Too fast? Inexperience? Improper loading?

B

BouseBill

Guest
My first impression is speed, if he did not have a equalizing hitch that may have helped prevent the situation,? although it's been quite a few years since I've towed a standard trailer, If I remember correctly the driver should have taken his/her foot off the gas and applied just the trailer brakes to control the situation.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Even with torsion bars and a sway bar . . . going too fast with lots of weight on the rear end of the trailer will cause sway!

Plus, it looks like this guy was going way too fast, and I never once saw his break lights come on.

He had plenty of time to stop this situation . . . but never tried!
 

Kbvols

Well-known member
Speed may not have been all the cause but I bet it played a factor especially given the fact the camper was passing the vehicle with the camera.

We just returned from a trip to the Black Hills I was amazed at the speed people are pulling rv's. The RV traffic was heavy I guess because the speed limit was 80 they were determined to go 80. Many were towing trailers behind there 5vers and TT's. I suppose some had the skill to handle but in my opinion most were just idiots. I especially liked the ones going 80....one hand on the wheel. ... one hand with cell phone to their ear and the trailer wagging from one side of the lane to the other....speed on Bro!!
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
I saw this link on another RV forum... Speed or loading? Wrong hitch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=34&v=INyiMA3hfto

All of the above, plus inexperience, possibly wind, and physics. Judging by the video I would also suspect the lack of sway control bars or incorrectly adjusted bars.It's far easier to prevent this type of accident by following proper recommendations for equipment, load capacites and speed then trying to correct it once it happens. If you watch the video notice the top of the trailer. All vehicle loading capacities are based on equal loading. When the trailer tips one way, more load is transferred to that side, which amplifies any steering corrections. Lots of folks think they are safe from this type of accident because they have a 5th wheel. While they do tend to be more stable then a bumper pull, if they've maxed out the weight limit on their truck, the same thing can and will happen to them. Correcting the sway is frankly more of a matter of luck then skill when it gets to a certain point. 1st thing is take your foot off the gas, and stay off the brake. Think of any steering wheel corrections as "micro" adjustments. I've also applied the trailer brakes manually to pull the trailer back in line, but it has to be done with finesse. Locked brakes on the trailer will cause a loss of traction that may put you in even worse condition.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
We cannot really tell speed, nor can we tell loading so any of that is a guess. There are other issues that may have come into play here not the least of which is wind and the effects of the semi's "suction" if the wind is blowing. It appears that the sway starts just as the trailer gets past the front of the truck. I suspect that loading and speed helped start a sway as the trailer came out of the effects of the semi.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
It looks to me like that trailer was already swaying before it came into view of the camera.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
Could be but I ran it a number of times stopping it as it progresses and it seems that the sway starts just about the time he clears the semi trailer. That would be about the time that the "suction" would grab it and the air flow from the front of the semi would kick in. The physics of this type of accident (I have investigated many, many of them) generally starts the action just about where this one looks like it starts.

I should add that, as you mentioned, the weight on the shelf on the back of the trailer adds to the instability. I don't know where this accident happened but it looks very much like I-40 in Arizona or New Mexico and it just almost always blows from the north in the Winter or the south in the Summer and blows hard at times.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
I ran it several times . . . frame by frame . . . as well.

It looks to me like that red truck is already swaying when it comes in to view.

I'm also pretty sure there was no WD setup on that trailer, either.

If that had been hooked up I think the truck would have flipped along with the trailer.

I was kind of thinking that looks like I-80 in Wyoming.
 

MCTalley

Well-known member
Standard interstate stripes are 40 feet from center to center. Based on that and counting stripes per time, the semi truck was doing around 57 mph. That would put the RVer at 60-65.

Also, the caption on the video says Interstate 86 Idaho.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
The oscillations began as the Tow vehicle emerged the area of pressure beside the truck. It appears that he entered an endless loop of over corrections that increased in intensity on every oscillation.

I don't have a TT, so I don't know what kind of gear or loading would have saved him, but with my fiver, I try to function on rules of thumb, one of my rules of thumb is get in the right hand lane and pull 65 with the trucks. If I get too close to a truck, then I reduce speed a little until I am comfortable with the distance. Passing only when absolutely necessary. It makes little sense to expose yourself to maneuvers that can result in accidents for little or no gain.

