Inverter Selection

I am trying to decide between the Magnum MS2000 plus PI Surge Protector OR a Xantrex SW2012 and Intelligent Power Manager. From those of you that know, is this an apples to apples comparison? I've read a bit about Xantrex having customer service issues. Is this reason alone to steer clear? It looks like the Xantrex setup would be a little cheaper. I realize I'll need a control panel for either setup, but the are within a few bucks of each other. I appreciate your thoughts on these systems.

My intention is to have a decent size battery bank and generator. I am mostly planning to run the Microwave and a Keurig, with nominal late night TV watching. Solar will come later, but for now I intend to let the genny handle battery charging.

At the rv show this weekend, I saw lots of Magnum inverters being used.


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Alex, I have not owned either up to this point. I have done some research on the subject since I have added battery capacity to my rig (4 x 6V), and have read the same as you about Xantrex supposedly bad customer service. apparently there was a buyout a few years ago. I have zeroed in on Magnum or Outback to replace my "el cheapo" that only runs the wine fridge, now. It seems like Magnum dominates the Class A motorhome market, some having 2 inverters. Outback Power is a few $$ higher than Magnum. I'm just waiting for the "fun money budget" to replenish. Too many capital improvement projects last year.

I know what both of you mean. The Magnum seems to be the most popular choice by far. The Magnum seems like the better choice, coupled with the Progressive Industries unit. Luckily I'm having my taxes done soon, so the fun money fund might see a little sunshine.

I was intrigued a little by the separate Power Manager from Xantrex, though. It looks like it did a little more than surge protection. I'm just not sure if that is clever marketing, or not.

I think the Xantrex Intelligent Power Manager is very intriguing and sophisticated. I'm trying to figure out how much more it does than the new Magnum Hybrid MSH-M Series. I know it has the capability to shed loads and it virtually replaces the breaker panel.

Introducing the new Mobile models of the HYBRID inverter/chargers. Based on the popular MS Series pure sine wave inverter/charger, the new MSH-M models add a "Load Support" feature. Load Support allows incoming AC to synchronize with the inverter's output and uses additional power from the batteries to power loads. A 4000 watt generator combined with a 4000 watt inverter could run a single 8000 watt AC load.

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scottyb said:

I think the Xantrex Intelligent Power Manager is very intriguing and sophisticated. I'm trying to figure out how much more it does than the new Magnum Hybrid MSH-M Series. I know it has the capability to shed loads and it virtually replaces the breaker panel.

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So looking at the MSH-M, if I think I'm reading it correctly, you may be able to run all three ACs off of generator power. If you battery bank was up to the task, the combining of the loads might handle all three AC startup demands. Combined with rewiring the AC cutoff switch, this may be the ticket to boondocking in hotter temps. However, it's about $700 more than the comparable non-hybrid.

Here is a system I ran across that's installed in some SOB TH's and says it compliments the Magnum Inverter...

http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/Documents/PDF Documents/0010020000PowerControlBrochure080507.pdf

My money would be on the Magnum.

How do you panel on wiring it? Using a sub panel?

I have a Heart Interface 2500 similar to the Magnum, also a 1 in 1 out.

Lots to think about. But since you are looking at the high end, you have even more options.

What you may save in a 1 in 1 out inverter you will end up offsetting by potentially having to install sub panels.

And inverters are not 100% efficient, and the efficiency drops a bit once they get hot.
The Magnums are rated at 89% efficiency.
So if your battery bank is up to the task you will get about 1800 watts out of your 2K unit. Is that enough?


The Magnum series you are looking at work well with genny's too.

porthole said:

My money would be on the Magnum.

How do you panel on wiring it? Using a sub panel?

I have a Heart Interface 2500 similar to the Magnum, also a 1 in 1 out.

Lots to think about. But since you are looking at the high end, you have even more options.

What you may save in a 1 in 1 out inverter you will end up offsetting by potentially having to install sub panels.

And inverters are not 100% efficient, and the efficiency drops a bit once they get hot.
The Magnums are rated at 89% efficiency.
So if your battery bank is up to the task you will get about 1800 watts out of your 2K unit. Is that enough?


The Magnum series you are looking at work well with genny's too.

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Duane my thoughts are to run a sub panel with all the circuits I want to power. I gave some thought to running the whole coach off the inverter but I'd rather exclude the circuits I don't want powered off the batteries. I think it will be less technical for my wife to no be able to run the ac rather than trying to explain why she can but shouldn't.

