Forum Understanding and Clarity

As a relative new member to HOG, i am a little confused on the operation of this website and would like someone of authority to clear up some points for me. I saw a comment on another thread that puzzled me, sorry to bore those of seniority here.

Does an employee of Heartland monitor anything on this site?

Is Jim Beletti an employee of HL? What is his role here?

is the purpose of this site to info prospective purchasers the ins and outs of HL product?

Is also a purposed to assist new buyers to understand what they have behind them?

is this site for technical help, assistance of owners?

Does HL get any ideas off this site of what owner are looking for or what they dislike?

if this isn't the right forum for asking these things, please feel free to correct, change, delete, etc..

i have posted a couple things that some people have been offended by (my apology) as well have read some surprising things by others. This site was a deciding factor for us to purchase HL and maybe we just saw the good in everyone for that couple months, not sure. I have reservations at this point about buy another HL replacement in a few years, jury is still out.

i just need to understand the venting, is it just among the owners or is it feed back to HL? Sorry for the ramble!

Some answers by clicking on Owners Club tab above.

As a relative new member to HOG, i am a little confused on the operation of this website and would like someone of authority to clear up some points for me.

I don't know how much authority you are looking for, but I will try and answer your questions.


Does an employee of Heartland monitor anything on this site?

Some employees of Heartland do monitor some forums. I don't know which ones but there are some.

Is Jim Beletti an employee of HL? What is his role here?

Yes, Jim Beletti is an employee of HL. His title is Director of Owners Interest.
Jim and a friend started this forum as two owners wanting to connect with and help other owners. He later became an employee.

is the purpose of this site to info prospective purchasers the ins and outs of HL product?

This is one of the purposes, although it started out as a useful tool for discussion by owners. There is a Prospective Owners Forum.

Is also a purposed to assist new buyers to understand what they have behind them?

Behind them? As in support? Most here are willing to help a person in any way we can.

is this site for technical help, assistance of owners?

Yes, we all try to assist. Many owners are proactive in maintaining and repairing their rigs. Experience goes a long way.

Does HL get any ideas of this site that owner are looking for or what they dislike?

Yes, there are sub forums. One being Ask the Factory and the other Design Ideas.
Each in their own specific product line. Landmark, Bighorn, North Trail etc.

Peace
Dave

Gary,

Jim Beletti started this website and the owners club as an early Heartland owner. As things developed, he became a Heartland employee, "Director of Customer Interests." He's also the president of the owners club and personally manages the annual North American Heartland Rally. He also oversees the operations of the club, which is staffed by one part-time employee (Julie) and a bunch of volunteers. Apart from Jim and Julie, all the rallies and other social activities are managed by volunteers.

Some years ago Jim transferred ownership of the forum to Heartland although it continues to be managed by Jim with the help of a group of volunteer moderators - I'm one of them.

The forum serves multiple purposes.

It's a great place to get help when you don't know how something works, or need advice on a repair or modification. One of my first interactions on the forum was to find out the location of the power converter which had stopped working on our first trip (turned out the plug vibrated out of the outlet). It's pretty handy to be able to get answers in a matter of minutes when you're in the middle of a crisis after regular business hours. We also have a huge collection of manufacturer manuals in the manuals section of the forum, which comes in handy when you can't find the ones that came with your coach. There are also owner-written user guides and troubleshooting guides that provide detailed information with photos, diagrams and diagnostic flowcharts. These can be pretty useful when you need the longer and more detailed answer.

The forum is also a hub for social activity. Chapter Leaders post threads announcing upcoming rallies and other meetings. Owners post to those threads to let one another know they'll be coming. They often arrange golf outings and plan potluck dinners on the forum.

Heartland employees, mostly the brand general managers, do follow selected areas of the forum, but their job duties don't allow them to read every post. Sometimes they're able to respond directly on the forum. Occasionally they'll forward information to another Heartland employee for action. The general managers use information and discussions on the forum as customer feedback and it helps them shape future product decisions.

Many prospective owners find the forum to be useful in understanding their options and to get advice on their upcoming purchase.

Moderators try to maintain a friendly and safe environment where owners can have honest and frank discussions. Yes sometimes people vent on the forum. Heartland is ok with that. In fact, Heartland doesn't micro-manage the forum at all.

