Switched From Timbrens To Air Lifts

BigGuy82 · Nov 25, 2016

Got back from a 6,000 "maiden voyage" with my new F350 diesel dually (2016). Prior to leaving, I installed Timbrens as they got good reviews. Here's my experience:

If you are looking for jounce reduction, the Timbrens do a good job. HOWEVER, while towing my Bighorn 3010 RE, the tail end of the truck dipped down about an inch, which was enough to throw the headlights off - it was literally difficult to see on country roads at night and I kept getting bright light flashes from on-coming traffic. I have a Crew Cab and long bed with a 172" WB, so an inch down in the tail translates to a noticeable lift in the front. My pin weight was well below the max for the truck and verified on a CAT scale.

Solution: off came the Timbrens and on went new Air Lift 5000 Ultimates. These add internal jounce stops, giving you the jounce reduction of Timbrens and the leveling capabilities of Air Lifts. I haven't tried them under load yet, but I don't see what could possibly not be great about this product. Obviously, I'll update this thread after putting the rig under load.

mlpeloquin · Nov 25, 2016

I have the Air Lift and could not be happier. Headlight level, and ride were the main reason. Then I change out the pin box to Trailair Flex Air. What a difference! Would not be without either one.

Jim.Allison · Nov 25, 2016

I have the Airlift with internal jounce, and the Trailer Saver hitch. To me it is the ideal setup. When unloaded, I reduce the pressure to around 12lbs, and deflate the rear tires to the unloaded pressure, the ride is great. It take very little pressure in the airbags, 25 to 35 psi, to get the rake that I like for towing. I believe that a air hitch and airbag combo is the best way to eliminate "chucking."

alwaysbusy · Nov 25, 2016

X2 on what Jim said. I have the same identical setup (i.e. TS3 & Airlift 5k Ultimate). Great combination.

IronJ · Nov 25, 2016

Ive ran both and while the timbrens are a cheap kinda fix for some trailers, the airlift are on another level (but more expensive)..

The main reason i switched was just as you...i installed 55w hid projectors and the rear sag blinded EVERYONE and on top of that reduced my field of view....

The truck actually rode decent sans bags, but the improvement WITH bags was amazing..much more plush ride and stable rear end....

I do still feel that even unloaded and at 0 psi the ride is rougher than stock....but lets be real...

Its a LIFTED 1 ton dually, 4x4 on 22" wheels and 35" mt tires...??.given that it actually rides REALLY good...

You will love the bags ...when the pressure is juuuuust right the trailer just floats back there

sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish

Jim.Allison · Nov 26, 2016

IronJ said:
I do still feel that even unloaded and at 0 psi the ride is rougher than stock....but lets be real...

I understand that you should never run an airbag at 0 psi, the reason I have heard is that the bag must be able to respond to the axle movement. I seem to remember a 10 psi minimum being the figure stated on my installation instructions. Might be less though, I can't remember exactly. But I run 10 and get a great ride.

Gary521 · Nov 26, 2016

Jim.Allison said:
I understand that you should never run an airbag at 0 psi, the reason I have heard is that the bag must be able to respond to the axle movement. I seem to remember a 10 psi minimum being the figure stated on my installation instructions. Might be less though, I can't remember exactly. But I run 10 and get a great ride.

The manufacturer claims that's the air bags with internal jousts can run with 0 air pressure. However, I have the wireless compressor and the system itself will not let you go below 5psi.

mlpeloquin · Nov 26, 2016

Jim.Allison said:
I understand that you should never run an airbag at 0 psi, the reason I have heard is that the bag must be able to respond to the axle movement. I seem to remember a 10 psi minimum being the figure stated on my installation instructions. Might be less though, I can't remember exactly. But I run 10 and get a great ride.

I run with 10psi unloaded. But, with the joist internal to the air bags, I believe 0 psi is not a problem.

https://www.airliftcompany.com/products/air-springs/loadlifter-5000-ultimate/

IronJ · Nov 26, 2016

Jim.Allison said:
I understand that you should never run an airbag at 0 psi, the reason I have heard is that the bag must be able to respond to the axle movement. I seem to remember a 10 psi minimum being the figure stated on my installation instructions. Might be less though, I can't remember exactly. But I run 10 and get a great ride.

Nah...with the 5000 ultimate bags with internal bumper you can run zero as the bumper prevents bag damage that could otherwise occur....

