Lights and Power Surging in 2011 Sundance-Help!

BBslider001

Active Member
Hey all, I am fairly new to the forum and been a Heartland Sundance owner for 2 years now. We love our unit and have had no problems, until lately. We moved to a park further down the way and have noticed surging in the unit since hooked up at our new spot. The lightswill dim and go normal, then dim and go normal. There is no real pattern other than it seems to do it in the morning and then the evening when everyone in the park is home. I thought it was the box at our site, so we plugged it in to the site next to us and it still surged and flickers. I have asked neighbors and they say they aren't experiencing the same issue. I have noticed the converter making a slight "draw" noise when this happens, like a very slight buzzing sound.

So, my question is where do I even begin to troubleshoot this? We have an extended warranty, but I don't think electrical is covered. When is electrical ever covered? :confused: Is the issue most likely with my unit or the park having older electrical? We have a 50 amp unit plugged into 30 amp shore power. We have had to do this before, but never experienced an issue. Thanks for any input!! It will be greatly appreciated.
 

whp4262

Well-known member
I have a Cyclone and I can access the converter plug through a port hole in the basement wall. If you can do the same you might try plugging the converter into an extension cord plugged into the 120v outlet on the pedestal. This will bypass the A/C side of you coach. If the problem persists then you will know that the problem is not in the A/C power supply side of your coach. That leaves the pedestal or the D/C side of your coach starting with the converter on.


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danemayer

Well-known member
Hi BBslider001,

Power Converters have several output modes used to maintain the battery, so voltage levels coming out of the converter will vary. Normally you wouldn't notice this in the lighting because both the converter and battery are supplying 12V power to the fuse box and 12V lights and other things.

I'm wondering if maybe the power from your battery is not getting to the fuse box. There's a 12V automotive style circuit breaker near the battery that can trip, causing problems like this. Take a look at our 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic Guide. There are diagrams showing how the 12V system components work together, along with a photo of a 12V circuit breaker and its teeny tiny reset button. The breakers are usually located on a buss bar near the battery.
 

JohnDar

Prolifically Gabby Member
When the converter is in Boost mode, you may see the lights brighten and then dim when it completes the cycle. Ours has been doing this since Day 1. At first I thought something was goofy until I installed the Charge Wizard pendant. The light indicates what the converter is doing. If you had/have a digital display for your surge suppressor (you have one, right?), it would also show if there is a significant variance in the voltage to the rig as the draw on the CG grid changes.
 

Garypowell

Well-known member
Two years old is a little soon but just before our last rigs converter went out it started doing this lights brighter then dimmer routine. Not to panic if you travel with a battery charger as this can be your backup when it finally dies and you wait for a replacement.
 

BBslider001

Active Member
Thank you guys for the input. I am going to do some testing with my meter and see if the battery and the relay for the battery are showing correct. I did take off the porthole to access the converter and will try that option as well to see what I get. It's funny, I ahve been having electrical issues with my truck as well. I am a good mechanic, but I know very little about electrical troubleshooting, so this has been good for me! I'll report back with my findings! Thanks again.
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
Be sure to check all the connections on the neutral buss bar.
My converter was doing what you have described. After a while it just died.
I used a battery charger for a couple of weeks till I could replace the converter.

Peace
Dave
 

wdk450

Well-known member
The boost mode from the converter that John Dar mentioned should only happen for 15 minutes every 21 hours; and this only after the batteries have gone through a full initial boost and normal mode charging (about 24 hours) then 30 hours of storage mode charging. So, you should not see the 15 minute surges every 21 hours until about 3 days after you plug in at a campsite. I agree that your battery acts as a "large current bucket" wired across your converter/charger's 12 volt DC output that will normally filter the small voltage variations. Both the converter/charger and battery need to be checked along with the associated wiring and circuit breaker.

Here is a link to an explanation of the charge wizard's operation: http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/charge_wizard.html

If your converter/charger is NOT a Progressive Dynamics PD9200 series, and it is bad, I would seriously consider upgrading to a model in this series, even at the higher expense. In my opinion this will give you the best battery life (especially if the rig is kept plugged in in storage).
 

BBslider001

Active Member
Well,I think that I found the relay right off of the battery to be bad. I tested it with a meter and got 0.0 volts. I have 12.7 at the battery. Also, I should have asked earlier, but what is the neutral buss bar? It looks like all connections are good and the converter has a tight connection. Both are very easy to check since good access is provided. Replacing the converter, if I had to, would take about 5 minutes. All of my fuses are good and connections a tteh back of the main panel are good. Last night it got ridiculous. the lights would flicker 3 times, go normal, dim for 2 minutes,and then go normal etc.... There was no real pattern to it. Then, after an hour or so, it just stopped and all was fine. This type of behavior made me wonder if it was the park and not my trailer, but other neighbors say they have noticed nothing.
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
If you follow the white wire from the battery it should terminate at a block. This block, neutral buss, should have a bunch of white wire also going to it.
Be sure that all the screws holding the white wires are tight.
Even though your neighbors are not seeing a problem, they are not plugged into your pedestal. There could be a problem in that area.
It is not uncommon to have a bad breaker or bad connection in an RV park pedestal.