I think much of it will boil down to how easy see the wires to relocate to a sub. If it's a bear I may take the easy way out.

Without measuring my needs I can predict 2000 watts will work. The mw will be the largest load with most leads coming from modern av equipment. We won't be full timing and I'll only need to get by during quiet hours.

I think after the input I'm leaning toward the Magnum more and more.

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I have a Xantrex, it works. I can watch TV in the evening, run a small fan all night and heat up a cup of coffee microwave in the morning. I will say that the microwave won't do much more than heat a cup of coffee off the inverter.

I do have to reduce the charging input on the inverter by half when I run the AC with the generator. A 3000 watt generator can only produce so much power.

My system works. But, if I did it all again, I would go with a smaller inverter and run the microwave off of shore or gen power only.

Good luck with which ever system you choose.

I'm trying to decide what are the advantages of a Hybrid with a 1 in 1 out configuration. If I'm correct, only 1/2 of the coach going to be connected to the leg going through the inverter. Do you move 1 of the AC's to the sub panel? In what scenarios would it be beneficial to have the hybrid? It gets a little cloudy. I suppose if you were connected to 30A service and needed to run 2 AC's, the inverter could load assist the 1 AC but not the other. Any thoughts?

scottyb said:

I'm trying to decide what are the advantages of a Hybrid with a 1 in 1 out configuration. If I'm correct, only 1/2 of the coach going to be connected to the leg going through the inverter. Do you move 1 of the AC's to the sub panel? In what scenarios would it be beneficial to have the hybrid? It gets a little cloudy. I suppose if you were connected to 30A service and needed to run 2 AC's, the inverter could load assist the 1 AC but not the other. Any thoughts?

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If I were to run the hybrid I would more than likely not use a sub panel and just power the whole coach. That way I wouldn't have to decide which AC would work.

The kicker for me is knowing the 2000 is probably overkill for my needs. Do I really want to spend more money for a super overkill solution?

I was talking to a Xantrex salesman in Quartzsite last month and he said they are coming out with a model that you can control/monitor from your smart phone. He said it should be out within a year. I thought that would be an interesting option.

alex00 said:

If I were to run the hybrid I would more than likely not use a sub panel and just power the whole coach. That way I wouldn't have to decide which AC would work.

The kicker for me is knowing the 2000 is probably overkill for my needs. Do I really want to spend more money for a super overkill solution?

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The problem is that it only has 1 HOT IN and 1 HOT OUT, so you can't power both legs of service in the panel with a single inverter. See the diagram on PAGE 22 . The conventional means is to come off the panel with a single pole breaker to power the inverter and move everything you want it to power into a sub panel. That's why I was asking what are the practical advantages of having the hybrid vs the MS Series. I can't see where it would really be that big of an advantage on a 50A coach.

scottyb said:

The problem is that it only has 1 HOT IN and 1 HOT OUT, so you can't power both legs of service in the panel with a single inverter. See the diagram on PAGE 22 . The conventional means is to come off the panel with a single pole breaker to power the inverter and move everything you want it to power into a sub panel. That's why I was asking what are the practical advantages of having the hybrid vs the MS Series. I can't see where it would really be that big of an advantage on a 50A coach.

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I wasn't even thinking in those terms. I'm not used to the two hots coming in on the 50amp. So, I suppose it would still work to assist the generator run all three ACs but you would need to put at least one of the ACs on the sub. For our rigs with 5k generators, it seems like the only advantage would be to run all three ACs off the generator.

The system that Horned Frog mentioned looks pretty cool. Here's a little more information. Since they are spec'd to work with Magnum inverters, I wonder if it will integrate with the MSH Series. I also found a photo on another RV site of one in use that shows how the main panel and sub panel are wired.

P.S. Just noticed in the owner's manual that inverter assist as well as power shedding is part of the PCS so it doesn't require the MSH Series.

HornedToad said:

Here is a system I ran across that's installed in some SOB TH's and says it compliments the Magnum Inverter...

http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/Documents/PDF Documents/0010020000PowerControlBrochure080507.pdf

Click to expand...

scottyb said:

The system that Horned Frog mentioned looks pretty cool. Here's a little more information. Since they are spec'd to work with Magnum inverters, I wonder if it will integrate with the MSH Series. I also found a photo on another RV site of one in use that shows how the main panel and sub panel are wired.

