60A Breakers

dcwettstein

Well-known member
Because I am a rooky at this and you all are so helpful so I am going to ask another question.

I am going to install a PV system on my 5er. According to Morningstar I should have a 60A

breaker on each side of the controller, I
am using a tristar 45 MPPT controller. This morning I went

to Home Depot to look for a single pole 60 amp breaker. The only breakers I could find were 60A

duel pole breakers.I was wondering if I took a duel pole breaker and removed the part that tied the

two switches together, would I then have two 60A single pole breakers?
If not, where can I get a

60A single pole breaker?
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Is the installation specifying 60amp 12V DC circuit breakers or 60amp 110V AC circuit breakers? If it's before the inverter, I would guess it's 12V DC breakers. I don't know if you'll find them at Home Depot. Might need to visit a Marine supply store.
 

dcwettstein

Well-known member
I was assuming that they were the same but now that you mentioned it I looked on line and they are definitely different. So I can not use a 120 amp breaker on a 12 Volt system?

so if I need a 12V 60A breaker what would be better? A auto or a manual reset?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

brianharrison

Well-known member
so if I need a 12V 60A breaker what would be better? A auto or a manual reset?

Your choice - I have seen both. Remember the breaker is to protect the wire, and the wire selection should follow the Tristar MPPT 45 controller installation recommendations. Here on page 64. It depends on your wire type, and length between controller and battery bank.

Brian
 

dave10a

Well-known member
I would think that people who are not familiar with electricity and regulations for proper installation, would consult a well qualified person to help with the design and installation. To offer advise on a forum such as this for those who lack that knowledge is not helpful IMHO
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
The answer is no......you might be able to to find a DC bus fuse, but you must remember 60 amps at 120 V is is much different than 60 amps at 12V. The 60 amp switch/breaker is available from online solar stores. I use one that is designed to be a breaker and used as a switch as well. Here is the link to the one I used and you need......http://www.delcity.net/store/Hi!Amp...=38094426869&gclid=CNiw-PfXpcACFSgV7Aod8nkApw
Because I am a rooky at this and you all are so helpful so I am going to ask another question.

I am going to install a PV system on my 5er. According to Morningstar I should have a 60A

breaker on each side of the controller, I
am using a tristar 45 MPPT controller. This morning I went

to Home Depot to look for a single pole 60 amp breaker. The only breakers I could find were 60A

duel pole breakers.I was wondering if I took a duel pole breaker and removed the part that tied the

two switches together, would I then have two 60A single pole breakers?
If not, where can I get a

60A single pole breaker?
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
Its not rocket science, and If we had to consult a highschool drop out with a voltmeter for everything we need for our RVs we would be broke and we would have no PV systems or Inverters on our rigs. Fact is that I relied on information from several sources in the design and installation of my PV and inverter. I will put my very first such installation against any professional installation.

I would think that people who are not familiar with electricity and regulations for proper installation, would consult a well qualified person to help with the design and installation. To offer advise on a forum such as this for those who lack that knowledge is not helpful IMHO
 

dcwettstein

Well-known member
I am not an idiot. I have put new electrical service in two houses and they both passed inspection the first time. I just have not had any experience with DC so I am asking questions. What are these forums for if you can't ask questions! IMHO!!!!
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
DITTO.........If it were not for blogs and websites where very concerned and generous guys wrote about their experiences and explained important details, I would not have been able to piece it together as nicely as I did. I owe it to the info I got from the net. I had my computer out by my rig so when I was not sure of what I was doing I could look it up. Thanks to the guys who were thoughtful enough to write it down. Even the ones that argued over their installations, that information was valuable also. Good luck with your install. BTW, I only used that breaker on the positive wire. Also buy a roll of yellow tape at lowes. Yellow equal positive in solar.

I am not an idiot. I have put new electrical service in two houses and they both passed inspection the first time. I just have not had any experience with DC so I am asking questions. What are these forums for if you can't ask questions! IMHO!!!!
 

porthole

Retired
Aso buy a roll of yellow tape at lowes. Yellow equal positive in solar.

