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rhodies1
08-11-2016, 11:57 AM
Just received latest addition of Trailer Life magazine and see Heartland has a add for a Bighorn Traveler 5th wheel. Is this a new model in the Bighorn line up,an upgrade version,a downgrade version or just a rebrand of the current Bighorn name.No details or specs in the add.
thanks....

jnbhobe
08-11-2016, 12:36 PM
It's a cheaper version of the Bighorn like Silverado was.

rhodies1
08-11-2016, 03:16 PM
It's a cheaper version of the Bighorn like Silverado was.

Thanks,Silversdo did not survive, why play with a good brand name.

BigGuy82
08-24-2016, 11:48 PM
Thanks,Silversdo did not survive, why play with a good brand name.

Because most of the people in marketing are clueless ...

This comment is the result of 45 years with a major corporation ....

sengli
08-25-2016, 01:52 PM
Toured a couple of these units at a show last week. They really look great. I didnt think they were all that less attractive than the regular big horns, but were approximately $15-20K less. The ones we saw were in the mid 50's for pricing.

BigGuy82
08-25-2016, 01:55 PM
Toured a couple of these units at a show last week. They really look great. I didnt think they were all that less attractive than the regular big horns, but were approximately $15-20K less.

15-20K is a huge difference - I wonder what was shaved off to do this.

TravelTiger
08-29-2016, 05:08 PM
47364

More information on the BigHorn Traveler.

Erika

WBG
08-29-2016, 07:25 PM
47364

More information on the BigHorn Traveler.

Erika

Thanks for getting out the facts. Not sure that this is a good marketing move, but I have my doubts. Cheapening a Brand Name generally does not bode well for the brand.

BigGuy82
08-30-2016, 10:33 AM
** Post deleted **

Dick - I've deleted your post as I felt it was more of a "public shaming" post against Heartland RVs on a Heartland owned forum.

The discourse here on the HOF need not be all roses, but there is a line. Hoping you'll understand my decision for this social media channel.

Jim
Admin

mlpeloquin
08-30-2016, 11:39 AM
I remember the Ford LTD. Good big car with a good reputation. Then there was the marketing people and the Ford LTD II. Not the same and wasn't a success. People actually thought it was a LTD. Ford took a hit on sales. A black eye for Ford. Make something different and don't give it a similar name.

MTPockets
08-30-2016, 11:46 AM
I agree with the train of thought here. Many companies "changed" the formula that made them successful, only to regret it later when sales fell off; then blamed other factors on their demise.

BigGuy82
08-30-2016, 12:11 PM
Anybody remember "New Coke"? Shortly thereafter, Pepsi's market share popped. Hmmmm - wonder why ...

gwalter
08-30-2016, 01:26 PM
We have a 2014 Silverado. In 2013 it was labeled the Bighorn Silverado and in 14 just the Silverado. In 2015 it became the Oakmont and fell into the middle of the full profile models. It looks on the website like this is what the Traveler is. I don't know why they added the Bighorn name to it other than trying to up sales with name recognition.

Noofear
08-30-2016, 01:33 PM
I own a 2015 Bighorn 3875 FB and I'm sure a lot of other Bighorn owners as well as myself maybe concerned about what this will do to our trade-in or resale values.

As others have noted, the second edition is not always better. The Ford Bronco which I had one, won hands down IMO over the Bronco II.

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BusManRG
08-30-2016, 11:21 PM
As a brand new Big Horn owner, it doesn't make me happy.

TravelTiger
08-31-2016, 12:01 AM
Well, personally I think we need to wait and see. What I hope is for an elevated BigHorn that goes up a noticeable notch. We have not heard anything about significant BigHorn changes since Tom Montague took over. Remember what he did to elevate Landmark into the 365.


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SNOKING
08-31-2016, 07:32 AM
Bighorn got the elite models with the high roofs like the landmarks. Chris

cookie
08-31-2016, 07:46 AM
I'm sure a lot of other Bighorn owners as well as myself maybe concerned about what this will do to our trade-in or resale values.
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Ford made the Galaxy 500 then came out with a Pinto, still a Ford. I don't think the Galaxy 500 resale value suffered.
And Ford is still in business.

Peace
Dave

Noofear
08-31-2016, 11:45 AM
It's my understanding that the traveler will be 15 to $20,000 less I don't see how this could be an upgrade whatsoever.

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BigGuy82
08-31-2016, 12:33 PM
It's my understanding that the traveler will be 15 to $20,000 less I don't see how this could be an upgrade whatsoever.

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That's because it's not an upgrade. It's a clear cheapening of the brand to make gullible future buyers think they are getting something they are not.

Typicsl cheap marketing ploy. Probably a move made by a marketing VP who learned that tactic in his MBA classes.

JohnD
08-31-2016, 02:16 PM
I think some of you guys are getting into a tizzy over nothing . . .

It is just a new lower priced model . . .

Nothing more . . . nothing less.

BigGuy82
08-31-2016, 02:41 PM
I think some of you guys are getting into a tizzy over nothing . . .

It is just a new lower priced model . . .

Nothing more . . . nothing less.

The last time I was in a "tizzy" was ... never ... I am however, not very happy. I just (as in 3 months ago) spent a boatload on a new coach that carries a quality name - Bighorn. Yes, that's important to me (the guy who spent the money) because it indicates to others that I appreciate quality products and it also may very well translate into bucks down the road when I trade up. Now, along comes the Bighorn Traveler - 20K less so of course have many corners cut, translating into vocal, disatisfied owners who's comments will quite likely deteriorate the value of the brand. If this is "nothing more ... nothing less" than a lower priced model, do you have any ideas why they couldn't call it the Heartland Traveler? Well, I'll tell you why - refer to my earlier quote from some VP of Very Important Stuff who is quoted as saying that "dealers wanted to leverage the Bighorn name". In other words, let's convince future customers that they are getting something they are not.

