My truck-and-5'er combo is right at the limit on pin weight ... safety issue?

ttondro · Mar 7, 2014

Reading all these posts about payload limits and pin weight, I'm wondering how my proposed setup will handle. I'm new to towing and I'm trying to get the right truck-and-5'er combo.

I just bought a 2012 F-250 supercab long bed 4x4, 6.7L diesel with exhaust brakes. I've ordered a Sundance 3000MK, don’t have it yet.

Tow rating: 5'er loaded for a trip will weigh (we estimate) about 70%-75% of the truck's tow rating. Excellent.

GCWR: Combined weight, loaded for a trip, will be about 87%-95% of the truck's GCWR. Not great, but OK.

Truck GVWR/payload limit: It's the truck payload that's the issue. The door jamb sticker says the payload limit is 2438 lbs. With me and the wife, the weight of the hitch itself, and the pin weight of the 3000MK (which is spec’d at 1925 lbs, about 17% of the weight of the 5'er loaded for a trip) and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE in the truck, the payload will be about 2485 lbs. (I’ve weighed the truck at a scale, so I’m sure of most of these numbers, just have to rely on Heartland for the actual pin weight.)

That’s just 2% over the door sticker. Not terrible, but not very good either. When we get the 5'er and load it, the pin weight may go up. (In fact, it probably should go up, in order to get to the 20% or 25% of 5'er weight that I see people recommend for better truck handling.)

Is this gonna be a safety issue? I read that stopping and cross-winds are the issues when you’re right at the rated limits of the truck. I’ve got exhaust brakes and a sway bar, and I can add spring helpers, but I’m wondering if those are just band-aids: they don’t change the payload limit.

jimtoo · Mar 7, 2014

Hi Tracy Tondro,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge when needed.

You will get lots of opinions here I am sure. You see all kinds of things on the highways,,, some dangerous,,,some maybe overloaded,, but OK... some overkill with monster tractor and some that are just right. You will probably be close to limits,, maybe a little over,,, the ultimate decision is yours.

Enjoy the forum.

Jim M

cookie · Mar 8, 2014

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
Rather than extra springs I would go with air bags. Just my personal preference.
Maintain your max tire pressures.

Peace
Dave

JohnDar · Mar 8, 2014

Don't be surprised if the actual pin weight after you load your "stuff" is a few hundred pounds more than the sticker says. Sticker in my BH says 2215. Actual is 2950.

danemayer · Mar 8, 2014

Hi ttondro,

The Sundance has a GVWR of 13,800. If you have a bunch of options and fully load it, you could have a pin weight of a bit over 2,700, using 20% as a planning number. But depending on how you're loaded, the number could also be lower. You can be sure it's going to be more than the spec of 1925, because that's before options or anything else is added.

Matching truck/trailer is a frequently recurring discussion on the forum and responses fall into 2 groups. One group goes strictly by the numbers. Using this approach, you'll likely be overloaded a bit.

The other group goes by experience. Using this approach, you'll be in good company because there are many owners towing 5th wheels with 3/4 ton trucks. In fact, there are quite a few owners towing larger trailers (16,000 GVWR) who report they have no problems. Your payload will probably be 500-600 pounds less than what some others are carrying.

MTPockets · Mar 8, 2014

I agree with Dan.... I'm one that goes by the actual numbers. When we weighed with our SRW and found out we were 600 lbs over the truck payload door tag, we bought the DRW. I will say that towing one season for over 6 months with the SRW, I never felt a problem, but that nagging fact of overload pushed me to the Higher capacity truck.

TedS · Mar 8, 2014

Air bags will not change your payload capacity.
I pulled ok at 1200 lbs. over payload capacity, but didn't feel comfortable doing it. Changed from 3/4ton to 1-ton.

jdamude · Mar 8, 2014

We just went through the same scenario. We have a Sundance 2900mk that we pulled with our 2014 F250 with the 6.2 gas engine. Combination was great. In the fall we purchased a BC 3650RL. We installed Air Springs in the truck for stability. When we picked the trailer up at the dealer (approximately 4 hours away), I had to put 60lbs of air in the bags to adjust the ride height. The trip home went well although I knew we were pulling some weight.

Over the winter after reading all the forums and having the past experience of rolling a truck and trailer, we decided to upgrade to a 2014 F450. We pick the truck up on Tuesday.

My wife is now a happy camper and my son took over the f250 and the Sundance.

ttondro · Mar 8, 2014

Once we get the 3000MK and camp a few days in it, our next stop is going to be a scales to get some real-world weights on the thing. Then we drive home over the Tejon pass north of L.A.--that will tell me how well it handles the steep grades.

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. This gives me some idea of how to think about the issue (safety and cost) of trading up truck-wise.

westxsrt10 · Mar 8, 2014

Hitch it up and see how it sits.
I'm betting you will want air bags to level it out and reduce sway. Air bags helped my F-250 overall and I towed Ultra-lite Sundance 287 (1240# oem pin weight ended up being 1550#)

readytohitheroad · Mar 8, 2014

There is a reason why all vehicles have established towing and payload capacities. I personally would not tow a single mile if I was exceeding the established safety measures. I could not imagine how I would feel if I was the cause of an accident due to exceeding these established safety limits. But that is just me... I would also be very concerned as to my personal liability if I caused an accident and it was established that I was over weight. This would then mean my insurance might not cover me and I would then be personally be responsible for all damages. Scary thought.