Too many colors used now in wiring. In the DC world of boating, yellow is now a ground conductor, to eliminate any confusion between DC ground black or AC hot black.
Marine "safety wiring" is now jacketed, 2 conductor red and yellow.
 

porthole

Retired
Too many colors used now in wiring. In the DC world of boating, yellow is now a ground conductor, to eliminate any confusion between DC ground black or AC hot black.
Marine "safety wiring" is now jacketed, 2 conductor red and yellow.

I only brought this up to reference some confusion in wiring standards.
I "should" have "qualified" the above with the "standard", ABYC - American Boating & Yacht Council. Those standards where adopted because the mix of AC and DC systems within one structure (boat).
Keeping in mind, this is just a standard, not a law. But, it is a universally accepted standard in the US.

Since our trailers are a mix of AC and DC circuits I'm surprised a common standard has not been adopted yet. Especially since trailers and water craft are very similar in wiring requirements. And, that mix of wiring tends to be all mixed together in the same compartments.

Standards for residential and commercial solar systems are constantly being revamped because of the inherent dangers.
Although we will never see 7000 solar panels on the roofs of our RV's, a warehouse fire in New Jersey last year is causing a new look at standards. Which, could very well trickle down to us.


Also buy a roll of yellow tape at lowes. Yellow equal positive in solar.

Why don't you qualify that with the source that says yellow equals positive in solar?
Best I can find is yellow is the C conductor of 3 phase AC - or an alternative feed from a panel.

So why did you delete this?
Porthole


Thanks for your input on your boating electrical system knowledge. When I build my boat, I will take it into consideration. Meanwhile I will mark my solar positive with a band of yellow tape.

Looking forward to when you do, I'll advise the local TowBoatUS operator when you do to sign you up for the unlimited plan. The unlimited plan is really the best bang for the buck.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
Porthole

Everything does not have to be proven. I got that information during my research about PV systems prior to my build, the source was reputable and it sounded like a good idea........

I decided to employ it because I needed to distinguish between the Solar DC leads to my battery. Its just a little band of yellow tape on the positive and a band of green tape on the negative. If its wrong then its wrong but it helps me, and that is all that matters. Yellow is for sunshine and green is for earth. I don't know how much simpler it can be.

I deleted it because I did not want offend you or to be rude to you.
 
Last edited:

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
You have to add up your amp hours. There are a lot of interactive charts on the net that can help you with that. The Bogart trimetric should be installed right away, It comes with a complicated set of instructions. But when you realize that it is just an instrument and not a control you can get the idea behind their instructions. Then the installation and programing get easier/self explanatory. There are many YouTube videos to help you with the Bogart Trimetric and the other competitive brands. Bogart seems to be the industry leader.

The reason the Trimetric is important is that it can tell you what is going on with the battery. For example, if your rig is dark/not powered up, the trimetric will show you what amps are being drawn in that condition. In a perfect situation it should only show a 1/2 amp, which covers your detectors, CO/LP etc. IF you operate your landing gear you can see what is being drawn from that activity, that might be 3 amps for 45 seconds. So right now you need to install the Trimetric even with the battery you currently have so that at least you can get an idea what your DC circuits draw. Test each DC item and jod down what it is costing in amp hours. You can be hooked up to shore power and still get an accurate reading of the DC being consumed off your charger and your OEM batt. All your interested in the beginning is how many amp hours your rig draws

When your fridge is running on LP, it uses the battery to power the circuit boards, when the water heater is on LP it uses the battery to power those circuits boards. Your inverter will give the specification as to what it consumes at idle. So add these up. This will get you going and the information you glean from that and a study of how many watts or amp hours it takes to invert 120v to run your TV and sound system including your blu-ray, a coffee pot, your wife's hair dryer and a waffle maker or your microwave. 3 minutes of microwave will pull your batts down, so if you install an inverter large enough to do that, then you use that thing sparingly. We use ours to pop popcorn sometimes or to heat a cup of water for instant coffee, but LP can heat a lot of water for what it takes to heat a cup of water in a microwave.

So all that being said, I only have 2 T1275 for a total of 300 amp hours. To preserve the life of my batts I try to only use 150 amp hours which is 50%. This is the magic number that you will hear regarding flooded lead acid batteries. It does not mean you cannot take them to 30%, but its hard on the batts and if you do it all the time battery life suffers.