Unless the execs at Heartland have learned some new and mystic secret that allows them to trim the prce 15 to 20K while maintaining or raising quality, I would suggest that those who hold their breath to see where this goes will turn blue waiting. I'm aware that Heartland won't be changing anything based on my opinion, but it never hurts to let them know and maybe if they get enough flack, they will change. Heartland is not my pal or partner or anything other than the manufacturer of my product and I am their customer - right now, a concerned customer. They read these forums and if they don't agree with a thread, they can step in with their point of view.

As someone who just spent the long buck, I'm really not to happy about this move and I do believe this forum is an appropriate and excellent place to discuss this.

TravelTiger
08-31-2016, 02:47 PM
It's my understanding that the traveler will be 15 to $20,000 less I don't see how this could be an upgrade whatsoever.

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If this was related to my comments, I'm taking about a future upgrade to the Bighorn, NOT the Traveler.


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BigGuy82
08-31-2016, 03:24 PM
Ford made the Galaxy 500 then came out with a Pinto, still a Ford. I don't think the Galaxy 500 resale value suffered.
And Ford is still in business.

Peace
Dave

Can't disagree but also, they didn't call it the Ford Galaxy Pinto. It was the Ford Pinto and the Ford Galaxy 500. My point being that the new Traveler could be the Heartland Traveller just as we have the Heartland Bighorn, etc. Instead, we have the Heartland Bighorn Traveler. I don't object to any model (high or low price) - that's the manufacturfers prerogative. My objection is how tying the new model to one that has a known quality level will affect the value of my investment. As far as my coach, I'm happy with it.

Sorry for continuing to ramble on with this thread - I've said enough - hopefully someone at Heartland may find a message here.

JWalker
08-31-2016, 03:43 PM
They had the BigHorn Silverado a few years back. Then I believe the Silverado went into its own brand that eventually became the Oakmont. That didn't seem to hurt the BigHorn name. You still bought one and you're still happy with it.

gwalter
08-31-2016, 04:05 PM
When I bought my Silverado, I didn't buy it because it said Bighorn Silverado. I bought it because it was the floorplan we liked in the price range for us. We have been extremely pleased with I after 2 years of use. There are those that have been unhappy with a Bighorn before this time and some will be after this. Overall the success of a line depends on customer satisfaction.


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Noofear
08-31-2016, 04:43 PM
If this was related to my comments, I'm taking about a future upgrade to the Bighorn, NOT the Traveler.


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Sorry about that I miss read your post and later I thought it over and realize that you were talking about future upgrades to the Bighorn and not the traveler

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Noofear
08-31-2016, 04:45 PM
Can't disagree but also, they didn't call it the Ford Galaxy Pinto. It was the Ford Pinto and the Ford Galaxy 500. My point being that the new Traveler could be the Heartland Traveller just as we have the Heartland Bighorn, etc. Instead, we have the Heartland Bighorn Traveler. I don't object to any model (high or low price) - that's the manufacturfers prerogative. My objection is how tying the new model to one that has a known quality level will affect the value of my investment. As far as my coach, I'm happy with it.

Sorry for continuing to ramble on with this thread - I've said enough - hopefully someone at Heartland may find a message here.
Totally agree with you I bought the Bighorn a high-end product not to have it cannibalized by some lesser quality trailer down the road

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TravelTiger
08-31-2016, 05:04 PM
Sorry about that I miss read your post and later I thought it over and realize that you were talking about future upgrades to the Bighorn and not the traveler

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No problem! ;)


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codycarver
08-31-2016, 05:22 PM
I think some of you guys are getting into a tizzy over nothing . . .

It is just a new lower priced model . . .

Nothing more . . . nothing less.

Gotta agree. BTW what's up with the furnace?

Noofear
08-31-2016, 07:54 PM
What if they came out with the prowler traveler and decided to sell it for $25,000 how would you feel about that your investment being cut in half by a new name cannibalizing what you thought was a steady product line

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Noofear
08-31-2016, 07:56 PM
I also don't think any of us are in a tizzy we're just concerned about a six-figure investment that we made

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Sarge
08-31-2016, 08:31 PM
Personally it wouldnt make a difference since I keep vehicles ten years or longer -

But it could have a major impact on insurance replacements....

Sarge

codycarver
08-31-2016, 08:58 PM
I'm sorry but if folks think any of these trailers are "investments" I've got a bridge to sell you. I knew going into these things it was a black hole and the more I spent the bigger the hole.

danemayer
08-31-2016, 08:59 PM
Whenever I look at used RV valuations, such as NADA, I notice that they differentiate between models and floorplans without too much trouble. Smaller RVs in a model family may not cost quite as much as larger RVs. How a rig is configured affects the value. Options affect the value. And of course each model has a reference price as a new vehicle.

Seems like Bighorn Traveler will have a distinct reference price, with distinct equipment and features. It probably won't be hard to tell what's what.

Noofear
08-31-2016, 09:21 PM
Sorry Cody but this was somewhat of an investment for me I sold my house and bought this. This is what I'm living in full time now I also realize it's going to go down in value over the time but the fact remains the initial investment is laid out

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codycarver
08-31-2016, 09:57 PM
Sorry Cody but this was somewhat of an investment for me I sold my house and bought this. This is what I'm living in full time now I also realize it's going to go down in value over the time but the fact remains the initial investment is laid out

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That would make it a depreciating asset. A title I think that was invented so folks didn't feel so bad when what they just bought went down in value 30% to 50% the moment they drove it off the lot. Either way, Heartland branding The Bighorn as a Traveler isn't going to make our trailers depreciate any more than if they branded it with the "Titanium Gold edition" will make them appreciate.

BigGuy82
08-31-2016, 10:34 PM
That would make it a depreciating asset.

