Defective Transfer Switch/Surge Guard

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Just wanted to give a shout out to Heartland RV and Jason in customer service. I called to let him know of my TRC 41260 transfer switch/surge guard failing. After providing him my vin and the info he requested he told me he would ship a replacement out to me under my factory warranty. 6 days later the replacement has arrived. I installed the new one and am back in business. The prompt, quick warranty service is a testiment to Heartland's outstanding customer service. This is my second time Jason has provided professional and prompt service for me. Thanks again.


P.S. To 'make do' while waiting for the replacement I wired the AC direct which meant going without surge protection. Glad it all worked out. And thanks to Jim B for his advice on how to bypass the transfer switch. I found the 'split bolts' at the local Lowe's. They did the trick and worked great. First time for using them and I will keep them in the tool kit for future emergency use.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Hey Jim - happy to hear this all worked out. Though you have no plans to add a generator, in some respects, it made sense to get a warranty replacement of the ATS. While aggravating for you to be sure - it was a learning for you as well. Now you can share your knowledge with others.

I don't know what it is with these RV ATSs. I've lost one, Dan M has lost at least 2 and others have lost them as well. Also, it's not just TRC - it's PDI was well. Maybe the plugging and unplugging of shore power for campground setups and teardowns, over time, wear out the contactors. That's all I can think.

If I ever lose another one, I'll use 50 connectors on them to make the replacement plug-and-play :) See you in Goshen my friend.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
At the time I was getting the warranty replacement of the TRC I purchased another TRC and installed it. It lasted only 2 hours before it too failed. I got it warranty replaced also. I also had a PDI pedestal mounted 50 amp device. At the time of the TRC failure the PDI was plugged in the pedestal and gave me an E4 fault with 95 volts on one leg and 157 on the other. I measured the voltage on the pedestal and it measured 124 on L1 and 124 on L2. The PDI pole mounted device failed. It is currently is being rebuilt by PDI. So it was a failure of the PDI and TRC devices at the same time. Murphy's Law again at work. Right now we have the TRC warranty replacement installed and am waiting for the PDI device to be returned. I have been told by techs at bot TRC and PDI that using them both at the same time does not hurt anything. Guess it is double protection.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Wow Jim - that's an odd one.

By the way, when I used PDI in the context of an ATS (automatic transfer switch), I meant Progressive Dynamics, Inc. - link.

When you use it, I "think" you may mean Progressive Industries - link.

I believe I was once told by PDI that their ATS does NOT like low voltage and that can cause contactor chatter. It's that chatter (rapid switching) that as I understand it, is hard on the contactor.

Wondering if your Progressive Industries EMS (electrical management system) was the cause of the low voltage to the ATS - since you actually measured low voltage out of the EMS when the line voltage at the ped was good. Just a thought - not that it matters much now.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
E4 fault with 95 volts on one leg and 157 on the other.

I believe I was once told by PDI that their ATS does NOT like low voltage and that can cause contactor chatter. It's that chatter (rapid switching) that as I understand it, is hard on the contactor.

The Progressive Dynamics looks for min of 105V to operate the contactors. The TRC Surge Guard/Transfer Switch probably also does. If the Progressive EMS was showing 95 volts on L1, I agree with Jim B., that probably caused the transfer switch chatter, and perhaps caused the failure.

The uneven voltage suggests a partial/complete failure on the neutral line inside the the EMS unit. You're probably lucky that the 95V was on L1, preventing the transfer switch from passing power to the coach. If it had worked, the 157V on L2 might have damaged some of your appliances on the L2 leg.

The Lost Neutral Presentation in this folder explains what happens to voltage when the neutral is compromised.

Might be worth asking Progressive what they found during the repair/rebuild.
 

avvidclif

Well-known member
That's confusing. He (Jim) has a TRC ATS/Surge protector built-in to his RV. He also said he had a PDI Pedestal Mounted device, which I can't find that they make one. PI makes one as does TRC. And then the PDI Transfer switch got thrown into the pile to help the confusion. I'm LOST.

As a side note when I installed the Progressive Industries EMS-50 in my Cyclone I found it had the Progressive Dynamics Ind PD5200 series ATS which does NOT have surge protection built-in. I had thought it had the one with surge protection but it didn't.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Hey Jim - happy to hear this all worked out. Though you have no plans to add a generator, in some respects, it made sense to get a warranty replacement of the ATS. While aggravating for you to be sure - it was a learning for you as well. Now you can share your knowledge with others.

I don't know what it is with these RV ATSs. I've lost one, Dan M has lost at least 2 and others have lost them as well. Also, it's not just TRC - it's PDI was well. Maybe the plugging and unplugging of shore power for campground setups and teardowns, over time, wear out the contactors. That's all I can think.