P.S. Just noticed in the owner's manual that inverter assist as well as power shedding is part of the PCS so it doesn't require the MSH Series.

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I think I missed this when Mike first posted it. That looks like all the benefits of the Hybrid, but the functionality to run dual in - dual out, if you choose. Thanks for pointing it out.

scottyb said:

Alex, I have not owned either up to this point. I have done some research on the subject since I have added battery capacity to my rig (4 x 6V), and have read the same as you about Xantrex supposedly bad customer service. apparently there was a buyout a few years ago. I have zeroed in on Magnum or Outback to replace my "el cheapo" that only runs the wine fridge, now. It seems like Magnum dominates the Class A motorhome market, some having 2 inverters. Outback Power is a few $$ higher than Magnum. I'm just waiting for the "fun money budget" to replenish. Too many capital improvement projects last year.

Click to expand...

porthole said:

My money would be on the Magnum.

How do you panel on wiring it? Using a sub panel?

I have a Heart Interface 2500 similar to the Magnum, also a 1 in 1 out.

Lots to think about. But since you are looking at the high end, you have even more options.

What you may save in a 1 in 1 out inverter you will end up offsetting by potentially having to install sub panels.

And inverters are not 100% efficient, and the efficiency drops a bit once they get hot.
The Magnums are rated at 89% efficiency.
So if your battery bank is up to the task you will get about 1800 watts out of your 2K unit. Is that enough?


The Magnum series you are looking at work well with genny's too.

Click to expand...

Ok, so here is where the plan sits now. After a ton of research I'm going to jump head first and do solar and the inverter all at once. I'm going with the Magnum 2012, and remote. I'll use the TriMetric 2030 Controller (PWM) and Monitor. I'm thinking 3 Kyocera 130-140 Watt 12V panels, for 390 to 420 total. I'll wire the panels in parallel on the roof with 8AWG to a combiner and run 4AWG to the basement. I plan to airtight seal the 4 6V batteries in a box, and mount the charge controller and inverter in the batt/generator compartment, (unless that's a horrible idea, then they go on the other side of the wall in the basement.) 4AWG cable from the charge controller to the batteries, and 4/0 cable connecting the batteries to each other and the inverter. The inverter will be fed from the main by a dual 30 amp breaker. I will run 10/3 to a new sub panel and balance the microwave and bedroom outlets on one 30 amp side, and two 15 amp circuits for the remaining outlets on the other side. I'll be adding a 300 amp catastrophic fuse to the battery, and appropriate fuses and switchers to the wire runs.

I have come off the MPPT solar controller idea since the gains likely realized (10%-ish) are too small on a 400 watt solar array. It limits me to 12V panels, but the cost of three 12V panels plus PWM controller is within a few dollars of 2 larger panels and an MPPT controller.

I'm open to suggestions or comments to steer me in the right direction. Again, I am looking to run the microwave and Keurig (not at the same time) and be able to watch all the TVs at the same time without running a generator. Thanks for everyone's input. I feel like I'm getting a pretty decent handle on all this stuff.

I would strongly recommend a Class T - high arc interrupt fuse on the DC side. Also I would recommend a 2/0 DC wire (tinned stranded, marine grade is good) with compression fittings from marinco..... Use a thick walled heat shrink tubing to make a clean install and prevent future corrosion.

I re-used the ANC breakers from my AC panel in the new sub panel. I installed a dual 30A to feed my 3000W Xantrex with sub panel powering micro (20A), bedroom plugs (15A), slide plugs (15A), and GFCI plugs (15A). Link to my install.

Hope this helps.
Brian

Brian

brianharrison said:

I would strongly recommend a Class T - high arc interrupt fuse on the DC side. Also I would recommend a 2/0 DC wire (tinned stranded, marine grade is good) with compression fittings from marinco..... Use a thick walled heat shrink tubing to make a clean install and prevent future corrosion.


I re-used the ANC breakers from my AC panel in the new sub panel. I installed a dual 30A to feed my 3000W Xantrex with sub panel powering micro (20A), bedroom plugs (15A), slide plugs (15A), and GFCI plugs (15A). Link to my install.



Hope this helps.
Brian

Brian

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2/0 instead of 4/0? I didn't know what it was called, but the class T was what I was thinking of.

I've read over your install page. It was very helpful. When you reused the breakers, what did you use to cover or fill the holes in the main left by the missing breakers? Your inverter install is what I am shooting for. Thank you!