Right. And the less it depreciates the better, right? And anything that may lead to any form of accellerated depreciation would be bad, meaning that those of us who are sensitive to such things have every right to be concerned. I didn't feel bad when the value dropped as soon as I drove it off the lot - I expect that (although I think 30% is about tops for me - if you're willing to take a 50% hit, I've got a bridge for you). What I don't expect is to find out 3 months after I bought that depreciating asset that a new "economy" version has just been introduced, especially after just being sold on the uber quality of the Bighorn. Do you think it is possible that the dealer knew the Traveler was coming while extolling the quality virtues of the Bighorn? Just sayin'.

Regarding these purchases being an investment, you really don't see it as such? I think it is. It's not an investment that I am expecting capital growth from, but it is something I intend to derive pleasure from and that I also expect to see a certain value from down the road when my heirs or I do decide to cash in. If you're going to keep it until the wheels fall off, great - you're in fat city. However, if your going to step up or cash out at some point, you should want it to be worth as much as possible. It seems to me that this is especially important to full timers who will likely be trading for a new home after a while. Do you think breeding a plow horse with a thoroughbred makes that bloodline more or less valuable?

I don't expect everyone to agree on this topic and I'm sure not losing any sleep over it. I'm just looking at facts and extrapolating the potential consequences of Heartland's marketing moves on me. This time, I really am stepping out of this thread - it's getting a bit circular - due in part to guys like me.

JohnD
08-31-2016, 10:56 PM
Gotta agree. BTW what's up with the furnace?

Not getting any spark . . .

And no tech help from Suburban, other than all they would tell me is that I need to have a repair tech diagnose the problem as they will only ship the warranty parts to an authorized repair tech.

I've got a couple of mobile repair techs I'm going to talk to tomorrow, although I may not worry about getting it fixed until after we get back from the Vegas Rally.

We have our Colorado HOC Rally in two weeks, and if we need heat I've got a couple of electric heaters in the Prowler to keep us warm through the end of our 2016 camping season (Vegas Rally).

- - - Updated - - -


What if they came out with the Prowler traveler and decided to sell it for $25,000 how would you feel about that your investment being cut in half by a new name cannibalizing what you thought was a steady product line

Prowler already has lower priced models than ours . . .

And anyone who hasn't traded in a two or three year old trailer yet . . .

Boy are you in for a BIG surprise when you see what the trade in value of your trailer will be!



And by the by . . . those who purchased 2016 Ford F350's should feel slighted since Ford just raised the bar with their 2017 models and made your 2016's obsolete!

Just sayin' . . .

TravelTiger
09-02-2016, 12:47 PM
Here it is updated on HL website: http://www.heartlandrvs.com/brands/fifthwheels/bighorn-traveler


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TravelTiger
09-02-2016, 12:58 PM
Also according to the website hiarachy, BigHorn Traveler is lower than a Gateway. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/416fc3f881edad5a04a7eef3987bf843.jpg


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TomMontague
09-08-2016, 10:07 AM
Just received latest addition of Trailer Life magazine and see Heartland has a add for a Bighorn Traveler 5th wheel. Is this a new model in the Bighorn line up,an upgrade version,a downgrade version or just a rebrand of the current Bighorn name.No details or specs in the add.
thanks....

Good morning everyone. Sorry for the long absence. It's been a busy summer as many of you have noticed and have commented on. There are some exciting changes, additions, and upgrades coming within the Bighorn franchise. Which brings me to the topic of the Bighorn Traveler.

As you know I've been given the keys to the Bighorn franchise and have been asked not only to maintain the current level of production but to ultimately increase it. When I sat back and reviewed the two products I was given one thing was obvious. Bighorn is rolling and doing well and Oakmont was struggling a bit. So I had to ask myself why. It was clear to me after consulting with dealers, potential retail customers, and reviewing web data on the brand Oakmont - clearly not many people know of or research the brand Oakmont. People may end up buying an Oakmont but it wasn't something people we searching from the beginning.

In order for me to grow the brand I feel my first priority is to change the name to something we know works, a brand name that leads the industry, one we have spent millions on as a company. When the Bachelor wants to do a spin off show, do they name it Bobs Beach Party? NO, they name it the Bachelor Beach Party because they know fans of the Bachelor will watch. I've basically employed the same marketing strategy and it's working very well. Dealers who were Bighorn dealers who were not Oakmont dealers have signed up and have taken product. Afterall, 1/2 the battle is just getting inventory on dealers lots. Goal #1 accomplished.

Goal#2: Make the new Traveler worthy of carrying the Bighorn name so it ENHANCES the franchise. Product upgrades such as raised graphics, drop frame for large pass thru storage, quad aluminum steps, industry leading Mor-Ryde suspension on Dexter axles. On the inside we changed the wood color from a limiting greyish wood color to the same wood color as the full blown Bighorn. We upgraded to MCD night shades, we upgraded lino & carpet, we decreased the overall height to help with towing and overall weight. Solid surface backsplash, upgraded lighting and complete redesigns of all floor plans have been key to the early successes. We dropped the Oakmont all together and expanded the Bighorn franchise. The Traveler is not a Bighorn and isn't meant to be. There are significant construction, standard, and option differences that keep a wide price separation between the two.

For those of you worried about resale & trade-in value. This will do nothing but help. These values are based on several factors - options, floor plan, condition, what you originally paid for it, and the overall market for your unit all factor in to these values. The more popular the brand, the more people are looking for used versions, the more money they are worth. My goal is to not only maintain our current overall market standing but to increase it significantly by opening up the Bighorn brands to a much bigger section of the market. SOB ( MT ) has the best resale & trade value in the industry - not because they are built any better - its because they sell way more NEW than everyone else in the market and therefore there are also more people looking for used ones... This is what we envision for Bighorn as well.

My ultimate goal would be to expand the Bighorn franchise into Stick and Tin, Ultra-Lite & Mid-Profiles. How great would this scenario be:

John Q Public said " We bought a Bighorn Inspired stick & tin and loved it.. Then we moved to a Bighorn MAAX Ultra Lite when we purchased our new Tahoe. Then we owned a Bighorn Traveler for the bunks when the kids were still at home. Now that everyone is out of the house, my wife and I have decided to treat ourselves to a full blown Bighorn. We've spent our entire camping life in the Bighorn family of products and we couldn't be more happy with our decision."