If I ever lose another one, I'll use 50 connectors on them to make the replacement plug-and-play :) See you in Goshen my friend.

Jim:
I have made it part of my departuare/arrival checklists steps to turn OFF my mains inside breakers BEFORE disconnecting shore power during departure, and not to turn the inside mains breakers back ON until shore power is connected upon arrival. This way the large current EMS and transfer switch contactors switch without an electrical load on the contacts, minimizing contactor contact arcing, pitting and contact deterioration. This way, the only contacts that should be arcing under load are the mains breakers contacts. Replacement mains breakers are readily accessable at home improvement stores, and cost less than the EMS boxes, or transfer switches. Also, the mains breaker panel is very accessible, and replacing breakers is not nearly the crawl space job that replacing the EMS box or transfer switch is.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Yes I meant the Progressive Industries. And we do turn off all power when disconnecting/connecting. We just don't turn it off at the breaker. That is we turn off the ACs, lights (12v), all fans and everything else that is 120v operated. Then we turn them on after AC power has been applied.
 

avvidclif

Well-known member
Yes I meant the Progressive Industries. And we do turn off all power when disconnecting/connecting. We just don't turn it off at the breaker. That is we turn off the ACs, lights (12v), all fans and everything else that is 120v operated. Then we turn them on after AC power has been applied.

I always make sure the pedestal breaker is OFF before plugging in. Once all is connected I turn on the breaker and listen for the Surge Protector to clunk. That means it was happy with everything and applied power to the RV/Transfer Switch. No clunk I check the display for the problem code. Reverse for unhooking, pedestal breaker off and then unplug.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
I always make sure the pedestal breaker is OFF before plugging in. Once all is connected I turn on the breaker and listen for the Surge Protector to clunk. That means it was happy with everything and applied power to the RV/Transfer Switch. No clunk I check the display for the problem code. Reverse for unhooking, pedestal breaker off and then unplug.

We do the same. Also I always let the PI device do its check before we plug the coach in. One time we found a whole row of pedestals with open grounds. We never plug into a 'hot' outllet.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Yes I meant the Progressive Industries. And we do turn off all power when disconnecting/connecting. We just don't turn it off at the breaker. That is we turn off the ACs, lights (12v), all fans and everything else that is 120v operated. Then we turn them on after AC power has been applied.

Jim:
Simply turning off the inside mains is ONE switch to flip, and does everything electrically that your flipping all of the breakers does. THE MAINS FEED THE INDIVIDUAL CIRCUITS BREAKERS.

Turning power OFF at the RV park pedestal BEFORE connecting the shore power cord is always a good practice (although by following my stated procedure there is no initial current load on the pedestal outlet contacts). But if you turn on the park pedestal breaker with your inside mains turned on, your EMS and Transfer Switch large relay contacts are going to conduct an initial load from your battery converter/charger and refrigerator heater (at least), and cause the arcing and pitting on those contacts. When I go inside to turn on the power mains breakers, I look at my Progressive EMS readout to see there are no power problems before turning on the mains breaker.

BTW, I bring my Non-Contact AC Voltage detector with me as I go inside to turn on the mains, and check the trailer frame outside for an unsafe electrical leakage (shock) condition before opening the door.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Jim:
Simply turning off the inside mains is ONE switch to flip, and does everything electrically that your flipping all of the breakers does. THE MAINS FEED THE INDIVIDUAL CIRCUITS BREAKERS.

Turning power OFF at the RV park pedestal BEFORE connecting the shore power cord is always a good practice (although by following my stated procedure there is no initial current load on the pedestal outlet contacts). But if you turn on the park pedestal breaker with your inside mains turned on, your EMS and Transfer Switch large relay contacts are going to conduct an initial load from your battery converter/charger and refrigerator heater (at least), and cause the arcing and pitting on those contacts. When I go inside to turn on the power mains breakers, I look at my Progressive EMS readout to see there are no power problems before turning on the mains breaker.

BTW, I bring my Non-Contact AC Voltage detector with me as I go inside to turn on the mains, and check the trailer frame outside for an unsafe electrical leakage (shock) condition before opening the door.

Sounds like a good plan. My only question is how much wear and tear are you putting on the main breaker. It is a PITA to change it out. Also if they can't design a circuit that cannot handle that load then I really don't want it. Also by turning on the individual switches I am loading the circuits gradually instead of turning on the main with the switches already on. But I do understand what you are saying. Just saying I have been doing what I do since the early '80s and this is the first problem. I really believe our problem began at a Thousand Trails park when we were plugged into an old pedestal.
 
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