Cyclone 3800 Magnum Inverter Install !

I have wanted a inverter for a few years ever since I had our Raptor. We dry camp a lot and starting the gen at 7-8am to make coffee and allow the kids to watch movies was getting old lol. This year I pulled the pin and bought a Magnum MS2812 with the Auto Gen start kit and Battery Monitor Kit. I was going to have it installed but not trusting most people I decided to do it myself.

There are a few ways to wire the AC side of it. You can either power the entire AC panel (easiest way) or you can isolate the circuits on the main panel via a sub panel (little more wiring). I chose to power the entire panel as a very smart RV parts guy told me that's how they do all of the installs at his dealership. I decided to try it and if need be could always at a sub panel later if need be.

I read throughout the manuals regarding AC and DC wire size. It can be a little confusing depending on the install type and inverter wiring configuration. Just don't over read into it. I settled on 4/0 wire for all the battery connections. I used a 4g case ground. The AC wire in the transfer switch is 6g so I stuck with it for my install. I ended up doing a dual in dual out configuration. This only required 10g AC wire but I used 6g which is over kill IMO.

The gen start kit is straight forward and our Onan gen had the remote wire running to the switch in the panel so I just tapped into it in the battery compartment. I thought this was going to be the hardest part. I called Magnum just to double check the DIP switch settings and wire config. It was very easy to do. Magnum is awesome to deal with and their support is excellent.

A couple other things. You need to think about how you will mount the inverter. I knew I would mount it sideways but gave no thought to the weight of the unit. I ended up using 1/4 checker plate aluminum bolted to the steel frame behind the storage 1/2" crap board. I would not bolt this type of unit to that board. Also I used a GoPower inverter 4/0 install kit that came with a type T fuse. I also ended up buying another 10ft section of 4/0 which I didn't end up using because once i cut the install kit wire I had enough left over to wire all my batteries. You need a proper crimper if you do this yourself.

I completed the install and have to say I should of done this years ago. This system works excellent and when the batts get low the system fires the gen to charge the batts. I can power almost everything in the trailer at once lol (testing). The remote panel is amazing and you can set all the parameters easily. You can set a quiet time for the gen set as well which is nice for noise sensitive places.

here are a few pictures. If you need help with yours let me know. Cheers

Nicely done!

Very nice!

Nice job! Great looking installation. This is one of the two setups that I have narrowed it down to, the other being the Outback 2812. I am especially glad to hear about the good customer service from Magnum. It seems like another well-known manufacturer is getting very bad feedback about their service.

A couple questions; What is meant by 2 in / 2 out? If wired directly to the panel, I assume the full 50A shore power passes through the inverter's transfer switch? Is there a system in place that prevents an air conditioner from trying to run off the inverter?

Thanks

scottyb said:

A couple questions; What is meant by 2 in / 2 out? If wired directly to the panel, I assume the full 50A shore power passes through the inverter's transfer switch? Is there a system in place that prevents an air conditioner from trying to run off the inverter?

Thanks

Click to expand...

2 hot legs into the inverter, 2 hot legs out - L1 and L2. There may be a transfer switch on each leg, possibly 30 amp rated each.
Not the way the OP has wired the inverter to feed the main panel. Only manual intervention, to prevent the Air Conditioner from running.

scottyb said:

It seems like another well-known manufacturer is getting very bad feedback about their service.

Click to expand...

Who xantrex? I know myself and just today another fellow camper have had the same lack of CS with xantrex over identical issues with 2 different inverter models.

The remote panels typically display 1-1.6 volts lower the actual supply voltage and continually drop out due to "low voltage"

brianharrison said:

2 hot legs into the inverter, 2 hot legs out - L1 and L2. There may be a transfer switch on each leg, possibly 30 amp rated each.
Not the way the OP has wired the inverter to feed the main panel. Only manual intervention, to prevent the Air Conditioner from running.

Click to expand...

So where does the "power in" come from, since the "power out" goes directly to the panel?

scottyb said:

So where does the "power in" come from, since the "power out" goes directly to the panel?

Click to expand...

The original OP can weigh in with his exact configuration, but as I read his post - the "power in" to the inverter, is a 4 wire 6AWG feed coming from the generator/shore power automatic transfer switch. The 4 wire contains two hots, L1 and L2 (black and red), one common (white) and one ground wire (bare). This is the typical main AC feed configuration for a 50Amp camper with generator prep/installation. This is considered a dual in. The OP has the ability to wire the output of the inverter in a dual out (L1 and L2) directly to the main feed panel, where the two hots are protected by a ganged 50A breaker (like this).

Hope this helps.
Brian

EDIT - this answer is for when AC passes through the inverter (ie inlet AC is present). If AC drops out and the inverter is activated, the power in comes from the 4/0 battery cables in 12V and it is "inverted" to dual out AC, 120V.

