Troubleshooting for Short in Circuit #4 ('09 3600RE)

rad11

Member
Anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting/fixing this problem?

All electrical circuits worked fine during PDI and 2 nites of camping while bringing new camper home from dealer in late March '08 (470 mile trip). Since then we've had slides out and in 5 or 6 times while cleaning, loading, admiring, showing off to friends, etc. THEN, last weekend when on our first camping outing, circuit #4 (labeled "slides") in the 120v panel was not working. The breaker for that circuit will not reset when shore power is present but will reset if I disconnect shore power, until I restore shore power and then it trips again. This effects the outlet under the upper cabinet between fridge and microwave, the a/c power to the fridge, also the near-floor outlet in lounge chair slide, the outlet to TV and tuner in rear entertainment center and the near-floor outlet in big door-side slide.

I am fairly familiar with electrical wiring and so far I have opened up the circuit breaker panel box, and all outlet boxes and found no obvious problem, opened 3 junction boxes (one each under kitchen and lounge chair slides and one next to the outlet in the lounge chair slide... again no obvious problem. I also went to what I believe is the first outlet box in the circuit (next to fridge/microwave) and disconnected the wires (thus isolating the portion of the circuit past that point away from the circuit prior to that point). The breaker still trips when shore power is applied thus telling me the short is somewhere between the circuit breaker panel box and that first outlet. The GFCI outlets work fine and apparently are not part of this circuit.

At this point I believe I have either a faulty breaker (I intend to call Heartland customer service today to request a new breaker) , or a pinched wire (bared conductor touching/grounded to frame), perhaps caused by the action of the kitchen slide. I ran out of time last night, but my next step is to remove the fabric covered panel in the storage area allowing access to the area behind the electrical panel to see if I can track the wire from main panel to first outlet box to find a short.

Having said all that, does anyone have any thoughts on what else I can do to trouble shoot this problem?

P.S. The two closest Heartland dealers are 90 and 93 miles distant, so I'd just as soon fix this myself, if I can.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
rad11,

I know this issue began for you at a CG on their shore power. But are you saying the problem is still there at home on your own shore power?

Reason I ask is that I had an issue in my TT that blew the shore power breaker at the CG but did not blow my home shore power breaker.

I realize the breaker in question in your case is in the AC panel in the trailer.

Due to my limited RV electrical system experience, I can only toss out the same old line that worked in my unique situation. My suggestion is that you go outside, remove the cover to the water heater and turn OFF the black rocker switch, then repower the trailer and test the circuit in question.

There is a chance that your electric heating element in the water heater was dry fired and blown and therefore presenting a short circuit.

Doubt this is your issue but it's about all I got :)

Another thing to look for is pull the cover off the AC panel to reveal the bus bars. With the trailer un-powered, use a screwdriver to to tighten down all of the hot, neutral and ground wires on those 3 bus bars. It is possible you have a loose wire on that circuit.

Best of luck and let us know what it was when you get it fixed.
 

rad11

Member
Jim:

Yes, the breaker tripped at the CG shorepower and now trips at home shorepower.

I did pull the cover off the coach's AC panel and made sure that all connections were tight and that there were no wiring faults there.

I didn't look at the water heater yet, although I did have hot water all weekend at the CG, even while this circuit was tripped. I will try what you suggest with the black rocker switch in the outside access port of the water heater.

Thanks for your suggestions.
 

Forrest Fetherolf

Senior Member
rad1,

Unplug the refrig from 120v in exterior refrig access compartment and test circuit.......that eliminates any refrig problem. If problem continues.........the fact that the slides have been moved in and out several times.........check all wiring from frame mounted junction box to point of entry under the slide. Several have had problems with the wiring pinching or rubbing through along the plastic flexguard. Also, the flexguard on my 3600RL kitchen slide was to long and rubbing on the tire when towing.
 

rad11

Member
Forrest:

I did unplug the fridge from it's outlet box and then plugged it directly into an extension cord to see if the fridge would run on AC instead of gas.... it did, BUT I don't think I tried the breaker again with the fridge unplugged from the coach... I'll try that when I get back to troubleshooting on my vacation day this Friday. I also did do a cursory check of all wiring between frame mounted junction boxes on both off-door slides, BUT I will go back and do a closer inspection on Friday. I am still hoping that with all storage area panels removed that I will be able to see in to that area far enough to confirm or deny my suspicion that the wire is pinched somewhere in there. If it is, it may be easier to just run a new section of wire (14ga 2 wire w/gnd?) from the bus bars in the panel to the first outlet box.

