Heartland VS KZ

We are looking at buying a travel trailer, and I've been doing lots of research. Much more complicated subject than I first thought. We used to have a Class B camper van and a soft top tent trailer before that. But we have not been camping since the kids left home.

We are a 50+ couple who will travel with little dogs. Indeed the dogs were a big part of the reason we are getting an RV. We do not anticipate any other people camping with us, but it could happen, we just don't have any grandchildren YET.

Our T.V. is a 08 Dodge half ton. It has the "hemi" motor and 3.92 tranny,and the "Big Horn" tow package - giving it a 8,350 max tow capacity. But we weighed the truck, and with us and some luggage it was about 5,800# - packed for a trip we'll probably have 6,000# in the truck - leaving 8,000# from our CGVW max of 14,000#'s.

BUT I don't want to run at the max and would like to leave about a 1,000# safety margin. (any comments on the wisdom of this limit?) Therefore our travel trailer will be about 7,000# max, loaded and ready to roll. I'm looking at UVW about 5,000# or so, max 5,500 or so.

It has not been easy, my dearly beloved's tastes would probably be better severed with a one ton (or at lease 3/4 ton) but I'm already choking with the price of gas ($1.34 / litre CDN). The truck only gobbles 14 litres/100 KM now, I expect half that towing a trailer of 7,000# . Driving the truck without trailer costs about $18.75 per 100 kms (60miles). Any Dodge owners out there with reality check for me?

We've developed a MUST HAVE list

1 A toilet with elbow room. I'm a big guy - as in 5x shirts
2 A neo angle shower with wide door. (see above)
3 An Island Queen Bed (would love king but not in our weight range)
4 Some counter space - can't figure out where the cook cooks with some of these units with zero counter space. I'm the cook in this house BTW so elbow room in the kitchen is needed.
5 Comfortable sofa. My wife thinks the hide-a-bed sofa's are more comfortable than the jacknife sofas. An extra easy chair or two is nice to have.
6 Nice decor - my dearly beloved is firm on this, can't look too tacky or boring.
7 SAFE tires - I will require the vendor to change them if the tires it comes with are cheapo tires that have a rep for blowing out.
8 Good suspension system, don't want to see my trailer bouncing over every railway track. I would like to know what kind of suspension system Heartland uses? I see the emphasis on the Wide Trak but I'm interested in the suspension system.

We have several "would be nice if ' features.
1 Dining table and chairs instead of booth. I can't fit into a booth and will have to bring a chair to put at the end of the booth if we don't get a dinnette.
2 Outside shower - three White dogs...
3 Easy access to utilites, I don't want to have to crawl under the trailer to dump the water. (this is almost a must have).

SO

Based on the above I've been kicking a lot of RV tires and checking out what the RV manufactures have to offer, and I read RV forums on line - a lot. I've developped an aversion to Forest River products based on my forum reading. It would take a super salesman to convince me to take a chance on any Forest River product.

BUT I also noticed two manufactures that seem to get lots more thumbs up than thumbs down. KZ and Heartland. Also ran's include Jayco (no floor plan I like in my weight range) and Fleetwood - especially their Terry line. It was a Terry trailer that first caught my beloved's eye and she still likes the look of them. They are a little too heavy for what we want (UVW is 5931 on their 250-ORL

Hence: our current short list pits KZ vs Heartland

The KZ's trailer we are most keen on is the 261RK - it is 28'9" with UVW of 4882. It's a Rear Kitchen design, bathroom walls are not square - interesting effect on space.

Heartland has several that we've looked at.

North Trail 31RED has incredible space but at 32'6" I'm a little warry of the length. 5,390 UVW is within the limits. Got a nice write up in an RV magazine we read. If the guidelines for TV wheel base vs length of trailer are good guidelines my max length should be about 28 feet, at 32'6" the 31RED pushes the limit and may be too much for my anti-sway bars and anti-sway system on my truck (some electronic braking system).

North Trail 280 RLS and 26RKS are both getting a hard look, a little shorter than 31RED and each has their own benefits. Saves a few thousand but that is not the big issue, a thousand or two either way is OK - we do want it under $30,000 - and the more under the better.

Sundance 260RKS seems to be identical to 26RKS. QUESTION for Heatland REP - is there a difference? They have identical UVW 5154 - which leads me to think they are identical. The salesman said there is a difference - different decals, fabrics and his point, different dealers.