I'm sharing with you some of my thoughts and visions for the Bighorn franchise. In no way has this been talked about or even approved by management. These are just thoughts/visions/ideas I've been thinking about as I get used to my new position at Heartland.

As far as Bighorn goes - no major changes are scheduled for this year - the brand is doing well. Just small improvements across the board, new decors, some upgraded features like lighting and adding more ELITE slides to more floor plans on both the dinette & kitchen side of the coach. Some kitchen upgrades are coming as well and can be seen at the upcoming Hershey Show in PA next week.

I hope this helps shed some light on what's going on. Please don't think of it as Coke and New Coke, it's more like Coke & Diet Coke. One just has a few less ingredients than the other - they are made to coexist not replace one another.


Talk soon,
Tom

wehavefun
09-08-2016, 02:21 PM
Sorry Tom, I will argue this with you all day and all night if need be, new coke failed!! The plans to have the Bighorn Silverado had people complaining about the cheapness of the Bighorn! I know people that left Heartland because of the Silverado, so will go the same with Bighorn Traveler.

The problem here is Bighorn has a good reputation, so instead of making it great, someone too lazy to go forth and make a fair name for a lower quality piece like Oakmont just steals the name and destroys everything with the name Bighorn attached!

Great move, NOT!

I don't often go off but you just pushed my buttons by admitting to being too darn lazy to push a new product line. Yup, I am upset! In a few weeks there will be a Landmark Special, it will come from the Sundance line! Wait and see.

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SeattleLion
09-08-2016, 02:53 PM
My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.

Bones
09-08-2016, 02:56 PM
My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.
Isn't that what the overall name of Heartland is? It is the Dodge Ford Chevy with different models under it.

SeattleLion
09-08-2016, 03:09 PM
Isn't that what the overall name of Heartland is? It is the Dodge Ford Chevy with different models under it.

Actually, no. General Motors makes Chevy just as Heartland makes Bighorn.

wehavefun
09-08-2016, 03:21 PM
Chevrolet makes the Corvette

Chevrolet made the Chevette

Chevrolet didn't pass the Chevette off as a Corvette. Heartland is trying to pass off the Bighorn Traveler as a Bighorn to boost sales. It's not a Heartland Traveler, they had with Oakmont. They want to bring the sales price up for the Traveler without changing the value. The point you raise about not devaluation of your current Bighorn, well that depends on how many people think they are buying a Bighorn, get less than Bighorn quality and then tell their friends about Bighorn being low quality. If that happens a few hundred or thousand times your Bighorn will loose value my friend.


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codycarver
09-08-2016, 03:30 PM
My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.

Although I agree with the point you are making, Im not sure that using a bankrupt auto maker is the best way to illustrate it.

danemayer
09-08-2016, 03:48 PM
Soooooo,

There was a Bighorn Silverado not that long ago. And I'd guess there might have been similar marketing thoughts behind that name choice.

If the theory here is that sharing the brand name with a lesser product ruins the greater product, reducing value of the greater product, one might ask how much value was lost to Bighorn owners because of the Silverado.

Oddly, I don't recall anyone reporting that they lost money on their resale or trade because of the Silverado.

Did I miss something?

Noofear
09-08-2016, 06:51 PM
Since Landmark already uses names instead of model numbers why wasn't this The Landmark Traveler? Isn't the Landmark as popular and as well-liked as the Bighorn? Doesn't it have the same if not better image of quality and workmanship?

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Noofear
09-08-2016, 06:52 PM
Actually I think I know the answer to that you didn't want to cheapen The Landmark line

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SLO
09-08-2016, 09:33 PM
Thanks Tom for the explanation. Hope the new naming works out good for Heartland. My degree wasn't in marketing so I have no opinion one way or the other. However it works out, I still LOVE my Bighorn


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TomMontague
09-12-2016, 06:57 AM
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. One thing I can tell you is LAZY I am not. Next time visit a rally or Rv show, look me up. I would love to sit down with you face to face and discuss the long list of things I'm responsible for on a daily basis. In addition to multi-million dollar franchise called Bighorn. The decisions I make directly effect the lives of 400+ Elkhart and surrounding area families. The product decisions I make every day have to work. Nothing I do is taken lightly or done because I'm taking the easy way out or because I'm lazy. I have a lot of people counting on me.

It took a tremendous amount of work to develop a brand new product worthy of the Bighorn name at the Oakmont price point. This is just the beginning. Now the real work starts with the marketing and advertising campaign that needs to be developed and launched. Training manuals and sales education has to happen at hundreds of retail locations around the country before January 1st and the start of show season.

This is hardly a new concept. Montana brought out the Legacy and Non Lagacy package 2 years ago and sales have sky rocketed. I believe it's a strong move and I'm confident the new Bighorn Traveler is considerably better than the previous Oakmont and Silverado.

Talk soon,

Tom

Bones
09-12-2016, 07:53 AM
Tom,
Will the traveler be at the Hershey show?

SNOKING
09-12-2016, 08:22 AM
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. One thing I can tell you is LAZY I am not. Next time visit a rally or Rv show, look me up. I would love to sit down with you face to face and discuss the long list of things I'm responsible for on a daily basis. In addition to multi-million dollar franchise called Bighorn. The decisions I make directly effect the lives of 400+ Elkhart and surrounding area families. The product decisions I make every day have to work. Nothing I do is taken lightly or done because I'm taking the easy way out or because I'm lazy. I have a lot of people counting on me.

It took a tremendous amount of work to develop a brand new product worthy of the Bighorn name at the Oakmont price point. This is just the beginning. Now the real work starts with the marketing and advertising campaign that needs to be developed and launched. Training manuals and sales education has to happen at hundreds of retail locations around the country before January 1st and the start of show season.

