Landmark - Hydraulic hose / fitting failures

BillGott

Member
My 2015 Charleston is sitting in a campground on the west side of Lake Okeechobee in Florida with yet another blown hydraulic line. This on appears to be for one of the rooms because fluid is running out of the belly pan and rooms and jacks will not move. We have had 3 lines replaced and 3 new ends put on by a mobile hydraulic repair company. I do not hold out much hope that the dealer will be any help as they don't seem to be able to get much on the unit fixed right anyway. Please call me.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

My 2015 Charleston is sitting in a campground on the west side of Lake Okeechobee in Florida with yet another blown hydraulic line. This on appears to be for one of the rooms because fluid is running out of the belly pan and rooms and jacks will not move. We have had 3 lines replaced and 3 new ends put on by a mobile hydraulic repair company. I do not hold out much hope that the dealer will be any help as they don't seem to be able to get much on the unit fixed right anyway. Please call me.

Don't have a clue what is going wrong there, but for peace of mind and since you've already popped 3 of these things, I'd replace them all. At the end of the day, I believe overkill is the best course of action.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Bill,

There's no one person at the factory who sits by a computer and a phone to respond to requests like this. You should call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030. Have your VIN # ready.

Explain the history of hydraulic line problems. If your dealer processed warranty claims in detail, they'll already know about all the repairs. If you've had several hydraulic hoses fail, it might be reasonable to ask for proactive replacement of all remaining hoses.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Bill - sorry for the trouble you've had with hydraulic lines/fittings.

I agree with Dan here - time to make the call to Heartland on Monday morning and have a chat. It's difficult to know what the root cause has been and whether you'll have trouble with the rest of the lines/fittings. Wishing you all the best in getting this sorted.
 

SLO

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

I feel your frustration. I've had to replace 5 hoses on our 2016 Bighorn


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

BillGott

Member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

I am sorry for venting on this forum. I will be talking to the factory tomorrow. My wife and I love our 5th wheel but believe the Dealer is a liar and is totally incompetent. We talked with some factory people last Thursday at the Tampa RV show but that was before this latest hydraulic failure. A brief history. 6 weeks after purchasing the unit we made an appointment with the dealer to fix some minor issues. After hooking up the camper and starting to retract the jacks I noticed they were not retracting but instead had a 6 foot puddle of red fluid under the middle jack on the drivers side. Upon inspection one line had blown off the fitting and the second line had a bubble the size of a quarter in it that was dripping. The dealer told me they had no one to come down and fix it to just hire a mobile hydraulic hose company and they would reimburse me. The company came and repaired those 2 hose ends and in checking found one on the opposite side with another bubble that was dripping also. They told me whoever had crimped the hose ends had a tool that was not calibrated properly and the crimps were not tight enough. They said the factory should replace all the hoses so I would not have trouble in the future. Informed the dealer of this when I got there and gave them pictures of the fittings, hose ends and a write up sheet from the hydraulic hose company. I was told it was done 2 weeks later and I could pick it up. Only 2 items were fixed on the list and they said they could see noting wrong with the hoses and the factory would not allow them to be changed out. 6 months later we dropped off camper with fluid leaking out of a bubble in the fitting connection in the middle jack from the line that did not have a new fitting put on. There also was fluid leaking out of the belly pan so one of the fittings on the DR slide out was leaking. They replaced 2 lines and again said the factory would approve no more. We have has small amounts of fluid leaking out of belly pan again so we were going to make an appointment and take it in again. Did not make it as it is now an immovable object with 4 gallons of transmission fluid up in the pan slowly dripping out. This is just one problem I could right 12 pages on the lack of expertise on the dealers part but I can give one quick example. No satellite signal was getting in from the living room hookup to the cabinet next to the living area TV. I changed both fitting ends but testing still showed an open circuit on both ends. I gave this information to the dealer who replaced a splitter and declared the problem fixed. Nope then the 2nd try and it came back with nothing wrong. I finally refused to pick up the unit until they could show me a signal. The tech pulled the RG6 from the bundle under the slideout and one end came out of the the floor. It was never connected from the factory. I now can get satellite in the living room but had to connect all the tv antenna connection back up as the unscrewed all of them for what I have no idea.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