I can get a charge even on cloudy days because my panels are not affected by shade over one part of the panel and they are good harvesters of light, and I have a lot of panel. I can generally replace each day what I have used plus use some of it as well. This is where your Trimetric comes in. If you see that you are at 67% then you need to not invert for the toaster waffles you wanted. Perhaps the bacon and eggs cooked with LP is a better choice. perhaps you need to turn off the home theater and watch TV with its own internal speakers and keep all the lights out. Especially if you don't know when the sun is going to shine again.

Ok now to your question, the T1275 work well for me, pay attention to the post/terminal this is important, I would use a buss bar if I did it over again and I still might. It is hard to get all those leads and monitoring wires onto the post, so one wire to the buss and then everything off the buss.

If you want only 2 to 3 12v T1275 for 450 amp hours (225 ah considering 50% discharge) then you should balance that with an adequate number of watts/amps/volts from your PVA. There is a guide for that I will send you a link.

I like the trojan batts, but there are others, continental comes to mind, There are a few others you will run across in your study. Pay attention to amp hours at the 20 hour rate. This is the only way to compare batteries for your PVA. Use the weight per ah method to see who is lying. Trojan is the name in the industrial batteries use them for a comparison, if they tell you they can get you 150 ah at 12v at the 20 hour rate for 83 lbs then that is the mark, if someone says that they can get you 150 ah for 50 lbs then someone is lying.

Currently my PVA is larger than what I need for my batts, I can get charged to 100% before noon. I can increase my capacity by adding a battery. I have 300 ah now, by adding another T1275, I will then have 450 ah, 50% of that is 225 ah.

Are you an energy hog? this is a question that must be answered, some are real frugal, some are wasters, some are middle of the road.

So the upshot is the T1275 are working good for me, my system is designed to recharge everyday but might go 3 days if extreme conservation measures are taken, i atleast get some sunshine, I'm willing to take the batts to 30 or 40%.

http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

http://www.amsolar.com/home/amr/page_26

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/ac-to-dc-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html



Jim
How do the T-1275 work for you? can you go a couple days without sun?
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
For the 6v batt enthusiast. Look at the T145P rather than the traditional T105 favored by the traditionalist........

This is a list of all of Trojans batteries, it is a good guide no matter what battery brand you are thinking about buying, if it can't do what is on this list then you don't want it, Trojan has the name but there are others just a good, continental comes to mind.

When it comes to batteries, there is X ah / lb / $ / square foot. If you can beat or match Trojan performance then you are doing good. FLA, AGM. Some use gel-cell but I think this was just a fad, I have read that they do not do well in PVA as a house battery.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TRJN0111_ProdSpecGuide.pdf

http://www.continentalbattery.com/support.html

Here is a chart that I used to make my decision about the T1275 12v. vs the T145P 6v

for a 12v bank composed of 12v batts, number of batts.....1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
for a 12v bank composed of 6v batts, number of batts.......x 2 x 4 x 6 x 8 x 10


1 12v T1275=150 ah, 1 batt=150ah..... 2 batts=300ah.....3 batts = 450ah....4 batts = 600ah
parallel............................82 lbs .................164 lbs..............246 lbs........... 328 lbs............ =1.83ah/lb

1 6v T145P = 260 ah,.........X...............2 batts=260ah..............X................4 batts=520ah
Series/parallel...................X......................144lbs...................X....................288 lbs............=1.81ah/lb

Study the dimensions on these batteries, they are big and heavy, I have 2 in my battery compartment and there is not room for anymore. The only thing that could have been done from the beginning is to have used the AGM and put them in the basement. Battery planning is going to be a major consideration.
 

dcwettstein

Well-known member
I now have two 136 watt panels mounted to the top of my 5er. I have the wires run to the controller, but, not hooked up. I also have a 60 amp breaker/disconnect to the positive side of the battery. Tomorrow I hope to hook up the panels to the controller and program the controller and a little more wiring to get this side of the system finished. Have not purchased the inverter/charger because I am toying with the idea of a hybrid. I think I will go with a Magnum but the cost is high.
 
Top