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Mattman
09-01-2016, 05:53 PM
So Michigan has a new law where in the lower areas you can hunt with strait Cartridge guns. IE pistol rounds. Wondering if any one has any first hand experience with these rifles. I really like .460 S&W but having a hard time finding one to look at. Not sure about the ammo cost on these. I'm looking for something to hunt deer with up to 200yds. The standard .44 seems good out to 150yds from what I read and decent ammo prices. But looking for a little more. Law says the cartridge can't be more than 1.8" long.
Any one with some experience?

Jim.Allison
09-01-2016, 06:48 PM
Can't have cake and eat it too. To knock down a Michigan white tail deer is not a problem for the 44 mag, its that you cannot have the energy at 200 yards to kill one. 100 yards maybe. At 200 yards, energy and bullet drop forbid it. If you want something unique and fairly inexpensive, look at the 444 Marlin, 1600 + or - @ 200 yards, straight walled cartridge, great lever action rifle. I have seen Michigan White tailed deer, and there is no way that I would shoot one with a pistol cartridge out of a rifle. You should really be looking at a 30-06, it is probably the best "all around" rifle for North America. You can use a sabot round for varmints, and you can load up with a 180 grain, and shoot anything short of a Grizzly or Kodiak with a 30-06 (Caution; do not shoot a Kodiak or Grizzly with a 30-06.)

So Michigan has a new law where in the lower areas you can hunt with strait Cartridge guns. IE pistol rounds. Wondering if any one has any first hand experience with these rifles. I really like .460 S&W but having a hard time finding one to look at. Not sure about the ammo cost on these. I'm looking for something to hunt deer with up to 200yds. The standard .44 seems good out to 150yds from what I read and decent ammo prices. But looking for a little more. Law says the cartridge can't be more than 1.8" long.
Any one with some experience?

alexb2000
09-01-2016, 07:14 PM
Assuming a lever gun with a 230 grain factory load, 20" barrel, you can get 1600-1700 out of the barrel with a .44, but the heavy bullet really falls off way out there. Not much knockdown energy left at 200.

https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics_calculator/

This is a fun tool to play with.

Sarge
09-01-2016, 11:18 PM
I've hunted boar with lever actions in 44Mag and 357Mag - But never outside 100 yard shots. Depending on humidity / wind / etc - I would keep shots sub 100 yards for deer also.

My personal choice for white tail / big horn / boar is the 6.8SPC AR15 I built a few seasons back.

Now 650 yard shots pulling the bang switch on a 338WMag to drop an elk is more my choice anyway...

Sarge

JWalker
09-02-2016, 06:51 AM
The 444 Matlin is a stout little lever gun. Based on a lengthened 44 mag casing.

Just was was shooting a friends Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull. It packed quite an impressive punch. At both ends. Lol. Not sure how it would do out in the 200 yard range.

KenandKK
09-02-2016, 07:43 AM
With a 1.8 inch cartridge length, they don't give you much to work with. Have you considered a Ultimate Muzzle loader? I think Remington is making them now... good to 400 yds.

Mattman
09-02-2016, 03:18 PM
Well. Muzzleloaders require someone who is good at cleaning there gun. Not me. The .444 is to long a cartridge. I might just have to order a .460.

JWalker
09-02-2016, 03:37 PM
Put a 45/70 barrel on a Thompson Center Contender
http://i68.tinypic.com/211jgow.jpg

Lynn1130
09-02-2016, 03:42 PM
Now 650 yard shots pulling the bang switch on a 338WMag to drop an elk is more my choice anyway

That is about a 102" drop in with what is normally a big bear gun.

KenandKK
09-02-2016, 06:24 PM
Well. Muzzleloaders require someone who is good at cleaning there gun. Not me. The .444 is to long a cartridge. I might just have to order a .460.

I have to agree... with what you have to work with (legal) I think the 460 would be a good choice. Hornady make's a pointed factory load that might be good for longer range's. I would have to do some 'wet' phone books at 200yds. to see how they open up, before I'd use them for game.
One more thing.... the Ultimate Muzzle loader use's smokeless powder, case you didn't know. Not quite as dirty! A friend of mine hunts in Ohio with one and takes deer at 300+ yards.

Jim.Allison
09-02-2016, 10:33 PM
The 444 is a rifle cartridge, although straight walled is completely legal to hunt deer in Michigan. The straight walled law is written for pistol bullets fired out of a rifle, not straight walled rifle bullets.
Well. Muzzleloaders require someone who is good at cleaning there gun. Not me. The .444 is to long a cartridge. I might just have to order a .460.

Sarge
09-03-2016, 02:00 AM
That is about a 102" drop in with what is normally a big bear gun.

Actually apx 80" with 225gr hyper ammo depending on conditions....

Sarge

Lynn1130
09-03-2016, 09:43 AM
Actually apx 80" with 225gr hyper ammo depending on conditions....

Is there any edible meat left on the elk? ;)

Sarge
09-03-2016, 11:37 AM
Is there any edible meat left on the elk? ;)

Hahaha - Yeah. Plus we don't have to track it too far....

Sarge

660griz
09-15-2016, 01:52 PM
Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun with Hornady Leverevolutions.

Mattman
09-17-2016, 09:25 AM
The 444 is a rifle cartridge, although straight walled is completely legal to hunt deer in Michigan. The straight walled law is written for pistol bullets fired out of a rifle, not straight walled rifle bullets.

Jim,
The law does state that the cartridge casing lenght can't not be longer than 1.8". I liked the .444 but the shell casing is 2.25" long which exceeds the legal length in the lower half of Michigan. It is fine for the northern parts of Michigan. The 45/70 is out down here as well.

- - - Updated - - -


I have to agree... with what you have to work with (legal) I think the 460 would be a good choice. Hornady make's a pointed factory load that might be good for longer range's. I would have to do some 'wet' phone books at 200yds. to see how they open up, before I'd use them for game.
One more thing.... the Ultimate Muzzle loader use's smokeless powder, case you didn't know. Not quite as dirty! A friend of mine hunts in Ohio with one and takes deer at 300+ yards.

My frustration with this was the fouling from the bullet cassing. The plastic debrie would mess with accuracy. The one I had was a lot of work to get the breach plug out abd took forever to sight it in, and never felt confident beyond 70 yards any way. I am sure a better gun would fix this. But since I am not good at cleaning them, I don't want to ruin it..

Scottz
03-19-2017, 01:24 PM
If you want some serious power and range from a carbine in a pistol cartridge, check out the +P ammo offered by Buffalo Bore.

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