I am sorry for venting on this forum. I will be talking to the factory tomorrow. My wife and I love our 5th wheel but believe the Dealer is a liar and is totally incompetent. We talked with some factory people last Thursday at the Tampa RV show but that was before this latest hydraulic failure. A brief history. 6 weeks after purchasing the unit we made an appointment with the dealer to fix some minor issues. After hooking up the camper and starting to retract the jacks I noticed they were not retracting but instead had a 6 foot puddle of red fluid under the middle jack on the drivers side. Upon inspection one line had blown off the fitting and the second line had a bubble the size of a quarter in it that was dripping. The dealer told me they had no one to come down and fix it to just hire a mobile hydraulic hose company and they would reimburse me. The company came and repaired those 2 hose ends and in checking found one on the opposite side with another bubble that was dripping also. They told me whoever had crimped the hose ends had a tool that was not calibrated properly and the crimps were not tight enough. They said the factory should replace all the hoses so I would not have trouble in the future. Informed the dealer of this when I got there and gave them pictures of the fittings, hose ends and a write up sheet from the hydraulic hose company. I was told it was done 2 weeks later and I could pick it up. Only 2 items were fixed on the list and they said they could see noting wrong with the hoses and the factory would not allow them to be changed out. 6 months later we dropped off camper with fluid leaking out of a bubble in the fitting connection in the middle jack from the line that did not have a new fitting put on. There also was fluid leaking out of the belly pan so one of the fittings on the DR slide out was leaking. They replaced 2 lines and again said the factory would approve no more. We have has small amounts of fluid leaking out of belly pan again so we were going to make an appointment and take it in again. Did not make it as it is now an immovable object with 4 gallons of transmission fluid up in the pan slowly dripping out. This is just one problem I could right 12 pages on the lack of expertise on the dealers part but I can give one quick example. No satellite signal was getting in from the living room hookup to the cabinet next to the living area TV. I changed both fitting ends but testing still showed an open circuit on both ends. I gave this information to the dealer who replaced a splitter and declared the problem fixed. Nope then the 2nd try and it came back with nothing wrong. I finally refused to pick up the unit until they could show me a signal. The tech pulled the RG6 from the bundle under the slideout and one end came out of the the floor. It was never connected from the factory. I now can get satellite in the living room but had to connect all the tv antenna connection back up as the unscrewed all of them for what I have no idea.

A couple of things. First, regardless of what the dealer said or they said Heartland said, either the crimps are bad or there is a hydraulic over-pressure situation (which would have stressed ALL of the connections, whether they have popped yet or not). If an expert hydraulic maintenance company told you the crimps were bad, I'd go with that and insure (warranty or not) that every single hydralic fitting was replaced. The mere fact that you had three blowouts indicates that not replacing all the connections is unwise. If it were my coach, I wouldn't use it again until the hydraulics were replaced. Also, I'll bet the campground loves red hydraulic fluid leaking all over their site.

Regarding dealers, I was in a job where I dealt with dealers for my entire career. Dealers serve many useful purposes, but one of their main functions is to separate the manufactiurer from the consumer. I hope I'm not ruffling anyone's feathers here, but this is a simple truth. A good manufacturer will eventually step up to a legitimate problem, but make no mistake about it - the dealer is a buffer and there is always this game between them and the manufacturers for "approval". The customer is the one who must navigate these rough waters, as you are learning. By the way, incompetent dealers are all over the place - not much you can do except when you find a good one, continue to go there. Of course, another take on this is that the manufacturer selects their dealers, so to a certain extent, they are definitely responsible for any shoddy dealers in their network. This whole idea that the dealer is bad but the manufacturer is good is nonsense. With my background, I don't separate the dealer and the manufacturer - they are partners in this business deal. If they weren't, there wouldn't be all those pesky contracts.

Regarding the satellite signal problem, I didn't notice what model of coach you have, but if you aren't getting that satellite signal, go into the closet and find the TV antenna amplifier outlet. If the red light is on, turn it off - it is meant to amplify ONLY the on-air signal from your crank up antenna. If you turn the signal amp off, you should receive satellite just fine. Now, it may very well be something else, but this worked perfectly for me. Also, check EVERY SINGLE TV COAX CONNECTION. I stress this because literally every, and I'm not exagerating, connection in my Bighorn was hand tight. I watched the dealer go through the entire system and tighten every one properly - I have a good dealer - he made a housecall and did this in my driveway.