All forums have rules and this one is no exception. Sometimes people go out of bounds and moderators step in to edit or occasionally delete a post. The most common reason for deleting a post is when the same information is posted in multiple places on the forum - and mostly that's an innocent mistake.

Hope this helps.

Good answer, Dave. I'll add that Jim B does kick some things to corporate and on occasion yanks a suppliers chain (or gets it yanked). But mainly it's an owners forum, supported by HL.

Gary and Lorraine,

Great questions! Thank you to all who have answered - the responses were all "spot on".

I understand what you are feeling. As some have mentioned, we will allow some venting. And I believe it's that venting that is building on you and is affecting how you feel about the forum and perhaps your coach and Heartland. It's understandable.

It is my hope that the latitude we afford product owners in voicing their thoughts, feelings and opinions here, is one ingredient that helps make this forum a credible resource to prospective owners and current owners alike.

Thank you for your trust in Heartland and in this community. Thank you for your contributions and your great questions.

Thank you all for your comments.

As a recap, most of my questions were answered as per my understanding of this site, i am not sure i fully understand the role Jim plays, it was my thought that maybe a regularly timed summary of the topics on the site made it back to the appropriate HL dept. managers. If this is not a pipeline to HL directly, then should our factory related issues be posted under the ask the factory tab? I feel it is important that they understand the frustrations and or excitement from customers about the line.

i don't want to be depressed about my new toy, i want to know that someone who has the authority to reach the managers knows the general issues and improves the product. I think I could speak for most owners, we want a good product, that we can enjoy, that continually improves from our suggestions, it helps as all.

As an ISO 9001 auditor and manager, I fully understand quality management systems and customer service. I am not a newbe to this game, just to this site.

Thanks again for your time

Gary (and all readers),

The forum is just another way to reach the factory, but not always the best way. Most times, it's best to just pick up the phone and call Heartland Customer Service (877-262-8032 or email at service@heartlandrvs.com) when you have an issue. If you have feedback that you want the brand GM to know about, they can be reached by contacting the main office (574-266-8726) and we just listed their email addresses and numbers in the last Heartland Highlights newsletter (LINK).

That said, some people prefer to post their issues, questions and concerns on a public forum. And this forum affords them that opportunity.

The brand GMs (formerly known as Brand Managers) receive an email notification each time a post is made in the following forums for their brand:
- Ask the Factory (ATF)
- Design Ideas
- Prospective Owners

Many of the questions posed in the ATF are technical in nature. Often times, the GMs are not equipped to respond. In most of those cases, they pass the post to Customer Service who reaches out to the OP (original poster) via PM, email or phone. And more often than not, retail product owners and forum moderators answer the questions.

For myself, as it relates to the forum:
- I guide the direction of the forum
- Appoint and train moderators
- Read as many posts as I'm able to
- Flag up to various departments at Heartland, posts that I feel they should be aware of

As Director of Owners Interests, I do my best to be an advocate for the retail customer in general. When I say "in general", I mean that I'm not really able to work "one-on-one" with retail customers on coach issues. There just isn't time to do this, I don't possess all the knowledge that takes and at the end of the day, I don't have authority at Heartland to compel the company to do this or that.

As I see an issue becoming a trend, I flag that up to whomever at corporate I feel needs to be aware of it (President, VP of Sales, Brand GM, Plant Manager, Customer Service etc.).

I'm on the road 200+ nights a year in a Heartland product, traveling North America, attending rallies and shows, trying to stay connected to our retail customer base. As such, I generally have a good feel for what the needs are of the typical RVer and I'm constantly relaying that back to corporate.

I believe that at some level, all RV manufacturer's do listen to their customers (directly, through reps and through dealers). From what I've come to understand based on feedback from our customers and from my nearly 10 year affiliation with Heartland RVs is that Heartland is better than most RV manufacturers at listening to their customers needs and concerns. Much innovation has come from listening and more is still to come.

At the end of the day, we produce RVs at various affordable price points with a dedicated, yet fallible, human workforce. This means we don't make perfect RVs. We make the very best RVs we can, at a price point retail consumers can afford.

Gary - much of this reply was not personally directed at you. You asked some great questions and I wanted to take the time to address them and maybe take a deeper dive for the benefit of all that read this thread.

