World's First Triple Axle 300C?

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Some of you have read here about my complaints/issues with the chassis of our 300C and some of you have experienced the same issues. I had made it as good as it possibly could be with only two axles, so I made the jump.......

Before:


The Plan.....


Prep: 10' of 2.5X2.5X.250" tube is the new foundation of the spring hangers. I needed a little bit more lift to clear the rear slide room beam in front of the center tire. EZFlexes and Correct Tracks with the narrower 33" axle spacing:


Stripped of all things under the beam to make room for 10' of tube:
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Second set of EZFlex's toasted along with the bronze bushings. Amazing enough, ALL of the Never Fails that were originally installed were reused for a wear rate of better than 2-1 over the bronze so far.....


Trying to figure out how far back the axle group can go to the rear:




Getting thing a strait as the beams were a little twisted:
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Burning it in....lots of stitch welds:


Greasing with Amsoils relatively new super trick 5% moly synthetic polymeric off-road grease designed for equipment with pivoting pins, like tractors.


Cutting the fender openings with the plasma cutter...measure twice, cut once!


Looks like it might work? Group ended up 7.5" to the rear. Should pull nice with that heavy pig Can Am in the garage now.......
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
I have only towed it 10 miles so far. I know it feels way different, but too early to tell you all how I like it.

We will tow it 130 miles this weekend with a medium/average load and I should have a pretty good idea by then.

A few things I have noticed already: 1. When jacking the chassis up to put the the tires back on, there is no noticeable creaking and popping in the walls anymore. 2. It feels super planted without the stabilizers down.

Now we all know it can be done with some skills, tools, and lots of $$$$! Start ordering supplies Matt!
 
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CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Icon in Canada. They are a rough finish instead of the smooth, but they feel a little tougher. I wanted aluminum, but had a dificult time sourcing something that would work with the openings that were already cut originally.

Now I just need a "Class 7" truck to pull it......

Maybe I could get Heartland to send me a new 25K GVW sticker for the trailer?:eek:
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
Great Post! Thanks for all the pics and effort. Only one question. Have you had it weighed yet? Let us know what the end result is. Thanks Again.

On edit, I realize you've greatly increased your capacity. It would just be good to know what your new axle and pin weights are.
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Great Post! Thanks for all the pics and effort. Only one question. Have you had it weighed yet? Let us know what the end result is. Thanks Again.

On edit, I realize you've greatly increased your capacity. It would just be good to know what your new axle and pin weights are.

Thank you!

I have not visited the scale with this setup yet as I just finished late last night. I don't really feel that I increased my capacity, but I'm going to be over that 16K GVW sticker just from the extra weight of the components. My main focus was more brakes, stability, and getting 30% of the weight off the 4 tires and adding some more safety margin. As long as the gooseneck part of the chassis holds together, we'll be fine.

My calculations of 2.73% increase in wheelbase with approximately the 13,000lbs. of sprung weight I had weighed before should increase pin weight by 350lb. I can now move stuff out of the front compartments that I took out of the garage floor storage and re-install my 2nd spare tire in the rear carrier to balance everything back out. It will also make my fuel tanks usable once again without overloading the axles and getting that slight tail wagging feel in the wind.

Highest scale weights to date were:
Steer 5560
Drive 8400
Hitch 3,000
Axle 1 7100
Axle 2 7050
Total 28550

Est 10 gals fresh water
Grey tanks empty
Fuel tanks empty
Est. 30 gals black water

We had burned 80 gals of fuel that was in the truck on the way up, full fresh tank, and had both my Canam Maverick and KTM ATV in the garage..... Approaching 30K for sure.......on a broken third gear that I was unaware of at the time......
 

porthole

Retired
Well you are still in the lead for the ultimate Cyclone modification. Nice work.

Your comment of tail wagging, the only folks who seem to mention that with the Toy Haulers are those with the the Titanium models. Makes me wonder if the nose design affects the tail?
 

readytohitheroad

Well-known member
We have been looking at toyhaulers and are limiting ourselves to the ones with three axles. Just seems to make sense although it means a much larger trailer than we desire.
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Well you are still in the lead for the ultimate Cyclone modification. Nice work.