Finally, regarding venting. You spent a lot of money on a quality product and for whatever reason, it's not working. Worse, it's not working repeatedly. Sharing those problems with other owners of similar very expensive products is NOT venting - it's communicating. Certainly, the manufacturer deserves the chance to make it right, but in my book, communicating that information is supremely appropriate.

Good luck and I'm sure you'll get this resolved so you and your family can enjoy your coach.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Regarding the satellite signal problem, I didn't notice what model of coach you have, but if you aren't getting that satellite signal, go into the closet and find the TV antenna amplifier outlet. If the red light is on, turn it off - it is meant to amplify ONLY the on-air signal from your crank up antenna. If you turn the signal amp off, you should receive satellite just fine. Now, it may very well be something else, but this worked perfectly for me. .

Satellite wiring is separate from the signal booster and doesn't go through the booster. If turning the signal booster off fixed your satellite reception, your satellite dish is plugged into the cable input, not the satellite input. Or the wires behind the panel are connected wrong.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Satellite wiring is separate from the signal booster and doesn't go through the booster. If turning the signal booster off fixed your satellite reception, your satellite dish is plugged into the cable input, not the satellite input. Or the wires behind the panel are connected wrong.

That could very well be. All I know is that when the booster is on, I get broadcast signals on my TV. When the booster is off, I get satellite. Actually, I think I got that tip from someone one this forum, so it may be a common wiring issue.

I'm sure you're correct that it is wired incorrectly, but it works so I'm not messing with it. However, I'll be sitting in Gulf Shores Alabama shortly for a month and then on to Texas for a month, so I'll take a look at it then. I'd rather work in the warmth!

Thanks for the tip.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

The antenna booster circuit board electronic components do not have the wide frequency bandwidth needed for satellite signals, and will not pass them. When you turn the booster OFF, a relay on the booster circuit board enables a signal path that BYPASSES the booster electronics by connecting the coax INPUT connector DIRECTLY to the coax OUTPUT connector.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

The antenna booster circuit board electronic components do not have the wide frequency bandwidth needed for satellite signals, and will not pass them. When you turn the booster OFF, a relay on the booster circuit board enables a signal path that BYPASSES the booster electronics by connecting the coax INPUT connector DIRECTLY to the coax OUTPUT connector.

Being a HAM also, I know this. And it all works! Thanks.
 

pegmikef

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Having had to just replace a popped hydraulic line, I researched a lot of threads and videos on the subject before I did the replacement. I seem to recall reading a thread on this forum that was a year or two old that discussed the fact that for a short period, the factory crimper was in fact incorrectly calibrated causing hoses to burst and leak. I don't remember exactly when or for how long this was true. I noticed that almost all of the hydraulic hose problems were a single occurrence here and there and really, not very many of them considering the number of hoses in a normal rig, times the number of units manufactured annually.

For more than one to fail for the same reason in the same time frame is a big flag.

As others have recommended, I would certainly call Heartland and work with them. Please report back. Thanks
 

farside291

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Should the OP be concerned about the saturated insulation in the under belly? And, my satellite signal doesn't go anywhere near the booster. Its a separate cable from a separate jack. I bypass the booster for the bedroom TV. I can switch inputs on the TV and use either park cable or my Satellite.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Having had to just replace a popped hydraulic line, I researched a lot of threads and videos on the subject before I did the replacement. I seem to recall reading a thread on this forum that was a year or two old that discussed the fact that for a short period, the factory crimper was in fact incorrectly calibrated causing hoses to burst and leak. I don't remember exactly when or for how long this was true. I noticed that almost all of the hydraulic hose problems were a single occurrence here and there and really, not very many of them considering the number of hoses in a normal rig, times the number of units manufactured annually.

For more than one to fail for the same reason in the same time frame is a big flag.

As others have recommended, I would certainly call Heartland and work with them. Please report back. Thanks


If one blows because of an incorrectly calibrated crimper and all the connections were made with the same crimper, then they will all be subject to failure. It's just a matter of time. Might be a day, or a month or a year, but sooner or later, you are very likely to pop another one.