And as long as it continues to not be RV.net, it will continue to be the best owners forum with factory support and minimal factory intervention.

Jim. Thanks for the detail. As a new user on this site, I greatly appreciate your time. I am learning a lot in preparation of taking delivery of our first Heartland product. (a new Sundance 3310MKS)

Jim and all members

Thank you for your input, i fully understand and have received all the answers and more from my questions.

Jim, i appreciate the clarity from your last response, we are excited to meet members over the next few years of travel.

We hope you all have a great day

Gary, let me see if I can explain J.B's roll in the forum now and then. Jim bought one of the 1st LM's HL ever built in 2004-05, I think. He and another fellow started the forum. Jim did not work for HL at that time. The forum was approved by HL but they did not run or own it. When Jim retired from his job, he and HL worked out a deal to sell the forum the HL. Jim and the moderators still run it for HL. I have been on the forum since 2006 and boy has it changed in 8 years.

Their are people at HL that do read the forum when they have time. However, HL does not have a paid employee that sits and reads it daily. The ATF area might be read by a brand manager if they have time. Asking a question on the forum will get any owner a faster response and more than likely the answer to your question. Remember they are busy helping design, built and keep the assembly line going. Any owner of a HL product, IMHO, should they have an issue that is not being resolved by their dealer, should call HL service directly with your VIN# in hand and discuss the issue. From that point if the issue still is not resolved you can make a call again and move it up the food chain.

Our coach did have a few issues and our dealer sucked at the repairs needed. I called HL and things were then resolved. BTW, that dealer no longer sells HL coaches (long story), Coley and JB know the story. Coley Brady (owner) and I have had several conversions over the years. He listens, cares about his customers and will talk to anyone, because he is a down to earth person.

Bottom line, HL builds as good coach as anyone. Will it have issues, probably, will HL stand behind their warranty...yes if it's something "they" built. Will they go to bat for you on the sub-assemblies that they installed....if they can. These rolling earthquakes will give us problems. But let me make this statement. I have never owned a sticks and bricks that did not need constant repairs....have you, and they do not go bouncing down these fine roads we have.

My story is short about this new $500K house we live in. For the 1st year we owned it...the downstairs was under water. 2 all new hardwood floors and 2 sets of lower cabinets and no kitchen to use. This was not ground water, it was plumbing in the walls, sewer lines plugged with concrete with waster water coming out of the toilets flooding the downstairs. Need I go on??

After that, anything that happened to the Horn was nothing.

I am not trying to get away from the intent of the original questions but now that the questions have been answered I wanted to state the following. I am a brand loyal customer. Once I find out that I bought a good product from a good company, I continue to business with that company. I a milling to pay extra for that piece of mind and for good customer service. I was loyal to SOB for 3 trailers and a number of years. We made up our mind to get a toy hauler which my SOB did not make. I was forced to find a new company to do business with. We saw the Road Warrior at a show and knew that we liked the floor plan and quality. What really sold me on Heartland was this forum and the quick answers that I got to the questions that I asked. I did not know the history of this site nor who owned it but it did make a big impression on me.

With that being said, I have only meet Jim once and I've only been to one rally, but I think that he does a bang up job.

porthole said:

And as long as it continues to not be RV.net, it will continue to be the best owners forum with factory support and minimal factory intervention.

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Thank you Duane. RV.net has over 500,000 users. It is a moderated forum, but there's a lot of polarity there at times. I believe some actionable data can be mined from it, but it's a big place

Majestic said:

Jim and all members

Thank you for your input, i fully understand and have received all the answers and more from my questions.

Jim, i appreciate the clarity from your last response, we are excited to meet members over the next few years of travel.

We hope you all have a great day

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Thanks Gary - I look forward to meeting you down the road. Safe travels to you and make some great memories with your Heartland RV.

Bob&Patty said:

Gary, let me see if I can explain J.B's roll in the forum now and then. Jim bought one of the 1st LM's HL ever built in 2004-05, I think. He and another fellow started the forum. Jim did not work for HL at that time. The forum was approved by HL but they did not run or own it. When Jim retired from his job, he and HL worked out a deal to sell the forum the HL. Jim and the moderators still run it for HL. I have been on the forum since 2006 and boy has it changed in 8 years....

