Help with black water tank, new to forum and owning a travel trailer!!

We need some helpful hints for dumping our black water tank. We are new owners of the North Trail 28BHS and it seems everytime we dump at the end of our weekend camping trips, the tank never fully empties. The gauge may read empty and it may not but no matter what when you look down inside the toilet you can still clearly see waste, paper and liquid. One question I have is, should the tank ALWAYS completely empty? We are using 1 ply toilet paper, we have sued more water with each flush as some people have told us to do but nothing seems to work. We were just wanting to know if anyone had any helpful tips we could try. Is there something like a snake that is safe to use in ths type of toilet? Any help would be appreciated!!! I hope I picked the right forum to post this message in!
 

ccd001

Member
Black water tank issue

I would do 2 things make sure your using a good chemical in your tank
which will help break down tissue and waste. I'm assuming you don't
have a black water rinse option which you hook a hose to and it rinses
your tank after you dump. So if didn't have this option, before I dump I
would run extra water into my tank before I dump the more water the better. Camping World as a black tank rinsing wand you hook to your
bathroom faucet and stick it down your stool opening and it will riinse
your tank. You also can have your wife/girlfriend run water down stool
while you dump which also might help. Hope this helps.
Clay
 

Uncle Rog

Well-known member
In our old TT's we would periodically fill and dump the tanks a couple of times, using a hose, to flush out any bad stuff. We also would try to dump a full tank, also using the hose to "top" it off so to speak. I always have a couple of gallons of water in the tank to loosen or keep "stuff" from securing a purchase, chemically treated or using the GEO method to keep the tank clean and not smelling bad..............here is the link, second time today.................

http://rvecafe.com/bwater.html
 

CampingJunkie

Active Member
We have a 28BHS and have had the same type of problems. Our sensors were reading 2/3 full for the last couple of trips. Our built in tank flush does not appear to be working properly. From time to time we have to flush our tanks while at the dump by feeding a hose through the kitchen window. If time allows and no lines, then try this from time to time. It worked Saturday when we left our week long trip. Saturday is not your typical leave day so we were the only ones there. Rain a hose to the toilet for about ten minutes and that did the trick. Both tanks reading empty now.

First, you need to put in the least amount of TP as possible. I also use one ply Scott's. We have three girls in our family so I have a PP TP trash can near the toilet. Us girls put all our PP TP in this trash can. Therefore, the only TP going into the tank is for the no 2 stuff.

Second, never dump unless your tank is full. The less waste in the tank when dumping, the less flushing/cleaning action you have. If the tank is not full from your waste, add a trash can or two of water, then dump.

Third, use chemicals or the geo method. Whichever, you think works for you.

Hope this helps.

Jennifer
 

Uncle Rog

Well-known member
Sticky business about the TP. I read on this forum to test the paper put it in a half full or half empty jug and shake it up, if it disintegrates you are good to go. My wife has to use Charmin, for some reason, which works just fine in the test and we have never had a plugged line. CJ is right about dumping with a full tank, and as to the previous question keep the valves closed until you are ready to dump, when they are open it is a straight shot from the septic tank / sewer to your nose!
 

JWalker

Northeast Region Director-Retired
I don't care what or how much toilet paper you use. The chemicals that you use will not help either. We have been fighting this problem since we bought our North Trail. You cannot get the last inch or so out of the Black Water Tank. We would run 80 gallons of water through the system and it still would not flush completely out. My gauges would read empty, but you could look down the toilet and see the water in there. We even ran one side of the trailer up on blocks and tried to drain it. It still did not work.

I believe that you should leave a few gallons of water in the tank, so no solids build up, But I also believe that you should be able to COMPLETELY drain out any waste in the tank and fill it with clean water.

