AC Hardstarts Booklet.pdf

I did finally check both my Honda 2000 gennies and they are working fine. While I have not had time lately to work on this problem, I did narrow it down to the surge protector that came installed in my Landmark. I took my Progressive EMS out of the loop and it is the surge protector shutting down the power when the heat pump kicks in. I am not saying the surge protector is defective, only that it is the device shutting down the power when the heat pump tries to start. Since I did install a hard start capacitor and that did not change anything I do not think it is the heat pump drawing to much of a load. Maybe the surge protector is just too sensitive to the sudden voltage or amperage change. My next step is to take the factory installed surge protector out of the loop and add my Progressive EMS back. That setup always worked fine in my old Bighorn when running the heat pump I installed in it. Will try and update everyone when I get time to make the changes.

The Progressive Industries EMS HW-50C has user configurable time delay settings for air conditioning delay: 15 seconds (Factory Default) and 136 seconds. You may want to remove the 15 second delay jumper and see how that works, or bypass the EMS with the remote switch. Read your EMS manual for more info, or call Progressive.

You are supposed to turn the EMS unit off when using inverters. I still had issues getting my AC started without a hard start capacitor. I called Progressive once and they told me even with the switch off the unit still protects against high and low voltage surges. My Yamaha inverters weren't throttling up quick enough and the relays in the EMS would chatter like mad. Once in a while I still get that just a little.


Steve and Carrie
HOC#2252
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