Just my opinion.
 

BillGott

Member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Update. Factory got involved the morning after post. However unit was in a remote campground on the west side of Lake Okeechobee. We live 90 miles away and made the trek there yesterday to drop plastic belly pan so hydraulic mobile repairs could be made. What a mess. There are 3 hydraulic connections on the cylinders that move the slide in and out. One at the far end which I assume supplies hydraulic pressure to push room out. I am sure one of the other 2 (at the other end on top of the cylinder) supplies pressure to bring the room in. The other could be to return hydraulic fluid to the system?? One of these 2 were off and the hose was laying in the pan when we lowered pan. It had completely blown off the fitting. That makes number 6 to either come off or have fluid leak between the outer and inner hose wall, bubble and burst. There was no way we were going to get the entire pan off and the cylinder is located above the frame between the axles. We cut the plastic behind the front axle and in front of the rear axle and folded it back under. We took out all the insulation back as far as we and a crowbar could reach. What a mess, about 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid (transmission fluid) were lost. I think the insulation held about 2.5 of that. The mobile hydraulic mechanic (same one I used the other times) found out the hose went to the rear most jack. He disconnected the line a made a new one with real hydraulic hose and new fittings. He also looked at a few more fittings and said it won't be long as some of them had fluid weeping around them.
I will be taking it back to the dealer and I believe Heartland is going to pay for a complete replacement of the lines. I will post a further update later.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Being a HAM also, I know this. And it all works! Thanks.

Sorry to tell you something you obviously know. I didn't look at all of your qualifications in your signature. I'm just a non-active General class, took the test as a lark after my Navy electronics/hospital electronics career.

Maybe some non-electronic type reading this thread will learn something from this.
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Sorry to tell you something you obviously know. I didn't look at all of your qualifications in your signature. I'm just a non-active General class, took the test as a lark after my Navy electronics/hospital electronics career.

Maybe some non-electronic type reading this thread will learn something from this.

No apologies needed for me. Actually, I'm getting back into it more actively since I retired and now have the time.

Safe travels.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Bill, Dick and others - I can likely speak for many here in saying we product owners/users do appreciate your technical posts and many of us get good information from them. Thank you for your contributions and never be shy :)
 

BigGuy82

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Update. Factory got involved the morning after post. However unit was in a remote campground on the west side of Lake Okeechobee. We live 90 miles away and made the trek there yesterday to drop plastic belly pan so hydraulic mobile repairs could be made. What a mess. There are 3 hydraulic connections on the cylinders that move the slide in and out. One at the far end which I assume supplies hydraulic pressure to push room out. I am sure one of the other 2 (at the other end on top of the cylinder) supplies pressure to bring the room in. The other could be to return hydraulic fluid to the system?? One of these 2 were off and the hose was laying in the pan when we lowered pan. It had completely blown off the fitting. That makes number 6 to either come off or have fluid leak between the outer and inner hose wall, bubble and burst. There was no way we were going to get the entire pan off and the cylinder is located above the frame between the axles. We cut the plastic behind the front axle and in front of the rear axle and folded it back under. We took out all the insulation back as far as we and a crowbar could reach. What a mess, about 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid (transmission fluid) were lost. I think the insulation held about 2.5 of that. The mobile hydraulic mechanic (same one I used the other times) found out the hose went to the rear most jack. He disconnected the line a made a new one with real hydraulic hose and new fittings. He also looked at a few more fittings and said it won't be long as some of them had fluid weeping around them.
I will be taking it back to the dealer and I believe Heartland is going to pay for a complete replacement of the lines. I will post a further update later.