Anyone with comments on the KZ versus any of these Heatland units? And thanks to those who read this LONG post.

FKD
 

JohnL

Sundance Product Manager
FKD, WOW, let me get a glass of water and catch my breath. i read your post twice and i think i might have the very close to purfect trailer for you. It is a Sundance 310RLS Trailer, I am doing a Proto of this Unit on 8/21/08 and i will keep you in mind. If you go to our web page you should get a good look at it. The GVWR is 8600LB and expect the dry weight to be around 6300LB, the space at the foot of the bed and door going to the Bathroom is about 15-19 inches so this should give you room to walk around. The Johnnie is built with ampel leg room and elbow room in mind. I am sure you will be pleased with the storage, counter top space and most of all the Uinversal Docking Center, all your hook ups are in an enclosed box, so no bending down to get under the coach. The Shower is a Neo Angel with a Glass door ( i am 6' 2" and a 3XL - realy i am a slim to medium but the way they size everything now) HA! I can tell you I have Plenty of room to move around. This unit will have an optional Air Mattress with storage under the sofa (see photos on web page) The decor will be to her liking no doubt ( i picked colors myself HA) Getting to the tires I have not heard in a long while of any issues - we run c load tires, that could be something you could work out with your dealer. The wide trac Suspension it a blessing to the trail industry - not sure why some manufactures still use the old style. ( one of my reps bought a 310QB and says it handels like a dream - he has an older Half-Ton truck). All and All i feel the Sundance 310RLS is the RIGHT coach for you and the Bride. Thanks for your time - John Sundance Brand Manager my e-mail is jleonard@heartlandrvs.com and our web page is www.HEARTLANDRVS.com
 
M

Mcreech

Guest
FKD

Let me first say the difference between the Sundance 260RKS and North Trail 26RKS is just graphics, fabric's, Counter top edging........Now let me say this, if you like the 31RED and it fits your needs, then don't discard it because of what you think might be to long.....The reason I say this is because we have owners that either have the 31QBS or 31RED which are about the same length and pull with big SUV's not a Dodge Ram and they swear by the stability and easy of towing the North Trail....Go tell the dealer you want to hook the trailer up to your truck and take it on a test drive, that way you can feel for yourself............As far as the suspension we use, we use a leaf spring with Wide Trax.....We don't use the Torflex rubber suspension because the rubber looses its effectivness over time, that's why all Heartland's $40k - $60k FW use the same leaf spring suspension as the North Trail....

I hope this helps
 

sjrellis

Well-known member
We own a Heartland and our son and dil own a KZ. While they have had more problems with theirs (I think some of it is actually due to inexperience on their part), they have had great customer service from the factory. They had some warranty work done earlier this year from the dealer that was not all done, but they had travelled about 1500 miles before they knew it. Long story short, they had a major water leak. After talking to the dealer and the factory, the factory sent a repairman TO their trailer 250 MILES away from the factory to do the repairs. They are totally satisfied with the repair work.

We have had no major problems with our 3670.
 

pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
I can tell you that travel trailers with the wide track suspension pull very well, much better than the standard suspension on most travel trailers.

For fuel economy, 1/2 is about what to I've seen on all of my trucks, gas and diesel over the years between loaded and empty. Just be happy you're not in NB or NS where diesel was $1.60 CAD per liter last month when I was up there.:(

As far as bouncing.... You don't need to do 110 over railroad tracks...... slow downNone

For a reality check... I know it's apples to Oranges but truck in my signature.... These are hand calculated figures.

22-23 MPG US gallon runing empty
14 - 15 MPG US towing ultralite aero nose trailers like the North Trail and ultralite fifth wheels
11 - 14 MPG US pulling standard travel trailers and mid and full profile fifth wheel trailers (fifth wheels do better on fuel even though they are heavier)
10 - 11 MPG US hauling BIG HEAVY toy haulers...... These are wider and taller than most 5th wheels which is more air to push.

Aerodynamics and speed makes the biggest impact in fuel economy, more so than weight. At speeds above 50 MPH (80 kph) aerodynamics alone has the greatest effect on fuel economy.
 

Vans

Member
This is the perfect thread for me to make my first appearance on. I too am in the market for a new trailer and both of these brands are tops on my list.