I have contacted Heartland about this problem and have not gotten anywhere. If anyone can figure it out, let me know
 

Uncle Rog

Well-known member
J, you are right on the mark, some of the early BH models did have some plumbing / drain issues. The tank should be able to be drained dry, in my opinion. If you still are under warranty HL should cover you. Get a hold of the grand pooh-bah in customer relations ( Jim Beletti) he will get you to the right person to get you right.
 

fishn2dmax

Well-known member
I was fighting the Black tank smell for a while until I finally figured out what was causing it. Here is a link to my thread from beginning to end. //heartlandowners.org/showthread.php?t=5873

In Summary, the single roof vent you have should be the black tank. Easy enough to verify by putting you nose over it and shaking the trailer a little. Make sure the roof vent is not plugged or plumbed wrong. In our case, the gasses where coming up into the bathroom due to a poor mounting of the toliet on the base flange seal ( offset). The seal didn't appear to be leaking since there is not much water ( hydrostatic) pressure when flushing the toliet on the base seal. However, that changed quickly once I filled the black tank with water and all the way up the toliet. The base seal was leaking badly base flange seal! Any gasses in the black tank would seep out around the toliet flange. Once the seal was replaced and the toliet properly positioned the smell is gone. We also found NO glue on the vent stack joints that also contributed to gas smell from the tanks.
 

freex4

Member
I was fighting the Black tank smell for a while until I finally figured out what was causing it. Here is a link to my thread from beginning to end. //heartlandowners.org/showthread.php?t=5873

In Summary, the single roof vent you have should be the black tank. Easy enough to verify by putting you nose over it and shaking the trailer a little. Make sure the roof vent is not plugged or plumbed wrong. In our case, the gasses where coming up into the bathroom due to a poor mounting of the toliet on the base flange seal ( offset). The seal didn't appear to be leaking since there is not much water ( hydrostatic) pressure when flushing the toliet on the base seal. However, that changed quickly once I filled the black tank with water and all the way up the toliet. The base seal was leaking badly base flange seal! Any gasses in the black tank would seep out around the toliet flange. Once the seal was replaced and the toliet properly positioned the smell is gone. We also found NO glue on the vent stack joints that also contributed to gas smell from the tanks.

You know this could also be partly the reason the black tank doesn't empty fully. If the vent is clogged then there will be a vacuum effect in the tank and it will hold some liquid and also slow down the flow of a full tank.
 

FennerJ

Heartland Dealer Service
Jwalker,

When you called in you discussed the issue with the service rep. Gary S. he advised you that it may need to go to the dealer. Unfortunately, unless it is a matter of filling the tank, putting a disolving agent in the tank to clear out any debris and flushing it there are not a lot of other suggestions we can make other than to check the vent line to the roof, which was a very good suggestion made above.

I would also advise you to also check the valve as well. If there is debris stuck at the valve preventing it from opening fully or blocking the bottom of the line, it will prevent a full drain.
 
M

Mcreech

Guest
I would like to take a stab at this.....The North Trail black tanks have several built in features to solve this problem. 1) all North Trails have a black tank flush system as standard, make sure this is working....Hook a hose up to it and turn the water on, then look down the toilet, you should see the water raising or flowing...2) Our tanks are sloped towards the drain valve. and 3) the gate valves are at the very bottom of the side wall of the tank.........I would fill the tank up to the top of the toilet by using the tank flush system, once its all the way filled, pull the handle......37 gals flushing out should get all the waste out......I just went back and looked at our tanks on line and I don't see how anything could be left if you do that.......Not to mention that the indicator wires are at the very bottom of the tanks sidewall as well, in fact you couldn't get the probe any lower on the tank.....

Mike C
 

scs26wfo

Member
Our 28BHS that we purchased in April 2008 has the same problem. When the black tank is fully emptied, there is still several inches of waste, paper, water and chemical sitting below the opening of the tank. The tank can show empty, but it's still there. I have also tried increasing the lean angle on the trailer to aid in the draining process, without change. When the tank is emptied (according to the guages and no waste coming out of the drain), I can turn on the black tank rinse connection and get clear water coming out of the drain, but if you look through the toilet - it's still there. On our last camping trip, I bought a 50' garden hose and added at least 50 gallons into the toilet. At that point, it was cleaner, but there was still plenty of waste and paper in there. It's like there is a baffle or "stair-step" in the tank. I called Heartland and the rep said that was not the case and to use plenty of water and chemical. We have been using LOTS of water, but there are 3 ladies in the family so there will always be a fair amount of paper going into our toilet. I'm no clean freak, but I would like to empty the black tank. Also, I live in Ohio and I'm not looking forward to dumping 10 gallons of RV Antifreeze into the toilet each fall to be certain I don't get freezing in the tank.
 