Reading of problems like this is really disheartening. I previously had a 36' Class A and I had major issues with it (not hydraulic) and I know how disturbing this can be - as in "I can't sleep at night I'm so upset". Once you get it back to the dealer, I'd pursue having all of the coroplast ripped out, a complete steam cleaning of the underbelly and finally a replacement of the coroplast with new. Why? Well, for several reasons:

  • residual fluid will continue to leak out of the bottom if it isn't thoroughly clean
  • hydraulic fluid does have an aroma and not a pleasant one
  • assuming they used brake fluid, that stuff is corrosive with certain materials (if it's DOT3 or 4, it is). I quote: "Brake fluid is a very corrosive substance. Even if you are topping off the vehicles reservoirs, you may spill some brake fluid onto your engine or surrounding area. Make sure that you wipe it off immediately as it can eat through metal and other unprotected surfaces. If you get the fluid onto your skin, wash it off immediately, and it should go without saying, if you consume the fluid, seek medical attention as soon as possible"
  • it absorbs moisture. I quote: "Certain standards bring up a brake fluid´s “wet” boiling point. What this means is that hydraulic fluids can absorb moisture, which results in a lower boiling point and can damage the fluids ability to perform. Keep this in mind if you are releasing pressure or topping off the reservoirs for prolonged periods that the brake fluid can become contaminated." This tells me it may also promote rusting, although I don't know this.
  • it's toxic - breathing the fumes while in the coach is not healthy. I quote: "Brake fluid is a toxic substance, so one should take care when disposing of it. Because brake fluid is toxic, this is another reason not to mix it with another substance. Recycling becomes almost impossible. As a result of the dangers involved with brake fluid, it would be wise to keep it away from young children."
  • it's just messy and leaves the door open to the above issues as well as unforeseen problems.

If they used a hydraulic fluid that is not brake fluid, I'd bet the same stuff still applies. All of these fluids are similar. Heartland can tell you what was used and they can likely provide an MSDS.

Bottom line, and this is just my opinion, I'd be doing more than just repairing the lines. I don't know what your warranty status is, but if you're out, perhaps Heartland will still step up.

Good luck and I hope you get back to enjoying your investment very soon.

- - - Updated - - -

Bill, Dick and others - I can likely speak for many here in saying we product owners/users do appreciate your technical posts and many of us get good information from them. Thank you for your contributions and never be shy :)

Thanks Jim.

You know, my wife is always telling me that I need to be more assertive ... :cool:
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Reading of problems like this is really disheartening. I previously had a 36' Class A and I had major issues with it (not hydraulic) and I know how disturbing this can be - as in "I can't sleep at night I'm so upset". Once you get it back to the dealer, I'd pursue having all of the coroplast ripped out, a complete steam cleaning of the underbelly and finally a replacement of the coroplast with new. Why? Well, for several reasons:

  • residual fluid will continue to leak out of the bottom if it isn't thoroughly clean
  • hydraulic fluid does have an aroma and not a pleasant one
  • assuming they used brake fluid, that stuff is corrosive with certain materials (if it's DOT3 or 4, it is). I quote: "Brake fluid is a very corrosive substance. Even if you are topping off the vehicles reservoirs, you may spill some brake fluid onto your engine or surrounding area. Make sure that you wipe it off immediately as it can eat through metal and other unprotected surfaces. If you get the fluid onto your skin, wash it off immediately, and it should go without saying, if you consume the fluid, seek medical attention as soon as possible"
  • it absorbs moisture. I quote: "Certain standards bring up a brake fluid´s “wet” boiling point. What this means is that hydraulic fluids can absorb moisture, which results in a lower boiling point and can damage the fluids ability to perform. Keep this in mind if you are releasing pressure or topping off the reservoirs for prolonged periods that the brake fluid can become contaminated." This tells me it may also promote rusting, although I don't know this.
  • it's toxic - breathing the fumes while in the coach is not healthy. I quote: "Brake fluid is a toxic substance, so one should take care when disposing of it. Because brake fluid is toxic, this is another reason not to mix it with another substance. Recycling becomes almost impossible. As a result of the dangers involved with brake fluid, it would be wise to keep it away from young children."
  • it's just messy and leaves the door open to the above issues as well as unforeseen problems.

If they used a hydraulic fluid that is not brake fluid, I'd bet the same stuff still applies. All of these fluids are similar. Heartland can tell you what was used and they can likely provide an MSDS.

Bottom line, and this is just my opinion, I'd be doing more than just repairing the lines. I don't know what your warranty status is, but if you're out, perhaps Heartland will still step up.

Good luck and I hope you get back to enjoying your investment very soon.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks Jim.

You know, my wife is always telling me that I need to be more assertive ... :cool:

Page 9 of this Lippert document says that the hydraulic fluid is ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid).
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/om-hydraulic-slide-out-web.pdf
 
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