This is hardly a new concept. Montana brought out the Legacy and Non Lagacy package 2 years ago and sales have sky rocketed. I believe it's a strong move and I'm confident the new Bighorn Traveler is considerably better than the previous Oakmont and Silverado.

Talk soon,

Tom

As a new owner of a 2017 BH3575el I feel a little betrayed. So you talk about your side of the table with 400+ lives, you ignore ours with thousands of people that by/bought your product. We did a lot of research and looking at just about everything out there is upper middle class 5th wheels before choosing the 3575el.

In my mind the lack of a rear cap is a big dividing factory in purchasing a trailer. If a manufacture wants to raise a model up in the customers eyes, then put a d@m rear cap on it. We would not even look at anything from Grand Design based on the lack of a rear cap. Montana's now have to be spec'd with legacy option to get a rear cap. La Mesa RV in Mesa, Az had Oakmonts on their lots, I would not walk in one.

With the industry trending away from rear caps, has anyone bothered to ask customers how they feel about this? It is much farther to have to ALWAYS walk around the front of a trailer because one can not stand to look at the cheap flat back. Without the rear cap it is NOT worthy of the Bighorn name.

Chris

MP_CS
09-12-2016, 09:14 AM
I for one am thrilled that this new model is coming out. I am probably the demographic that heartland is thinking of when they threw the idea of the traveler around. I will be in the market to upgrade in a few years and cannot spend 75-90k on a trailer that isn't used for full time. I was seriously looking into the Montana line as freinds we go with alot have them and they have so far been really nice units, so the fact that HL is going to have a model that will be basically directly comparable really pleases me. I also dont have any desire to have a molded rear cap as i dont like the looks of them but to each there own. I also think that resale for the upper line of bighorns wont be affected as most people searching for a high end used fifth wheel know what there looking at, i think everyone whos worried about that are worrying for no reason just my two cents though.

JohnD
09-12-2016, 09:46 AM
As a new owner of a 2017 BH3575el I feel a little betrayed. So you talk about your side of the table with 400+ lives, you ignore ours with thousands of people that by/bought your product. We did a lot of research and looking at just about everything out there is upper middle class 5th wheels before choosing the 3575el.

When I bought my new truck two years ago, there were a few features I passed up on as I felt the extra price was too steap.

When the 2016 models came out a year later, most of that stuff was included at no extra charge.

How is the Bighorn move any different?


With the industry trending away from rear caps, has anyone bothered to ask customers how they feel about this?

It is much farther to have to ALWAYS walk around the front of a trailer because one can not stand to look at the cheap flat back.

Without the rear cap it is NOT worthy of the Bighorn name.


Gee . . . thanks!

Now I have to go out and buy a new trailer! :(

47636

To be honest, I really like having a rear bumper.


Actually, I'm more upset about the cheap window shade in that big window on the big cheap flat back!

47637 47638
Original shade from the factory . . . . . . . . . . Replacement shade under warranty

wehavefun
09-12-2016, 04:59 PM
MP_CS

Not trying to get anything going here, I said my peace. I just want to point out to you that they are building this unit right now, it's called the Oakmont, it is not a new line or new idea. They are just trying to get people's attention by using a good and trusted product line. This is where I have the major issue. It is NOT a Bighorn, please don't confuse it as one. It was tried before with the Bighorn Silverado. It only gave Bighorn a black eye. I am certainly not trying to insult anyone or any line that Heartland builds, I had a Sundance, had no problems I wanted to move up in quality, I bought a Bighorn.

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TravelTiger
09-13-2016, 12:14 AM
We looked at the Bighorn Traveler at the ExploreUSA lunch event, during the North Texas Rally in Canton this weekend.

I am not saying I am "for" this, but trying to explain the concept behind it.

The Traveler does not compare AT ALL to a BigHorn, but I think it is definitely an upgraded "look" compared to an Oakmont.

In this case, ExploreUSA, one of the largest dealer networks in Texas, carries Landmark, BigHorn, BigCountry, Gateway, Sundance and Prowler. I think they did carry Oakmont. Now they'll be carrying BigHorn Traveler. At this location, they only had the Mid-Bunk style Travelers, but they are also carrying the rear den plan.

I think if you see how different they are, you'd understand they aren't "dragging down" the name, but creating a trust-factor. If an un-educated consumer sees "BigHorn" and has seen many other "BigHorn" trailers in parks and on the road, or read about them in Trailer Life, there is brand recognition, which hopefully builds a bridge to future investigation.

Personally, I don't have a clue about any of the "levels" of Montana. But when I hear it's a "Montana" it creates a reaction specific to that brand. In my case, a negative one, because I've never liked their interiors. :cool:

StrongJava
09-23-2016, 07:55 PM
Hi Erika,

Can you provide some bullets about what you saw that is different between the full profile Traveler and the luxury Bighorn?

Thanks.

Tim


We looked at the Bighorn Traveler at the ExploreUSA lunch event, during the North Texas Rally in Canton this weekend.

I am not saying I am "for" this, but trying to explain the concept behind it.

The Traveler does not compare AT ALL to a BigHorn, but I think it is definitely an upgraded "look" compared to an Oakmont.

In this case, ExploreUSA, one of the largest dealer networks in Texas, carries Landmark, BigHorn, BigCountry, Gateway, Sundance and Prowler. I think they did carry Oakmont. Now they'll be carrying BigHorn Traveler. At this location, they only had the Mid-Bunk style Travelers, but they are also carrying the rear den plan.

I think if you see how different they are, you'd understand they aren't "dragging down" the name, but creating a trust-factor. If an un-educated consumer sees "BigHorn" and has seen many other "BigHorn" trailers in parks and on the road, or read about them in Trailer Life, there is brand recognition, which hopefully builds a bridge to future investigation.

Personally, I don't have a clue about any of the "levels" of Montana. But when I hear it's a "Montana" it creates a reaction specific to that brand. In my case, a negative one, because I've never liked their interiors. :cool:

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the explanation.