Your comment of tail wagging, the only folks who seem to mention that with the Toy Haulers are those with the the Titanium models. Makes me wonder if the nose design affects the tail?

Thanks Duane! I think you have more mods than I do though.......:cool: It's definitely an addiction.

I wonder what the wheelbase difference is between your rig and mine? I assumed the Ti trailers have a little shorter base to help lighten the hitch weight and that is why the more responsive/negative handling? In the wind, having that nose is just leverage in front of the hitch and will always be negative.

Everything is a trade off and the factory probably got int right for the target market.....guy like us just really test the design.
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
We have been looking at toyhaulers and are limiting ourselves to the ones with three axles. Just seems to make sense although it means a much larger trailer than we desire.

I guess it really depends on what you plan to haul in the garage, factory options, and add to the vehicle. I went for dual panes, aux fuel cell, 550 lbs of batteries, 300 lb of solar panels, two spares, haul a 1750 lb SXS, and solely boondock..... I only have a single A/C and no Level Up, so that helps a tad.

If you will stay in parks where you won't need that kind of battery capacity, haul minimal water on the road, and a couple of lighter ATV's/Motorcycles, a tandem 7K axle group will be fine.....just opt for the G rated tires.

I didn't want the triple axle to start with.......More tires, bearings, brakes, and springs to wear out and maintain. It also screams Class A driver's license in most states at just a glance. The tandem kind of falls in under the radar unless you have a LEO who really knows the law and inspects your GVW stickers.

One up and coming manufacturer is offering a 43'er with a pair of 8K axles and 17.5" tires......Wonder what it will tow like loaded up to the max? After having a tandem and now the SAME rig as a triple, I would never consider that unit.

If you are considering one of the smaller Cyclones like the 2812, special order it with the 7K axles/brakes/springs and G614's. The 3010 and 3100 should be fine as is with G614's. The 3110 screams a big no! Needs to be a triple for sure!!! The 300C is adequate for most users but puts much more weight on the truck, so it can possibly get away with tandem unless you load it up like I do.....A heavy SXS in the garage will be the game changer. Our 1,000lb RZR 800S was fine, but my new CanAm weighs 1,750lb.+ loaded up......BIG difference! Add gas in the tanks....horrible!
 
I guess it really depends on what you plan to haul in the garage, factory options, and add to the vehicle. I went for dual panes, aux fuel cell, 550 lbs of batteries, 300 lb of solar panels, two spares, haul a 1750 lb SXS, and solely boondock..... I only have a single A/C and no Level Up, so that helps a tad.

If you will stay in parks where you won't need that kind of battery capacity, haul minimal water on the road, and a couple of lighter ATV's/Motorcycles, a tandem 7K axle group will be fine.....just opt for the G rated tires.

I didn't want the triple axle to start with.......More tires, bearings, brakes, and springs to wear out and maintain. It also screams Class A driver's license in most states at just a glance. The tandem kind of falls in under the radar unless you have a LEO who really knows the law and inspects your GVW stickers.

One up and coming manufacturer is offering a 43'er with a pair of 8K axles and 17.5" tires......Wonder what it will tow like loaded up to the max? After having a tandem and now the SAME rig as a triple, I would never consider that unit.

If you are considering one of the smaller Cyclones like the 2812, special order it with the 7K axles/brakes/springs and G614's. The 3010 and 3100 should be fine as is with G614's. The 3110 screams a big no! Needs to be a triple for sure!!! The 300C is adequate for most users but puts much more weight on the truck, so it can possibly get away with tandem unless you load it up like I do.....A heavy SXS in the garage will be the game changer. Our 1,000lb RZR 800S was fine, but my new CanAm weighs 1,750lb.+ loaded up......BIG difference! Add gas in the tanks....horrible!