Thanks for your input.
 

htneighbors

Unbelievably Blessed!
Breaker Tripping

A breaker tripping can mean a couple of different things: weak breaker, connected device shorted, wire loose or shorted out. Limited on details, I will be making a few assumptions. I will assume the breaker is tripping instantly upon electric power being applied, rather than only after some source of current draw is applied. (If there is a delay, have you tried to check the circuit amps with a hand-held meter before it trips or is it happening too fast?) I will also assume all receptacles are good and not shorted internally.
  • Loose wire: Check all wires connected to receptacles, any wire nut joints and in the panel.
  • Weak breaker: Doubtful, being new, but always a possibility. Easy to check. With shore power off, disconnect the wire from the breaker. Turn power on. Does the breaker stay on or trip off?
  • Connected device shorted: Other than the slide motor, you mentioned the fridge, TV and tuner being powered by this circuit. Definitely check the breaker without them plugged in. You said the fridge ran fine on electric while powered by an outside circuit, so that probably is not your problem. Leave the TV, tuner and fridge unplugged from RV power while troubleshooting. That leaves the slide motor. I do not know about the 3600RE, (my slide motor is 12 VDC), but you need to -somehow, somewhere - disconnect the motor while leaving the rest of the circuit intact. By isolating the motor from the circuit, you can then power up the circuit and see if the breaker still trips. If so, this would leave the assumption that the motor itself is still good and the problem would seem to be elsewhere in the wiring.
  • Wire shorting out: This can definitely be more difficult to troubleshoot since we don't know the path of the circuit conductors. With the motor disconnected, nothing plugged into any receptacle and the fridge unplugged, if the breaker still trips when power is on, you have a problem in the wiring. Disconnect the wire from the breaker. Check with a continuity tester between the HOT wire and the NEUTRAL and then between the HOT and the GROUND. You will probably find continuity, although in a good, clean circuit you would have no continuity at all. Now it would be time to start checking the wires from one receptacle to the next, by disconnecting the wires at each one and testing continuity between them.
Good Luck! I love being an electrician, but electrical problems are a bummer! Hope this can help. Keep us posted!
 

flyfishing48

Active Member
rad 1, you have had several great suggestions. I would add one comment. I find the breakers used in my Sundance a little different than others I have encountered. Like most breakers if one trips it has to be cycled to the off position first to reset. This cycling to the off position is a more deliberate effort and works a little harder than others I have used.
If the breaker is not turned fully off it won't reset and may stay on briefly but return to the tripped position after turning on.
 

rad11

Member
htneighbors:

Thanks for the input. I'll apply your suggestions. As to the slide motor, it works fine with the breaker tripped. The circuit #4 is labeled "Slides" but it must just mean that the circuit routes through 3 of the slides, not that it operates the slide motor/pump.
 

rad11

Member
flyfishing48:

I agree that the breakers, when tripped, require an extra effort to reset by pushing all the way down and then back to the up position. I am, however, able to reset the breaker (pushing hard to get it to go all the way down) when shore power is disconnected. Then as soon as I reconnect shore power, the breaker trips again.

My next chance to work on the problem will be this Friday. I intend to work my way through all the great suggestions you all have provided. I also intend to remove the panel/board separating the storage area from the mechanical area aft of it and "see what I can see".
 

N9MB

Member
There is a metal junction box under the coach adjacent to the slide where the rubber ac flex line connects to the Romex. You can break the circuit there and isolate the slide. That might help with the process of elimination.

Good luck.
 

snuffy

Well-known member
Have you swapped the tripping breaker with the one beside it? That would tell you if the breaker itself is defective.
 

rad11

Member
Snuffy: Good idea. That's first on my list for tomorrow when I work on this again.

N9MB: I've been in that junction box and found that the breaker still trips even after isolating the rest of the circuit aft of that point. I noticed that there is a 1 1/2" hole in the frame adjacent to that junction box that I think will allow me to insert a "fish tape". I think I can then fish the tape toward the now removed wall panel in the basement storage area and then pull a new length of 14/2 w/gnd back to that junction box and of course wire the other end into the bus bars in the 120v panel. Also since that junction box is affixed to the coach frame, I won't need to allow extra wire length to accomodate for slide movement.

Hopefully I'll be able to post a successful conclusion to this episode on Monday.
 
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