I'm amazed at the compact SUVs pulling TT without the proper gear. Severely overloaded, and a number of passengers. I cringe when I see it. These rigs are not just marginally over loaded but way overloaded with the front wheels off the ground. Accidents waiting to happen.
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
Could be but I ran it a number of times stopping it as it progresses and it seems that the sway starts just about the time he clears the semi trailer. That would be about the time that the "suction" would grab it and the air flow from the front of the semi would kick in. The physics of this type of accident (I have investigated many, many of them) generally starts the action just about where this one looks like it starts.

I should add that, as you mentioned, the weight on the shelf on the back of the trailer adds to the instability. I don't know where this accident happened but it looks very much like I-40 in Arizona or New Mexico and it just almost always blows from the north in the Winter or the south in the Summer and blows hard at times.

Unfortunately had to work a few of these accidents as well. Fortunately there were no serious injuries. You could be right, trailer sway doesn't just happen without something starting the process. We had a TT /Excursion combination for awhile. Despite the fact that we were well within the weight limits, and had an equalizing hitch with dual sway control bars, we still had the push/pull effect when passing or being passed by another large vehicle. Strong crosswinds were always a reason for concern. I can only imagine how much MORE difficult driving this combination would have been had I not had the proper hitch and an overloaded vehicle. Our current rig is a 5th wheel/F350 dually, all within manufacturer's weight limits. I can tell you the difference in towing is night and day. There is no push/pull effect when passing or being passed by other large vehicles, nor is there any significant instability in strong crosswinds. The bottom line is FOLLOW the manufacturer's limits for weight and loading, use the proper equipment for towing your particular trailer, reduce your speed, and pay attention!
 

MCTalley

Well-known member
I posted this before in another thread, but this is almost exactly what happened to my grandparents back in the late 1970's (but in reverse, the semi passed them at a pretty good clip). The difference is that they ended up upside down in the middle of the road, their Airstream stayed hitched to their tow vehicle and both rolled over at the same time.

The correct answer is to hit your trailer brakes and let it straighten out the rig before proceeding. My grandmother was driving and didn't know or think to do that at the time. Grandfather knew that the trailer brake needed to be applied, but their controller was located all the way over next to the driver's door, so he couldn't reach it to help my grandmother out. Their next vehicle had a string tied from the controller actuator over to the passenger side of the dashboard (why they didn't just put the controller under the dash towards the middle is beyond me).
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
Since McTalley told his story, I will tell mine, when my wife was a teen, she and her family struck out on an adventure from their home in El Paso. They had a K5 Blazer and a Travel Trailer. They were passed by a truck which set off events that turned them over. My wife, then a 17 YO was driving. The injuries were significant but not life threatening.

Hensley, the makers of the TT hitches, says that TT accidents are the best kept secrets in the industry.
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
The correct answer is to hit your trailer brakes and let it straighten out the rig before proceeding.

Yes and no. Depends on where in the sway your trailer is. Hit the brakes out the outside of the sway and you run the risk of escalating the problem.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
The key is not to 'hit' the trailer brakes, but to activate them to the point of just enough drag to stop the sway.

That would have been what would have saved that trailer in the video.

Or driving slower . . . one of the two.

I still think that the sway was already going on before the truck/trailer passed the cab of the truck with the camera on the dash . . .

And it is quite possible that the sway may have already started before the truck/trailer even got beside the semi truck in the first place.
 

jnbhobe

Well-known member
The only way to straighten out a situation like that is to apply the trailer brakes and hold your speed. If that don't do it you will need the brakes full on and open the throttle wide open and steer straight.

Sent from my K010 using Tapatalk
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
What are the chances of this happening to a fifth wheel

I've been pulling bumper pull campers for 40 years, but am a newbie to 5-wheelin' (picked it up two months ago today).

Even though I've only pulled my new trailer five times, it seems to me that it would be much harder for something like this to happen.

I will let some of the more experienced 5th-wheelers chime in as I am interested in the answer!
 

danemayer

Well-known member
What are the chances of this happening to a fifth wheel


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In general chances might be a lot lower with a fifth wheel.

But it might be different if you have a high profile, 39 foot, 16,000 5'er being pulled by a short-bed SRW that's way overloaded on payload spec putting the truck out of balance. Add some strong crosswinds and tow at 75 mph. Maybe you can be in a viral video.
 
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