I have a Gearbox, tandem axle and wasnt happy with the Cheesy Dexter 7k axles and my experience with broken springs. Long story short, I bought two new air ride axles with hydraulic disk brakes frm these guys. No more weird tire wear, brakes work well, and the trailer tracks better behind the truck.

http://timbren.com/sti-air-ride/
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
I have a Gearbox, tandem axle and wasnt happy with the Cheesy Dexter 7k axles and my experience with broken springs. Long story short, I bought two new air ride axles with hydraulic disk brakes frm these guys. No more weird tire wear, brakes work well, and the trailer tracks better behind the truck.

http://timbren.com/sti-air-ride/

For the record, I don't see anything cheesy about a Dexter 7K axle. If it's overloaded of loaded at 100% for it's entire life.....What would be an acceptable life expectancy of a component? I feel 75-80% of max load is a good point. Leave the rest for intermittent and shock loading whenever possible.

That STI would ride nice, but I would never trust my trailer to ride on air bags for the kind of travel I do. Too much sharp stuff flying around under there for that low hanging bag. Timbren makes some quality part.

Never broken a spring in my 20 years of pulling trailers....just lucky I guess? I have always been a firm believer in properly installed shocks valved for a particular load and that minimizes shock loading of leaf springs. Hydraulic disk was on my list of upgrades, but with the addition of two more self adjusting brakes, I just didn't see the need for my build.
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Just made it home from the first trip out since this mod....

I was nice to have the ability to relax on the road. Strait line tracking made the truck feel much more stable while cornering.....I was able to pull up the hill to our spot at the posted speed limit with confidence.

Stopping power is noticeably better, but brakes are still in the bed in period, so I expect them to get better in the next couple hundred miles. Looking forward to turning the brake controller gain down a bit more to make the slow speed stops a little smoother.

We never really had a chucking issue before unless the garage and water was empty, but we did get a fair amount of porpoising. The ride has been improved by at least 50%. I can see my dog's head isn't bobbing around like it used to.

All of these things were an expected result from increased wheelbase, added tires, and brakes. It's just nice to see a plan come together!:cool:
 

CrazyCooter

Well-known member
I had left the axle tracking cams in the neutral position figuring on checking/setting it up after everything settled in. I knew the original hangers were welded 3/8" too far forward on the right frame rail, so made that adjustment before welding the right side up.

At first, I was pleased to find that I only needed to adjust the right center axle. It was only off 3/16"! Now why can't that be done at time of manufacture? Then I was irritated about the 6 weeks of delay and expense of trying to acquire the Correct Track hangers that I really didn't need.

I could have done that with a portapower.....we don't need no stinkin expensive adjusters!:cool:
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Great job. I am surprised that you knocked it out so quickly.

One thing, I am surprised that you did not build a frame and then retro fit that to the chassis. Rather then building two separate rails with the hangers attached. I can not tell from the pictures but do you still have the cross members going across?

Also, how much clearance do you between your tire and the slide out support? After seeing this i am considering this option.


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CrazyCooter

Well-known member
Hey Matt! I was wondering how long it was putting a take you to popp in here.....

I did build a whole sub frame, but had to install it in parts around the plumbing. It was also much easier for my wife and I to handle. The side rails alone weighed almost 100lb each. Nothing had to be relocated...propane and second gray tank pipes still fit.

The slide support clearance came out about 5" and that axle swings away from it under load. I may install a bump stop to limit travel for that wheel to 4" just for safety. This is with 3" of lift over stock though..... I would have been OK with just 2" of up travel and 2" lift, but I could only get a 4.25" hanger as Lippert told me the 3.25" had been discontinued.

For the guy who loves his 300C and will be putting a full sized UTV with lots of accessories, this is a must do mod!
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
This is what I carry in mind. There is only a few inches left in that garage. Just to much weight behind the trailer axles. I keep the water tank full to help offset it. Honestly, the trailer axles pushed back 30" I think it would be fine. But it would require 8k Axles as well with the Load H tires.

How tall are your tires. As I think my 17.5 are 29". Fairly short tire.

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