The original OP can weigh in with his exact configuration, but as I read his post - the "power in" to the inverter, is a 4 wire 6AWG feed coming from the generator/shore power automatic transfer switch.

Click to expand...

Maybe he will respond, but this is what is confusing to me. If it is connected to shore power, then it would have 50A on each leg. The Magnum installation manual says "30 amps per leg pass through capability"

scottyb said:

Maybe he will respond, but this is what is confusing to me. If it is connected to shore power, then it would have 50A on each leg. The Magnum installation manual says "30 amps per leg pass through capability"

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You are correct - and hopefully the OP adds his comments.

My thoughts: The 50A feed can see up to 6000W on each leg (120V*50A) for a total of 12,000W. This is higher than 30A which can see up to 3,600W on each leg (in a dual in/dual out) for a total of 7,200W. The incremental 2,400W on each leg (6000-3600) would be a concern for the wire and the internals of the Magnum 2815 inverter. As he has used correct wire size for 50A (6AWG as is run for his main feed and panel), the wire should not be a problem. It is the inverter that I would be concerned about. I am wondering what the mode of failure would be if there was a continuous AC pass through of more than 3,600W on either leg.

Unfortunately the info the OP got on how to wire in this unit was misleading, IMHO. A reputable RV shop would NOT wire this inverter into a 50A service (with 30A internal transfer switches). It would open them to liability suits, if there ever was an incident. That being said, a DIYer can do whatever he/she wants to their unit. Possibly the OP understands this and will limit his AC use while on shore power to near 3,600W per leg. I chose to wire my Xantrex Freedom SW3000 downstream of my main panel, fed by dual 30amp breakers, and output to a subpanel simply due to the 30AMP internal transfer switch issue. I could not get answer to what would happen if I passed through more than 3,600W per leg.

Brian

Limited info on the spec sheets.

Expanded transfer relay:
60 Amp transfer service is available on all models except MS2000, which is 30 Amp only.



Transfer relay capability
MS2000: 30 A single input
MS2012, MS2812, MS4024: 2 legs at 30 A for 120 V/30 A or 240 V/60 A service


If the trailer's panel is balanced it most likely will not be a problem.
Our trailer had the converter, 2 A/C's and the water heater all on one leg, along with most of the outlets.

From page 24 of the manual.

When the inverter is in Standby mode, the full AC continuous pass-thru capacity of the MS Series inverter/charger is 30 amps for each AC leg1 (AC HOT 1 and AC HOT 2). For a 30-amp continuous pass-thru capability, each AC HOT input to the inverter requires a 30-amp continuous duty rated breaker2, which corresponds to a minimum cable size of #10 AWG (in conduit). However, the AC HOT 1 and AC HOT 2 may be combined to obtain a 60-amp pass-thru capability2 (see Figure 2-10). When tying the AC HOT 1 and HOT 2 together for a 60-amp continuous pass-thru capability, the AC input to the inverter requires a 60-amp continuous duty rated breaker, which corresponds to a minimum cable size of #6 AWG (in conduit). If you are using other circuit breakers/wire sizes, refer to the appropriate electrical codes for sizing requirements.

http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Manuals/Inverters/64-0007 Rev D (MS Series)_Web.pdf

porthole said:

From page 24 of the manual.
However, the AC HOT 1 and AC HOT 2 may be combined to obtain a 60-amp pass-thru capability2 (see Figure 2-10). When tying the AC HOT 1 and HOT 2 together for a 60-amp continuous pass-thru capability, the AC input to the inverter requires a 60-amp continuous duty rated breaker, which corresponds to a minimum cable size of #6 AWG (in conduit). If you are using other circuit breakers/wire sizes, refer to the appropriate electrical codes for sizing requirements.

http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Manuals/Inverters/64-0007 Rev D (MS Series)_Web.pdf

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Thanks for posting the manual Duane - as I look at Table 2-3, page 24, the 60A breaker would protect a single wire input (6AWG); I am thinking the inverter splits the feed internally to the two transfer switches (30A). The bottom of the table still shows the max inverter pass through capacity as 7200W. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any shore power in any campground that provides a single pole 60A service. . The OP will be code compliant if he always plugs into the SP 30A shore connection. He will be non code compliant if the plugs into the 50A double pole shore connection, but he may be OK if loads in the trailer per leg are always less than 3,600W.

The key here is that even though our 50A units are wired for a max power usage of 12,000W (50A at 120V, 6.000 per leg), the hope is that the loads on a BALANCED DUAL FEED AC PANEL, never exceeds 3.600W per leg. I may have to do some testing and spreadsheet calculations on my unit to see how it is balanced to test this theory. When I did my inverter install I rebalanced the loads on L1 and L2 by estimating the load usage; I am curious to confirm actuals.