Peace
Dave
 

whp4262

Well-known member
BBslider001 are you asking about the common or neutral buss bar on the A/C side or the negative side of the DC circuit?
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Well,I think that I found the relay right off of the battery to be bad. I tested it with a meter and got 0.0 volts.
I've attached a picture of the 12V circuit breaker that is located near the battery (one of several). If this is what showed 0.0 volts, look to see if there's a teeny-tiny reset button (or feel for it with your finger).

Or when you say "relay" are you talking about something else?
 

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BBslider001

Active Member
If you follow the white wire from the battery it should terminate at a block. This block, neutral buss, should have a bunch of white wire also going to it.
Be sure that all the screws holding the white wires are tight.
Even though your neighbors are not seeing a problem, they are not plugged into your pedestal. There could be a problem in that area.
It is not uncommon to have a bad breaker or bad connection in an RV park pedestal.

Peace
Dave

Thanks Dave! I thought that is what it was, but just wanted to be sure. All of the connections seem to be good and tight.

BBslider001 are you asking about the common or neutral buss bar on the A/C side or the negative side of the DC circuit?

I think on the A/C side.

I've attached a picture of the 12V circuit breaker that is located near the battery (one of several). If this is what showed 0.0 volts, look to see if there's a teeny-tiny reset button (or feel for it with your finger).

Or when you say "relay" are you talking about something else?

That would be the one. There does not seem to be a reset switch on there, but I will look again! I will probably get one today or tomorrow and replace it.
 
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BBslider001

Active Member
Well guys, it seems the problem persists and I have yet to figure this out. I replaced the relay right at the battery and it is no different. I listened to the converter cycle and do its thing while the surge or "dimming" would happen. It made some noises like it was shorting out, the fan kicked on, and the lights went back to normal. I am wondering if I should have someone come look at it or if I can handle this myself. Would the converter normall make those kinds of sounds? My last unit was older,butthe convdrter had been uograded by me. It never made and noise or gave me any problems. This unit is only 2 years old. It just doesn't seem like this should be happening, but I know things happen. Also, sorry for taking awhile to repost. been outta commission with school and life stuff for a few weeks. Thanks so much for the input. It means a ton!
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Two points: First of all I would refer to the common grounded buss for the 12 volt wiring as the "low voltage grounding buss." Using the term "neutral buss" in reference to this can cause confusion with the generally accepted term for the white wire, return wiring buss used in the 120 volt AC breaker box. Confusing 120 volt AC wiring and 12 volt DC wiring can be very dangerous. Second, If you can get a hold of ANY known good 12 volt automotive lead-acid battery for testing, put it in place of the installed battery for a short test and see if the problem remains. Of course, get a proper deep discharge battery if this proves to be the problem. Your symptoms might match an intermittently shorting lead-acid cell.
 
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BBslider001

Active Member
I was experiencing the same symptoms on my previous 5th wheel. Changed out the converter and all was fixed.

Hmmm, this gives me some hope and makes me think it is the converter. If it wasn't making odd sounds, I would be unsure.

Two points: First of all I would refer to the common grounded buss for the 12 volt wiring as the "low voltage grounding buss." Using the term "neutral buss" in reference to this can cause confusion with the generally accepted term for the white wire, return wiring buss used in the 120 volt AC breaker box. Confusing 120 volt AC wiring and 12 volt DC wiring can be very dangerous. Second, If you can get a hold of ANY 12 volt automotive lead-acid battery for testing, put it in place of the installed battery for a short test and see if the problem remains. Of course, get a proper deep discharge battery if this proves to be the problem. Your symptoms might match an intermittently shorting lead-acid cell.

This is a good idea. I, like a moron, did not check the battery for about 9 months. I just plain forgot with everything else happening. I did check the water level when all of this started and it was really low. It was lower than it should be or I have ever let it get. I added distilled water, but I wonder if it is toast. Previous experience tells me if a battery ever runs dry, a cell is most likely done at that point. Stay tuned!!
 

BBslider001

Active Member
Alright everyone, I have found the issue, and was somewhat surprised. It is my converter. I have read numerous reviews on the particular model I have and have found it to be consistently a bad performer. In short, it really sucks! I am going to replacing it with Progressive Dynamics unit under warranty. How frustrating on a unit that is only 2 years old, but ce la vie. I am also experiencing water heater issues with the electric side of it, but I am thinking that might have to do with a converter that is not operating to full capacity. The heating element is new and the anode rod is new as well. I'll keep you guys posted as I get things sorted out. Thanks!! Happy T day!!!!
 

JohnDar

Prolifically Gabby Member
Alright everyone, I have found the issue, and was somewhat surprised. It is my converter. I have read numerous reviews on the particular model I have and have found it to be consistently a bad performer. In short, it really sucks! I am going to replacing it with Progressive Dynamics unit under warranty. How frustrating on a unit that is only 2 years old, but ce la vie. I am also experiencing water heater issues with the electric side of it, but I am thinking that might have to do with a converter that is not operating to full capacity. The heating element is new and the anode rod is new as well. I'll keep you guys posted as I get things sorted out. Thanks!! Happy T day!!!!

I don't believe the converter should affect the electric (120V) operation of the water heater. You might want to check the thermostat mounted on the outer face of the water heater. It may have tripped or need replacing. I had to replace mine last summer. Easy job and not too expensive.
 
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