I am the current owner of a vintage Airstream('77 Safari). I have come to appreciate the merits of owning such a trailer and the Airforums community( http://www.airforums.com/index.php?s= ) is quite amazing in their knowledge, help and sense of community.

That being said, i am tired of the work that goes into such a trailer and i don't have the time for a complete restoration. Furthermore, my wife is preggers with our first. :eek:

So, i made a command decision that we must get a new trailer if we are going to keep on camping with our dog, cat, new child and us. We would be just too crowded in a 23' Safari for my comfort.

I am very glad to see a forum where members of the Heartland corp interact with owners. It makes a purchase that much easier to pull the trigger on.

The models we are considering are the North Trail 26RKS and the KZ Spree 240BHS.

This being my first child, and most likely only, i am not such which configuration is going to suit our needs best. I can see the merits of both.

I prefer to keep the size of my trailer under a 28' model. Simply more for ease of parking and maneuvering in tighter spots. I have a have a tight turn to back into my driveway when i bring my trailer home from storage to keep on my rv pad for easy loading and unloading during the summer. My TV is a 2005 F-150 5.4 4x4 SC so i think i can handle most of the models in the North Trail line up.

I guess i don't really have a particular question for this thread but would appreciate any insight from other owners or reps with their opinions on my situation.

Thanks.
 

pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
This is the perfect thread for me to make my first appearance on. I too am in the market for a new trailer and both of these brands are tops on my list.

I am the current owner of a vintage Airstream('77 Safari). I have come to appreciate the merits of owning such a trailer and the Airforums community( http://www.airforums.com/index.php?s= ) is quite amazing in their knowledge, help and sense of community.

That being said, i am tired of the work that goes into such a trailer and i don't have the time for a complete restoration. Furthermore, my wife is preggers with our first. :eek:

So, i made a command decision that we must get a new trailer if we are going to keep on camping with our dog, cat, new child and us. We would be just too crowded in a 23' Safari for my comfort.

I am very glad to see a forum where members of the Heartland corp interact with owners. It makes a purchase that much easier to pull the trigger on.

The models we are considering are the North Trail 26RKS and the KZ Spree 240BHS.

This being my first child, and most likely only, i am not such which configuration is going to suit our needs best. I can see the merits of both.

I prefer to keep the size of my trailer under a 28' model. Simply more for ease of parking and maneuvering in tighter spots. I have a have a tight turn to back into my driveway when i bring my trailer home from storage to keep on my rv pad for easy loading and unloading during the summer. My TV is a 2005 F-150 5.4 4x4 SC so i think i can handle most of the models in the North Trail line up.

I guess i don't really have a particular question for this thread but would appreciate any insight from other owners or reps with their opinions on my situation.

Thanks.

Congrats on the baby to come. Life as you know it is about to cease LOL....... And it's worth it.;)

Tight area to manuver the biggest concern, give serious consideration to the ultralite Sundance X and North trail 5th wheels to tow behind the F150, A 28' fifth wheel is more manuverable than a 28' bumper pull because of the pin location. Your overall combo length is roughly 3' - 4' shorter with a fifth wheel if the trailers are the same actual length
 

Vans

Member
Congrats on the baby to come. Life as you know it is about to cease LOL....... And it's worth it.;)

Tight area to manuver the biggest concern, give serious consideration to the ultralite Sundance X and North trail 5th wheels to tow behind the F150, A 28' fifth wheel is more manuverable than a 28' bumper pull because of the pin location. Your overall combo length is roughly 3' - 4' shorter with a fifth wheel if the trailers are the same actual length




Thank you. I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea. I am a bit older than most folks who start having kids so i guess at 40 if im not ready now i never will be. lol

As for 5th wheel. That is an case where the wife laid down the law. 5th wheel is verboten for some reason. lol

The mosre i read these forums and look over the models on the Heartland website the more i am inclined to choose one. I really like what i see.
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
See if you can get your wife to look at the trailer you are interested in, 5'rs and tt with the floor plan as close to each other as you can get. Point out the pro's of the 5th as far as length in towing and ease of backing into that tight space at the house.
Good luck with the first chiild and enjoy, they grow up way too fast.
 

bigredtruck

Well-known member
nothing wrong with having kids at 40 either, Vans. had my first at 35 and second at 40 and DH is 4 years older. pros and cons to younger and 'more mature' same as pros and cons to their 'spacing'. just love 'em to death and like Tom said, they grow up way too fast so enjoy every minute.
 
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