As someone who was waiting for the new Bighorns and hoping you would add a real desk back in (like is in my current 2008 3670RL), should I read from your note below that this is not happening in the 2017 line of floor plans?

Tim

Good morning everyone. Sorry for the long absence. It's been a busy summer as many of you have noticed and have commented on. There are some exciting changes, additions, and upgrades coming within the Bighorn franchise. Which brings me to the topic of the Bighorn Traveler.

As you know I've been given the keys to the Bighorn franchise and have been asked not only to maintain the current level of production but to ultimately increase it. When I sat back and reviewed the two products I was given one thing was obvious. Bighorn is rolling and doing well and Oakmont was struggling a bit. So I had to ask myself why. It was clear to me after consulting with dealers, potential retail customers, and reviewing web data on the brand Oakmont - clearly not many people know of or research the brand Oakmont. People may end up buying an Oakmont but it wasn't something people we searching from the beginning.

In order for me to grow the brand I feel my first priority is to change the name to something we know works, a brand name that leads the industry, one we have spent millions on as a company. When the Bachelor wants to do a spin off show, do they name it Bobs Beach Party? NO, they name it the Bachelor Beach Party because they know fans of the Bachelor will watch. I've basically employed the same marketing strategy and it's working very well. Dealers who were Bighorn dealers who were not Oakmont dealers have signed up and have taken product. Afterall, 1/2 the battle is just getting inventory on dealers lots. Goal #1 accomplished.

Goal#2: Make the new Traveler worthy of carrying the Bighorn name so it ENHANCES the franchise. Product upgrades such as raised graphics, drop frame for large pass thru storage, quad aluminum steps, industry leading Mor-Ryde suspension on Dexter axles. On the inside we changed the wood color from a limiting greyish wood color to the same wood color as the full blown Bighorn. We upgraded to MCD night shades, we upgraded lino & carpet, we decreased the overall height to help with towing and overall weight. Solid surface backsplash, upgraded lighting and complete redesigns of all floor plans have been key to the early successes. We dropped the Oakmont all together and expanded the Bighorn franchise. The Traveler is not a Bighorn and isn't meant to be. There are significant construction, standard, and option differences that keep a wide price separation between the two.

For those of you worried about resale & trade-in value. This will do nothing but help. These values are based on several factors - options, floor plan, condition, what you originally paid for it, and the overall market for your unit all factor in to these values. The more popular the brand, the more people are looking for used versions, the more money they are worth. My goal is to not only maintain our current overall market standing but to increase it significantly by opening up the Bighorn brands to a much bigger section of the market. SOB ( MT ) has the best resale & trade value in the industry - not because they are built any better - its because they sell way more NEW than everyone else in the market and therefore there are also more people looking for used ones... This is what we envision for Bighorn as well.

My ultimate goal would be to expand the Bighorn franchise into Stick and Tin, Ultra-Lite & Mid-Profiles. How great would this scenario be:

John Q Public said " We bought a Bighorn Inspired stick & tin and loved it.. Then we moved to a Bighorn MAAX Ultra Lite when we purchased our new Tahoe. Then we owned a Bighorn Traveler for the bunks when the kids were still at home. Now that everyone is out of the house, my wife and I have decided to treat ourselves to a full blown Bighorn. We've spent our entire camping life in the Bighorn family of products and we couldn't be more happy with our decision."

I'm sharing with you some of my thoughts and visions for the Bighorn franchise. In no way has this been talked about or even approved by management. These are just thoughts/visions/ideas I've been thinking about as I get used to my new position at Heartland.

As far as Bighorn goes - no major changes are scheduled for this year - the brand is doing well. Just small improvements across the board, new decors, some upgraded features like lighting and adding more ELITE slides to more floor plans on both the dinette & kitchen side of the coach. Some kitchen upgrades are coming as well and can be seen at the upcoming Hershey Show in PA next week.

I hope this helps shed some light on what's going on. Please don't think of it as Coke and New Coke, it's more like Coke & Diet Coke. One just has a few less ingredients than the other - they are made to coexist not replace one another.


Talk soon,
Tom

Bones
09-23-2016, 07:57 PM
We looked at the Bighorn Traveler at the ExploreUSA lunch event, during the North Texas Rally in Canton this weekend.

I am not saying I am "for" this, but trying to explain the concept behind it.

The Traveler does not compare AT ALL to a BigHorn, but I think it is definitely an upgraded "look" compared to an Oakmont.

In this case, ExploreUSA, one of the largest dealer networks in Texas, carries Landmark, BigHorn, BigCountry, Gateway, Sundance and Prowler. I think they did carry Oakmont. Now they'll be carrying BigHorn Traveler. At this location, they only had the Mid-Bunk style Travelers, but they are also carrying the rear den plan.

I think if you see how different they are, you'd understand they aren't "dragging down" the name, but creating a trust-factor. If an un-educated consumer sees "BigHorn" and has seen many other "BigHorn" trailers in parks and on the road, or read about them in Trailer Life, there is brand recognition, which hopefully builds a bridge to future investigation.

Personally, I don't have a clue about any of the "levels" of Montana. But when I hear it's a "Montana" it creates a reaction specific to that brand. In my case, a negative one, because I've never liked their interiors. :cool:
I too walked into a traveler. I noticed a considerable difference. The front bedroom felt smaller.

TravelTiger
09-23-2016, 09:26 PM
Hi Erika,

Can you provide some bullets about what you saw that is different between the full profile Traveler and the luxury Bighorn?

Thanks.

Tim

Tim, the Traveler is essentially the same as the Oakmont, if you ever looked at that. What they've done is add some of the same features found in a full Bighorn.

We went to the Dallas RV Show, and they of course were showing this new line off. I saw a family with a teen getting their pic taken as they had purchased the mid-bunk model. The salesman said "Say Bighorn!" as he took their picture.

It showed really well when all lit up on display, but to the knowledgeable eye, it's not a Bighorn.