Brian

Thought I'd chime in on direct wiring an inverter to the main AC panel. This method comes with inherent issues. When you invert to the main panel (no shore power), your inverter batteries "heat up" all circuits in the main panel. The first issue is that almost every RV these days has a converter/charger installed. It plugs into an electrical outlet. Without shore power and in invert mode, the converter will still run and charge your 12V batteries. Since the inverter uses it's own batteries to power your electrical panel, that means that the you are using the inverter batteries to charge the house batteries. So, to avoid one set of batteries charging the other set of batteries, you need to turn the converter breaker off. Since most inverter batteries would drain rapidly if an air conditioner comes on, you have to remember to turn the air conditioners off. If you have an electric water heater, you also have to make sure it's running on gas, not auto or AC.

I would venture an opinion that inverters factory installed or professionally installed would recommend the addition of a sub panel with just those circuits used by the inverter installed in the sub panel. I attached the picture of my motorhome electrical panel. You can see the main and sub panels. The sub panel is powered by a 30amp breaker running from the main panel into and out of the inverter then back to the sub panel. When shore power is attached, the power passes through the inverter and up to the sub panel.

I installed a couple of inverters in friend's rv's and we always installed a sub panel and moved the necessary breakers from the main panel to the sub panel. If you're undertaking the installation as a DIY, while doing the install, adding the sub panel is just another step (yep, a bigger step) but worthwhile to make sure you don't inadvertently run down all of your batteries because you forgot to turn something off.

Thought I'd add...yes, a motorhome. As soon as it sells, we're going to own a BC 3251TS. I'm on the forum to learn everything I can about HL and their 5th wheels.

bwc1950, did you replace your original panel with the one in the photo or did it come in your MH?

brianharrison said:

The original OP can weigh in with his exact configuration, but as I read his post - the "power in" to the inverter, is a 4 wire 6AWG feed coming from the generator/shore power automatic transfer switch. The 4 wire contains two hots, L1 and L2 (black and red), one common (white) and one ground wire (bare). This is the typical main AC feed configuration for a 50Amp camper with generator prep/installation. This is considered a dual in. The OP has the ability to wire the output of the inverter in a dual out (L1 and L2) directly to the main feed panel, where the two hots are protected by a ganged 50A breaker (like this).

Hope this helps.
Brian

EDIT - this answer is for when AC passes through the inverter (ie inlet AC is present). If AC drops out and the inverter is activated, the power in comes from the 4/0 battery cables in 12V and it is "inverted" to dual out AC, 120V.

Click to expand...

Yes this is correct. I seriously thought about the sub panel idea. To me it made perfect sense. However my parts guy who works for a huge RV dealer and has installed hundreds of them in all sorts of RV's has always installed them direct to the panel. He told me the reason most guys bought these originally was to bump start AC units in crappy 15amp campsites. He only ever had one guy complain. This customer had dual AC units and did not wire in another transfer switch as per their recommendation.

I have switched the breaker off to the original converter. Thought it may come in handy if the inverter should go bad. I treat the inverter as one more thing to ensure it is off prior to driving away when in storage. Same as batteries and propane etc.

The system works excellent thus far. Our family dry camps a lot and we all know what can and can't be turned on without the gen set or shore power connected. I wired this unit myself because I know that a dealer or mobile guy would never take the time to do a install the way I would. I can always wire a subpanel if needed to isolate some circuits but now believe it is not necessary.

My RV parts guys must of been right LOL

Thanks for that information. If the loads are balanced in the panel, there should never be more than 30A passing through either leg of the inverter.

scottyb....I apologize for not seeing your question before now.....the electrical panel (main & sub panel) were factory installed. Since HL is now installing optional residential refrigerators (120v) and an inverter, I would like to see pictures of their installation setup. But, it sounds like they are installing an inverter and battery that power JUST the refrigerator outlet.

I am a big advocate of inverters. I do a combination of "hooked up" camping and dry camping (Quartzsite, AZ for example). In the newer RV's (both motorhomes and trailers) many things run or need to run on 120v power. ie, big screen TV's, Satellite receivers, CPAP machines, etc. And in my case, a drip coffee maker, microwave. Without an inverter, the TV set gets turned off when the generator needs to be shut off. With an inverter, you can keep watching til the wee hours and you can brew coffee early in the morning before generators are allowed.....

After reading the HL forums for awhile now, it seems that inverters are something an owner would add on their own if they want 120v power during quiet hours in dry camp areas (State Parks). Since I am sold on the HL product, I would certainly like to see them take the lead and wire up an "inverter ready" electrical system at the factory as a standard feature.

http://youtu.be/wL9Ht5rQNmM Watch this video of my install