DocFather · Mar 8, 2014

readytohitheroad said:
there is a reason why all vehicles have established towing and payload capacities. I personally would not tow a single mile if i was exceeding the established safety measures. I could not imagine how i would feel if i was the cause of an accident due to exceeding these established safety limits. But that is just me... I would also be very concerned as to my personal liability if i caused an accident and it was established that i was over weight. This would then mean my insurance might not cover me and i would then be personally be responsible for all damages. Scary thought.

ditto!

Birchwood · Mar 8, 2014

To be on the safe side I would use the max GVWR of your Sundance and multiply by 20%.I think the value would be 2760 lb and that weight will be on the pin.Add this value to the weight of your truck and the amount should not exceed the GVWR stamped on the door sill of your truck.

MTPockets · Mar 8, 2014

Birchwood said:
To be on the safe side I would use the max GVWR of your Sundance and multiply by 20%.I think the value would be 2760 lb and that weight will be on the pin.Add this value to the weight of your truck and the amount should not exceed the GVWR stamped on the door sill of your truck.

His truck payload limit is 2438; that makes anything else a mute point.

Shocker1 · Mar 9, 2014

OP, just wondering why you chose an F250 instead of an F350SRW? So many people don't realize F350's (and 3500 models from GM and Ram) come in a single rear wheel configuration. The F350srw with the 11,000lb payload package has a 4,220lb payload rating whereas an F250 has a maximum payload rating of 3,140lbs. These figures are for longbed 4x4's. Anyone looking to pull a fifth wheel should be looking at 1 ton SRW trucks and up. F250's/2500's are merely de-rated F350/3500's. I've even heard some people say that F250's get better fuel mileage which makes no sense. Even if you are looking at a small fiver with a sub 2000lb pin weight you should still go with a 1 ton because who wants to buy a new truck every time you upgrade to a bigger trailer.
If upgrading to a 1 ton is not an option you should, at minimum, install airbags and keep an eye on your rear tire pressure.

Seren · Mar 10, 2014

I bought a 2011 Denali 2500 srw diesel a few weeks ago to pull a LM Grand Canyon that we will be picking up on the 24th (the dealer said that the truck would handle the RV). But after reading the responses to my post, I quickly learned that this combo was not going to work. I went back to the dealer and spent the better part of last Saturday negotiating with the dealership and now have a 2014 Denali 3500 srw diesel and feel a whole lot more confident in it handling the Grand Canyon. Will be getting the B&W Companion installed at RVs For Less.

This forum is more than invaluable for all of us newbies, domo arigato (thank you in Japanese).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

scottyb · Mar 11, 2014

Seren said:
I bought a 2011 Denali 2500 srw diesel a few weeks ago to pull a LM Grand Canyon that we will be picking up on the 24th (the dealer said that the truck would handle the RV). But after reading the responses to my post, I quickly learned that this combo was not going to work. I went back to the dealer and spent the better part of last Saturday negotiating with the dealership and now have a 2014 Denali 3500 srw diesel and feel a whole lot more confident in it handling the Grand Canyon. Will be getting the B&W Companion installed at RVs For Less.

This forum is more than invaluable for all of us newbies, domo arigato (thank you in Japanese).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Good move. I hope it didn't cost you much. Was it the truck dealer or the RV dealer that misinformed you?

cavlino · Mar 11, 2014

Shocker1 said:
OP, just wondering why you chose an F250 instead of an F350SRW? So many people don't realize F350's (and 3500 models from GM and Ram) come in a single rear wheel configuration. The F350srw with the 11,000lb payload package has a 4,220lb payload rating whereas an F250 has a maximum payload rating of 3,140lbs. These figures are for longbed 4x4's. Anyone looking to pull a fifth wheel should be looking at 1 ton SRW trucks and up. F250's/2500's are merely de-rated F350/3500's. I've even heard some people say that F250's get better fuel mileage which makes no sense. Even if you are looking at a small fiver with a sub 2000lb pin weight you should still go with a 1 ton because who wants to buy a new truck every time you upgrade to a bigger trailer.
If upgrading to a 1 ton is not an option you should, at minimum, install airbags and keep an eye on your rear tire pressure.

I was wondering the same, minimum truck is a 350 SRW, a 350 DRW even safer and means you won't have to upgrade your truck when not if you upgrade your trailer.

cavlino · Mar 11, 2014

readytohitheroad said:
There is a reason why all vehicles have established towing and payload capacities. I personally would not tow a single mile if I was exceeding the established safety measures. I could not imagine how I would feel if I was the cause of an accident due to exceeding these established safety limits. But that is just me... I would also be very concerned as to my personal liability if I caused an accident and it was established that I was over weight. This would then mean my insurance might not cover me and I would then be personally be responsible for all damages. Scary thought.

Very well said and my approach also.

Seren · Mar 12, 2014

scottyb said:
Good move. I hope it didn't cost you much. Was it the truck dealer or the RV dealer that misinformed you?

Truck dealer. Went there just to get info, but they had someone come that afternoon to trade in the 2011, which he used to pull an RV. He traded down, becauce his wife was diagnosed with cancer. Since it only had 27,000, was a Denali the dealer, and that it was used and set-up for towing she convinced me that it was a perfect truck. She even called the Camping World at Dothan (went there the previous week to look at a Key Largo). And they told her that it was enough truck. She said that since tne truck had low milage she said tnat the truck would probably sell within a day or so. My mistake, but I told her the GVWR of the RV (16,250). Soooo....

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My truck-and-5'er combo is right at the limit on pin weight ... safety issue?

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