A few things we saw:
The kitchen countertops (except for the edge), cabinetry color and style look like a Bighorn. However, I noticed that other surfaces that would be solid surface are instead formica.
The woodwork details in columns around the entertainment center were different.
The bathroom sink is plastic drop-in, not a smooth undermount. (countertop was formica)
The closet and other doors are not the quality of the Bighorn.
Not as much bedroom cabinetry as a BigHorn.
The slideouts are not as tall as in a Bighorn.
No paneled ceiling or wood coffers like the Bighorn.
The bedroom ceiling slopes more towards the front cap and the bed slideout was much shorter. (reminded us of our ElkRidge)
Some of the high cabinetry (above seating, etc.) did not have lift shocks.
NO Whisper quiet AC, so you see the big white grate on the ceiling.
Chair rail is simpler looking.
Cabinetry "glass inserts" are different.
Smaller residential fridge.
Single bowl sink in kitchen.
No carpet in the living room (all vinyl).
I think they have same carpet in the basement that are on the walls of the basement.

Remember that this unit is 3 steps below a Bighorn on the hierarchy:

Bighorn
BigCountry
Gateway
Bighorn Traveler

StrongJava
09-24-2016, 10:27 AM
Thank you Erika. I asked because, as I've posted before, we're looking for a new coach but it has to have the desk or a layout that we like AND that lets me put in a desk. And I really would like to avoid >40'. When I saw the Traveler, it caught my eye. However, I think the lack of whisper quiet AC is a show stopper for me, especially being in South Central Texas as much as we are! :-)

TravelTiger
09-24-2016, 03:17 PM
Thank you Erika. I asked because, as I've posted before, we're looking for a new coach but it has to have the desk or a layout that we like AND that lets me put in a desk. And I really would like to avoid >40'. When I saw the Traveler, it caught my eye. However, I think the lack of whisper quiet AC is a show stopper for me, especially being in South Central Texas as much as we are! :-)

I think if you want a fulltimers RV, I would stick to those designed and warranted for it: BigHorn, Big Country, and of course Landmark.

I can vouch for our rear den configuration as one that adapts very well to adding desk. (BigCountry 4010RD) But it is 42' I believe. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/82b5c9b02ec446a6c1f509b3b179e67c.jpg


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StrongJava
09-25-2016, 10:35 AM
Hi Erika,

Yes, we exchanged some messages early this year or last fall about this. While a possibility, we don't like the length or the fact that there isn't a rear window. I'd be okay with the rear TV if it was on a lift and we could have the light and view when not watching it.

I went through the 3D view online, and did not see a designated pantry?

Right now, if Heartland doesn't come out with a desk option in one of the top three brands, we'll either go with the Bighorn 3760 and heavily modify the desk area or we'll search for a brand that better suits our needs. I'm not crazy about either path.

That said, we have some other high priority things right now, like selling our Virginia house and some health issues.

Tim

TravelTiger
09-25-2016, 04:15 PM
Hi Erika,

Yes, we exchanged some messages early this year or last fall about this. While a possibility, we don't like the length or the fact that there isn't a rear window. I'd be okay with the rear TV if it was on a lift and we could have the light and view when not watching it.

I went through the 3D view online, and did not see a designated pantry?

Right now, if Heartland doesn't come out with a desk option in one of the top three brands, we'll either go with the Bighorn 3760 and heavily modify the desk area or we'll search for a brand that better suits our needs. I'm not crazy about either path.

That said, we have some other high priority things right now, like selling our Virginia house and some health issues.

Tim

The BigHorn 3950RD might be more to your liking. A true pantry and the tv on a lift with rear window.



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WBG
09-25-2016, 08:07 PM
Hi Erika,

Yes, we exchanged some messages early this year or last fall about this. While a possibility, we don't like the length or the fact that there isn't a rear window. I'd be okay with the rear TV if it was on a lift and we could have the light and view when not watching it.

I went through the 3D view online, and did not see a designated pantry?

Right now, if Heartland doesn't come out with a desk option in one of the top three brands, we'll either go with the Bighorn 3760 and heavily modify the desk area or we'll search for a brand that better suits our needs. I'm not crazy about either path.

That said, we have some other high priority things right now, like selling our Virginia house and some health issues.

Tim

We have the 3570 and it had a super great pantry, a slide out desk surface that works great to me and is only 38" long

jmgratz
09-25-2016, 08:41 PM
I guess I look at the Bighorn issue like GM and Ford marked some of their vehicles. Example, the Ford Crown Victoria was not much more than a stripped down Mercury or the Chevy Impala was a Stripped down Cadillac. The biggest difference is both vehicles like in the Ford example were made by Ford and the Chevy example made by GM. Now in the Bighorn example both products are made by Heartland so to follow the same line of thinking the Oakmont was a stripped down Bighorn? Not.. Seems to me like after awhile the brands compete against themselves such as the Bighorn has gotten into the Luxury RV market so much it compete with the Landmark. The Big Country has been upgraded to the point it takes away Bighorn customers. At one time there was a real distinction between the brands. No more. Maybe it is time to go back to the distinction and not compete against itself.

StrongJava
09-26-2016, 10:37 AM
Hi Jim--

I think what you're saying make sense. I'd rather see less lines and more variety in floor plans. There are five different lines in the Full-Profile class, and three in the Luxury class. I don't get it.

Apple, Inc, under Steve Jobs, really drove that point home. Simplify the product line, lead the customer (innovation), and knock the quality out of the park. You do that, and you can charge a premium.

It is disappointing to me that even though there are so many lines and floor plans, I would still have to "settle" on a new RV. Baffles me.
Tim


I guess I look at the Bighorn issue like GM and Ford marked some of their vehicles. Example, the Ford Crown Victoria was not much more than a stripped down Mercury or the Chevy Impala was a Stripped down Cadillac. The biggest difference is both vehicles like in the Ford example were made by Ford and the Chevy example made by GM. Now in the Bighorn example both products are made by Heartland so to follow the same line of thinking the Oakmont was a stripped down Bighorn? Not.. Seems to me like after awhile the brands compete against themselves such as the Bighorn has gotten into the Luxury RV market so much it compete with the Landmark. The Big Country has been upgraded to the point it takes away Bighorn customers. At one time there was a real distinction between the brands. No more. Maybe it is time to go back to the distinction and not compete against itself.