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Bob - first, let me publicly thank you for your leadership of the SoCal chapter of the club, your support of the brand and the tremendous amount of assistance you render to product owners. You're an inspiration my friend and I really appreciate you and Patty.

Bummer about your new home (water damage).

You're pretty much right on with my Heartland story. I left a 30 year career in telecommunications to work full-time in the RV industry promoting the Heartland brand. As a condition of my employment, I transferred ownership of the forum to Heartland. Myself and the moderators run it day-to-day.

You're right - it really has grown since you joined. And we've reformatted it a few times. And we're (myself, mods and users) are still not satisfied with it. We need to keep reimagining the space so we can help users, especially the new ones, get the most out of it. As the volume of data grows each year, it becomes harder and harder for users to mine and use that data. So that's the struggle - to keep the the data easily findable and usable. And we are ALWAYS open to criticism on the forum structure. So long as the criticism is constructive, it's useful to us. So people - feel free to tell us what better looks like. We want to hear it. Help us make this forum an amazing resource to prospective owners and current owners alike.

OBX_Raineys said:

Jim. Thanks for the detail. As a new user on this site, I greatly appreciate your time. I am learning a lot in preparation of taking delivery of our first Heartland product. (a new Sundance 3310MKS)

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Glenn - I like your avatar, though it's been a while since I had a PBR

The new Sundance product is amazing! I really hope you, Tina and Sandy get a lot of enjoyment out of it. And please join the Heartland Owners Club, even if as a FREE introductory member so you can join us at the NC and other area rallies. Rallies are an amazing element that can add a lot of value to RV ownership. Looking forward to meeting you down the road and if offered, maybe sharing a PBR with you.

jbeletti said:

Thank you Duane. RV.net has over 500,000 users. It is a moderated forum, but there's a lot of polarity there at times. I believe some actionable data can be mined from it, but it's a big place

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RVnet is owned by Camping World/Good Sam. I had an issue with CW and Marcus the CEO personally cleared it up. It has a very varied audience as does this site. I've been in the Internet business for 15 years and know a good deal about forums. This forum and RVnet are very similar. The ratio of readers to posters is over 100 to 1. Most posters have a question or want to complain. That's fine. There's a lot to be learned from people complaining.

Some on the forum have the Heatland religion. They've drunk the Kool Aide. The simple fact is that the RV industry has a horrible quality record. Sadly, Heartland is no exception. I asked customer service if they ever delivered a trailer with no warranty work. The answer was "no". In my opinion, that's sad. I have a brand new Bighorn 3160. It represents the biggest single purchase I ever made. It's my second trailer. The first, a Kodiak, another Thor product (heartland is owned by Thor) was a quality disaster. My new trailer only has small, annoying problems. The kind of stuff that another $100 worth of inspector's time would prevent leaving the factory. I will say that my dealings to date with Heartland have been cordial and helpful. I like the people at customer service and the Bighorn brand manager has been amazing in providing information I need. I'm happy we bought the Bighorn. Would I recommend Heartland to a prospective buyer? The jury is out right now. I am still annoyed with the quality issues. Ask me next year.

You are right...the RV industry as a whole does have some QC issues! However, "drinking the koolaid" has nothing to do with why many of us are "loyal" to Heartland...

Many, like myself, have been RVing for many years, and have owned units by many manufacturers. Our experience with Heartland has been head and shoulders above the rest in how any QC issues are dealt with. I have friends who have spent many, many thousands more for New Horizon, DRV, Teton, etc., and they have had some much worse QC issues than we have had. In my mind, why spend an obscene amount of money for something that has the same, or in many cases, worse issues than my Heartland's have had...I would much rather spend my hard earned money where I KNOW the company is going to make certain any build issues are going to be taken care of, and they will be there when needed.

Many say we should stop purchasing RV's until the industry gets their act together, and maybe they will start putting out a "perfect" product....personally, I think as long as RVs are built by human hands, not robots, there will NEVER be a perfect product, and I for one am not ready to give up my RVing life to make a point! I would much rather stick with a company that has proved that they are there to take care of us when needed, even though they must stay competitive in a VERY competitive business....JMHO!!