That said, and given the aftermarket springs and suspension my truck has, it rides way better at zero psi unloaded..

On my srw i can run 5-10 and its negligible as to ride quality...

But there in lies the beauty of a bag system...it can be adjusted to any level necessary.

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alwaysbusy · Nov 26, 2016

When I installed mine, I questioned the same thing and called Airlift to discuss. They stated exactly as you all are discussing. With the standard air bag system, a minimum of 5lbs is required; however, with internal jounce in the ultimate it may be ran at zero. Depending on how it's setup though (i.e. wireless control), one may have to settle for 5lbs as their low instead of 0.

Mrsfish · Nov 26, 2016

IronJ- what compressor did you use?

IronJ · Nov 26, 2016

Viair 100c...

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Jim.Allison · Nov 26, 2016

I heard that the 5 psi was to insure that the bags responded to the axle. If you have 0 psi when the axle is upset it will oscillate the bag between a negative pressure/vacuum, and a positive pressure. With a minor amount of pressure the bag will tend to follow the axle without being jerked around, and some pressure will always exist during the axel travel. Firestone says to prevent damage by maintaining 5 psi, and deflating when the vehicle frame is raised.

AirLift FAQ https://www.airliftcompany.com/support/faqs/

Q. Do I always have to keep the air springs inflated? How much pressure do I need?A. Yes, you should always maintain the recommended minimum air pressure of 5 PSI, even if your vehicle isn’t loaded. This keeps the air springs “in shape” and able to perform without rubbing or wearing.

http://riderite.com/-/media/www/riderite/files/Install Manuals/W217602430_RRInstallManual_EN.pdf

alwaysbusy · Nov 26, 2016

Jim.Allison said:
I heard that the 5 psi was to insure that the bags responded to the axle. If you have 0 psi when the axle is upset it will oscillate the bag between a negative pressure/vacuum, and a positive pressure. With a minor amount of pressure the bag will tend to follow the axle without being jerked around, and some pressure will always exist during the axel travel. Firestone says to prevent damage by maintaining 5 psi, and deflating when the vehicle frame is raised.

AirLift FAQ https://www.airliftcompany.com/support/faqs/

Q. Do I always have to keep the air springs inflated? How much pressure do I need?A. Yes, you should always maintain the recommended minimum air pressure of 5 PSI, even if your vehicle isn’t loaded. This keeps the air springs “in shape” and able to perform without rubbing or wearing.

http://riderite.com/-/media/www/riderite/files/Install Manuals/W217602430_RRInstallManual_EN.pdf

I read the same Mr. Jim, they explained the ability to run with 0 by the existence of the internal jounce and the 5000's inability to be fully compressed like standard bags. Not saying I would do, but that's just how they explained it to me.

BigGuy82 · Dec 1, 2016

alwaysbusy said:
I read the same Mr. Jim, they explained the ability to run with 0 by the existence of the internal jounce and the 5000's inability to be fully compressed like standard bags. Not saying I would do, but that's just how they explained it to me.

From the Air Lift Load Lifter 5000 Ultimate Manual (MN-979), (p.27) - Minimum Recommended Pressure - 5 PSI. Maximum Air Pressure - 100 PSI.

IronJ · Dec 1, 2016

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BigGuy82 · Dec 1, 2016

IronJ said:
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish

I don't know - do you think I'm making this stuff up? Here is a picture of the page from the instruction manual that was included with my new Air Lifts. Note the information in RED at the top of the page. Perhaps you should check your source? Is it from Air Lift or some vendor?

IronJ · Dec 1, 2016

The correct install manual is
MN-824-88369 for our springs

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IronJ · Dec 1, 2016

Page 29

The 5 psi "recommendation" is based on the minimum for lifting the vehicle by the frame...it has no effect on bag performance nor is required...basically if you leave 5 you will never forget...

None the less zero is fine...so is 5...i wasnt saying you were making up anything

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BigGuy82 · Dec 1, 2016

IronJ said:
The correct install manual is
MN-824-88369 for our springs

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For mine (the book that came in the LoadLifter 5000 Ultimate box), it is MN-979. The book is included in Kit #88396. I'm sure the kit hasn't been on the shelf a long time - I got it from eTrailer. They are made for the Ford Super Duty trucks of our vintage (mine is a 2016). Don't know what the difference is. However, I just went to their website which states what you posted - not a consistent message. It will be an interesting phone call tomorrow.

Switched From Timbrens To Air Lifts

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