SNOKING
09-26-2016, 10:51 AM
Except premium price trailers, think Hitchhiker, Excel, Carriage and others could not make it in the long run. We felt that the Bighorn was a nice balance between cost and what you got for it. When we bought it after a lot of research and looking we planned to just snowbird. Then someone offered to buy our home which was not on the market. So now we are living in it and may buy a park model in Arizona park and just sunbird in it.

Bones
09-30-2016, 10:13 AM
Why does the Bighorn Traveler have a dropped frame?

TravelTiger
09-30-2016, 12:48 PM
Why does the Bighorn Traveler have a dropped frame?

Probably for storage. It creates a bigger basement.


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Bones
09-30-2016, 01:20 PM
Probably for storage. It creates a bigger basement.


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I'm asking because none of the other trailer has a drop frame in the same category

Shortest Straw
09-30-2016, 05:34 PM
So I am guessing the Oakmont line is going away completely?

TravelTiger
09-30-2016, 09:07 PM
So I am guessing the Oakmont line is going away completely?

Yes, I believe Tom Montague said the Oakmont is discontinued and the Bighorn Traveler is taking its place.


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JohnD
09-30-2016, 10:35 PM
So I am guessing the Oakmont line is going away completely?


Yes, I believe Tom Montague said the Oakmont is discontinued and the Bighorn Traveler is taking its place.


I believe that Jim B. talked about this at the Mountaindale Rally as well.

Shortest Straw
10-01-2016, 10:22 AM
Yes, I believe Tom Montague said the Oakmont is discontinued and the Bighorn Traveler is taking its place.


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That's unfortunate. We get compliments on ours all the time. Strangers asking to look inside. The most common comment was that folks didn't know the even existed. If you look on the Heartland Facebook page I don't think they know either.


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dkelly243
12-09-2016, 09:29 PM
Good evening to all. I just purchased a traveler yesterday. 37ss model. I was in the same boat as most of you guys about 3 weeks ago. Had a deal worked out on a BH3875FB model. The intres rate came back higher than we agreed upon and I backed out of the deal. Here was my reasoning for going with the traveler. I will not be retired for 3 to 5 years. Hence we will probably use rv about 8 to 10 times a year for weekend trips. So instead of spending xx,000 I spent yy,000 knowing I will be upgrading in 4 years or so. Make know mistake, I am fully aware my rv is not the hogh end bighorn. I didn't buy it to try to fool myself into believing I hAve a bighorn. I bought it because it's a nice rv and we love the extra slide in the bedroom. I promise if ever parked next to a real "Bighorn" while camping I will tape a towel over the Bighorn name on the front cap.:cool:

Oregon_Camper
12-09-2016, 09:55 PM
.... I promise if ever parked next to a real "Bighorn" while camping I will tape a towel over the Bighorn name on the front cap.:cool:


You can PROUDLY park your Bighorn next to mine anytime.....and leave your towel in the trailer!

Mrsfish
12-09-2016, 10:11 PM
You can PROUDLY park your Bighorn next to mine anytime.....and leave your towel in the trailer!

amen!! Welcome aboard- hope to meet you down the road!

aRAYwego
12-09-2016, 10:21 PM
Good evening to all. I just purchased a traveler yesterday. 37ss model. I was in the same boat as most of you guys about 3 weeks ago. Had a deal worked out on a BH3875FB model. The intres rate came back higher than we agreed upon and I backed out of the deal. Here was my reasoning for going with the traveler. I will not be retired for 3 to 5 years. Hence we will probably use rv about 8 to 10 times a year for weekend trips. So instead of spending xx,000 I spent yy,000 knowing I will be upgrading in 4 years or so. Make know mistake, I am fully aware my rv is not the hogh end bighorn. I didn't buy it to try to fool myself into believing I hAve a bighorn. I bought it because it's a nice rv and we love the extra slide in the bedroom. I promise if ever parked next to a real "Bighorn" while camping I will tape a towel over the Bighorn name on the front cap.:cool:



You can park your BH Traveler next to my LM anytime. I'm more interested in talking to you than your trailer anyway.:p BTW welcome to the group!!!!

TravelTiger
12-10-2016, 12:20 AM
Welcome to the Heartland family! It doesn't matter what rig you got, you got the best brand!


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JohnD
12-10-2016, 08:59 AM
A Bighorn is a Bighorn, no matter what the model number is.

And you can park it next to our Prowler anytime!

jbeletti
12-10-2016, 10:37 AM
...I promise if ever parked next to a real "Bighorn" while camping I will tape a towel over the Bighorn name on the front cap.:cool:

No need to do this friend... You will be welcomed with open-arms by all Heartlanders - especially those who are club members. Club members have a special bond. You might want to check into it. Hope to camp next to you sometime in the next couple of years.

HOOKERUP
12-10-2016, 10:52 AM
No need to do this friend... You will be welcomed with open-arms by all Heartlanders - especially those who are club members. Club members have a special bond. You might want to check into it. Hope to camp next to you sometime in the next couple of years.
Since we have been members of the club,we have never seen, anyone say there rig is nicer,or cost more than your's comments. We do not care what someone pays,or what year it is,or what model they have,you will be welcomed.

aRAYwego
12-10-2016, 02:05 PM
Since we have been members of the club,we have never seen, anyone say there rig is nicer,or cost more than your's comments. We do not care what someone pays,or what year it is,or what model they have,you will be welcomed.

Well said!

dkelly243
12-10-2016, 07:45 PM
I was just trying to get a rise out of a couple of the earlier posters. No worries guys, I pick up the BH traveler on Dec 20th. Hope to see everyone on the road.