Forrest Fetherolf

Senior Member
Our 28BHS that we purchased in April 2008 has the same problem. When the black tank is fully emptied, there is still several inches of waste, paper, water and chemical sitting below the opening of the tank.

sc,

Holding tanks were mounted flat in the frame without center support or slope toward the drain. The tank bottom sags and with drain in side of tank rather than the bottom will trap water and debris. Many owners have shimmed up the tanks for slope and added center supports to eliminate sag.

Forrest
 

scs26wfo

Member
Forrest, Thank you for the tip. I do have some concern about shimming up the tank as I don't wish to put any stress on the drain assembly. I have not looked at the tank or drain assy, so not sure if the concern is justified. I am guessing I just need to remove the screws holding the bottom cover in place to expose the tank and plumbing?

Heartland - Would this be something my dealer should look at under warranty or is this my obligation?
 

kampfirekid

Active Member
I just posted this elsewhere on the net because I am having this ame problem and am about fed up. To be sure to nip any black tank issues in the bud and avoid my dry caping phobia, I decided to "pre-charge" the black tank with ten gallons of water before we even left the house this weekend. I figured that at almost 1/3 full, we'd have a good amount of solution for the tank contents by the time we were ready to dump two days later. Upon leaving Sunday, I even topped the tank off with water from buckets until the black tank was completely full. Then to the dump station.

I made sure we drove around the campground a bit before dumping to help break things down. Then, I pulled the valve open and got a gush of a full hose for about five seconds - I could see through the clear connection I had installed. Then, a trickle... for ever. I added several buckets through the toilet and nothing but a 1/4 inch wide stream in the invert of the hose. With no hose connection for the tank flush, I was doomed. I added about 12 gallons of water through the toilet, but we never got much flow, and by the time we had to leave to avoid ticking off the guys behind us, the tank was close to 2/3 full. When I got home, it was constant flushing and bucketing to the septic, and close to two hours later, we were clean again.

I am wondering if we actually have an obstruction going on. I have heard of the "plug" drilled out by the fatory for the drain connection being left in the tank and causing problems. I just can't figure out how we have had this issue every time (twice) we have used this trailer. If we had another weekend left this season, I'd try the TP in the bag trick. We only use the RV toilet paper from Camping World, and although I do find a glob coming our now and then, it is not enough in my estimation to plug things up so bad that the water (liquid) almost completely stops.

I think that tonight I am going to fill the tank up 100% now that there is no waste in the tank and see how it drains with all water. Maybe I'll find it will slow up or stop, and that will support (or negate) my reasoning of an obstruction.

Is it possible the way it is plumbed is an issue? I can't see with the enclosed underbelly, but both the grey and black tanks come into a tee for the main drain, and the valves are on each opposing side of the tee. This is so frustrating, and now having to think about it all winter whithout resolution is going todrive me nuts. I wouldn't think it is the TP when it is RV approved, but why aren't any of you having issues? How can the TP break down on a two-day weekend?

Lastly, I see the venting issues some posted above. I noticed we has some heavy gurgling at the start of dumping, which makes me think this could be an issue, too. We didn't have the option to use the flush at this state park (no hoe connection available), but I don't see anywhere the performance or volume out of the factory flush when compared to the Tornado. We go in for a laundry list of warranty items nex weekend, and I hope they get it resolved, otherwise I'm done with dry camping.
 

kampfirekid

Active Member
WARNING... Some of this may be graphic...

The other evening, I got a little irritated over this black tank stuff, so I went out and bought a mirror on a telescoping handle and looked in the tank through the toilet. Lone behold, I found a few "nuggets" still in the tank. Mind you, the day before I had filled the tank several times and flushed several times with the beloved "black tank flush system" provided by Heartland. To still have soil in the tank is unacceptable.

So, I figured I'd give it ane last try. After seeing the "nuggets" in the black tank, I filled the tank completely full via the flush system as prescribed above. I could see the water churning in the tank through the toilet and a "nugget" swirling below. Good. It's going to work. The tank was completely filled, so I went out and pulled the valve open. The clear connection showed the drain pipe was draining at full capacity as the tube was completely full with clear water. After about 5 to 8 seconds, the water in the tube gurgled, and the flow immediately went to a small flow in the invert of the drain pipe. I ran inside the trailer and looked in the toilet. There was still at least three inches of water in the tank below. The "nuggets" never passed, and although they could have while I ran into the trailer to check the level, I "mirrored the tank" again later, and I still found the "residents" sitting in the tank.

I then ran the flush system. The amount of water coming our the drain certainly never duplicated the amount of flow going into the flush connection. At best, the water in the invert of the drain pipe was 1/2 to 3/4 inch wide - barely a trickle. Three times I flushed. Three more times I filled the tank. The full pipe (for 5-8 seconds) and the gurgle happened each time. On the three flushes, I could still see the remnants of the spoil in the tank, and the odor through the toilet the next day confirming the lack of their evacuation.

If this tank were draining properly, I would estimate thirty-six (36) gallons should come out with a close to full pipe and run at a hefty rate for close to 30 to 40 seconds... not 5 to 8. Then, this tank trickles for hours afterward. In fact, I have witnessed it still dripping twelve hours later when I mistakenly left the cap off and the valve open. What's up with that.

Clearly, something is wrong. If the delare can't resolve this next week, I hopeHeartland will come to the rescue.
 

newbie

Northern Virginia
WARNING... Some of this may be graphic...

The other evening, I got a little irritated over this black tank stuff, so I went out and bought a mirror on a telescoping handle and looked in the tank through the toilet. Lone behold, I found a few "nuggets" still in the tank. Mind you, the day before I had filled the tank several times and flushed several times with the beloved "black tank flush system" provided by Heartland. To still have soil in the tank is unacceptable.

So, I figured I'd give it ane last try. After seeing the "nuggets" in the black tank, I filled the tank completely full via the flush system as prescribed above. I could see the water churning in the tank through the toilet and a "nugget" swirling below. Good. It's going to work. The tank was completely filled, so I went out and pulled the valve open. The clear connection showed the drain pipe was draining at full capacity as the tube was completely full with clear water. After about 5 to 8 seconds, the water in the tube gurgled, and the flow immediately went to a small flow in the invert of the drain pipe. I ran inside the trailer and looked in the toilet. There was still at least three inches of water in the tank below. The "nuggets" never passed, and although they could have while I ran into the trailer to check the level, I "mirrored the tank" again later, and I still found the "residents" sitting in the tank.

I then ran the flush system. The amount of water coming our the drain certainly never duplicated the amount of flow going into the flush connection. At best, the water in the invert of the drain pipe was 1/2 to 3/4 inch wide - barely a trickle. Three times I flushed. Three more times I filled the tank. The full pipe (for 5-8 seconds) and the gurgle happened each time. On the three flushes, I could still see the remnants of the spoil in the tank, and the odor through the toilet the next day confirming the lack of their evacuation.

If this tank were draining properly, I would estimate thirty-six (36) gallons should come out with a close to full pipe and run at a hefty rate for close to 30 to 40 seconds... not 5 to 8. Then, this tank trickles for hours afterward. In fact, I have witnessed it still dripping twelve hours later when I mistakenly left the cap off and the valve open. What's up with that.

Clearly, something is wrong. If the delare can't resolve this next week, I hopeHeartland will come to the rescue.

Boy I was hoping you were going to figure out what the problem was because I am having the same problem.

I took out the wall in the basement that leads to the wiring and plumbing compartment to try to get to the gate valve but it seems impossible to get to from there. I figured the cable to the valve may need to be adjusted but can't figure out where to access the valve. Very fustrating.

I may need to drop the Landmark off at the dealer.
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
Well I too had a similar problem. Turns out the problem was me. I'll take the blame even though I suspect the problem lies with my wifes choice of TP. I drained, flushed, poked around and still only a trickle at the drain. Well I took the bottom skin off and removed some black pipe then the valve gate. WALA! Big wad of TP blocking the drain pipe hole. A coat hanger, a few choice words and a much needed shower and all has been well since. I think that another contributing factor was when I dumped we had only two days of use. The tank did not have enough water to flow everything out of the tank. Now if we don't have a full black water tank I add plenty of water before dumping. No problems since. Sounds like you may have to go in and take a look. Have fun.
Peace
Dave
 

irvin56

Well-known member
my experience

was years ago when we moved up to our prowler for a hard top tent tr.
Never had a toilet in trailer before. With the wife and 3 girls with us, they had their monthly thing and put tampons and napkins down toilet. Well talk about a plug up and MAJOR tare down to fix. They never knew or though about this before.

after that NEVER DID it again. Was I ****ed of YOU BET. like I said THEY never did it again
 
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