question on hardwired surge protector - EMS-HW50C

So, after reading so many posts about campground electrical issues, we decided to add the progressive industries EMS-HW50C.
Question I have is; where (electrically) does this need to be wired in?
Our rig is a Gateway 3200rs.
We do not have the generator prep package, nor do we have any generator transfer switch.
The main circuit panel is in the kitchen in the side of one kitchen cabinet with little real access to the rear of the electriccal panel.
The converter/charger is in the basement storage with easy access thru the wall panel.
I believe that the shore power cord goes from the external plug to the circuit panel first; and then on to the converter/charger. I am hoping that someone else can confirm that for me.
I was hoping to install the EMS-HW50C in the basement just before the converter/charger because that would be easy, but I believe that would not be the correct place.
Has anyone installed a hardwired surge protector behind that main distribution panel? Was there room?
Is my assumption correct that the EMS-HW50C should be installed on the input side of of the main control center panel?
Any suggestions or experiences are most appreciated.

The Power Converter is plugged into a dedicated outlet on its own circuit breaker. The shore power wires do not go to the Power Converter at all.

Since you don't have an automatic transfer switch (part of generator prep), probably the easiest thing to do is to disconnect the shore power wires that are attached to the circuit breaker panel and move them to the input side of the EMS. Get a couple of feet of new wire to run from the EMS output to the circuit breaker panel.

You will not need to be concerned about the converter.
One thing to do before you start is find out where the power cable enters your coach with regard to the location of the breaker panel.
If it runs from behind your basement wall, great. If it enters the area of the breaker panel through the floor your project could be a bit harder.
If you don't see the heavy 6/3 cable behind the wall in the basement and it enters through the floor you might have to mount your EMS, or I should say cram your EMS, in the area behind the breaker panel. I just installed one in my daughters trailer and it had to go behind the breaker panel.
So when you find out where your power cable comes from come on back and we'll talk some more.

Peace
Dave

After disconnecting from shore power, it's relatively easy to remove the breaker panel from the wall to access the wiring. I recommend mounting the suppressor in the basement (behind the walls) where you can access. Get the remote display for it, too. Wherever you put it, make sure it's not under the black tank anti-siphon valve. Good idea to move your converter to a similar location, one that will be high and dry should a water leak occur. Be sure, also, that the fan on the converter is not in a pile of construction debris up against a wall. There are fuses on it you may need to access at some future time.


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Thank you for the replies.
That is mostly the conclusions I have come to as well; that the converter is not part of the picture, and that i need to get to the back of the circuit breaker panel to cram the EMS in there someplace.
Our shore power cord enteres the rig in the rear, and not near the basement, so it makes it harder to find a spot to cut the cord.
As much as I would like to mount the EMS in the basement, the shore powere cord is routed from the rear of the rig to the circuit breaker panel in the kitchen cabinet.
In order to mount the EMS in the basement, I would need to add an extension from the circuit breaker panel to the basement area, and then from there, back to the circuit breaker panel.
Not sure that I like the idea of extending the shore power cable and having to splice that extra connection.
Not sure that i like the idea of having the EMS hiden inside the kitchen cabinet either, behind the circuit breaker panel either though, due to potential heat and maintenance issues.
I guess the next step is to pull the circuit breaker panel out and see how messy it is is behind there, and try to figure out where the shore power line actually runs.
I am always sort of amused when I pull a wall or some other thing out to find what is left by the factory; screws, sawdust, wood chips, holes that look like they were punched through with a sledge hammer...
My car analogy is: it's like buying a new car and finding an assortment of nuts and bolts and shards of metal on the floormats and wondering where they came from...

shurack24 said:

My car analogy is: it's like buying a new car and finding an assortment of nuts and bolts and shards of metal on the floormats and wondering where they came from...

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Sad but true.

Don't cut your entrance cable, disconnect it and hook it to the EMS and add a piece of 6/3 SO wire, it is a whole lot easier to work with.

I would bet that the shore power wire is routed through your basement as a lot of 5th wheels are like this. Open up the panel(s) and check. If this is the case, it is possible to splice the EMS in line. However, the power wires are stiff and not easy to connect inside the EMS. One side is easier than the other. (I tried this) The easiest is to buy a section of flexible wire and run this to the breaker panel and put the EMS where it is practical. The shore power wire can either be cut or connected to the removed end. The flex wire (stranded) is at Home Depot or Lowes.

Hard to tell, not knowing your floorplan. But taking a quick look at a YouTube video on a Gateway, the electrical panel is right at the entry door. If yours is, then the shore cable is easily accessible by removing the basement walls. You can disconnect it from the panel by removing it from the side of the cabinet, connect your extension wiring and then mount the suppressor in the basement. It's basically the same thing I did with my BH3670. Originally, I had the dealer install it before we took possession and they stuck it right behind the panel. I moved it later. As far as the converter, you don't want it under water lines, especially the black tank anti-siphon valve. Mine was under it and sitting in a pile of dust/debris with the fan close to a wall.

Both of my units are now high and dry, mounted to the side of the step framing and accessible via a removable panel.

I put mine between the transfer switch and the main distribution panel. I used outlets so the surge protector is not hard wired in.

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carl.swoyer said:

I put mine between the transfer switch and the main distribution panel. I used outlets so the surge protector is not hard wired in.

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That's something I keep thinking of doing, putting plugs on the cables. Just gotta shake the money tree (should put a vibrator on it) again. Those 50A plugs are pricey.


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JohnDar said:

That's something I keep thinking of doing, putting plugs on the cables. Just gotta shake the money tree (should put a vibrator on it) again. Those 50A plugs are pricey.


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Click to expand...

Why? Plug connections cause most electrical issues.

JohnDar said:

That's something I keep thinking of doing, putting plugs on the cables. Just gotta shake the money tree (should put a vibrator on it) again. Those 50A plugs are pricey.


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Food for thought: Any mechanical connection is a potential source of a problem.

Every connector in a circuit will cause a voltage drop and they add up. The less the better. Remember even a straight piece of wire has a voltage drop.

Mine has been installed plug in since 2012 no issue. I use to hang it from the post and ended up with water inside the surge protector.

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Jon is Correct, don't cut your entrance cable.
If you decide to sell your rig, you can remove your EMS system and return your rig to the stock wiring form.
Then you can reinstall your EMS in your new rig.
Save the piece of 6/3WG from the EMS to the breaker panel for possible reuse also.
Throw away nothing, and cut nothing.

Hockster

CoveredWagon said:

Why? Plug connections cause most electrical issues.

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I installed mine that way in case of problems with the suppressor itself. It can be bypassed and the cords plugged back together in an emergency. Otherwise there would be no way to have power with a bad suppressor. When I installed it, I zip tied the plugs together to keep them from working apart behind the basement wall. Originally I was going to hardware it straight, until I read a post about someone else who had put the plugs in. Been that way for 4 years with no problems.


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Avvidclif is also correct, each connection is a potential trouble source and creates resistance.
With each rig bouncing down the road you will get some movement in your connections also, and over time things start to loosen up.
Loose connections cause heat to build up and over time, if loose enough, can cause a fire.
A problem I found early on with my rig was the factory ground buss bar connection, which was a self tapping screw through the buss to the frame.
The screw had sheared off and I lost my ground connection.
Plugged into shore power, everything worked fine, but when unplugged I had no 12volt power.
When I located the problem, I put 2 screws into the buss bar to secure that, then I ran a #8 wire from the ground buss to the trailer frame.
End of problem.

Hockster

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avvidclif said:

Food for thought: Any mechanical connection is a potential source of a problem.

Every connector in a circuit will cause a voltage drop and they add up. The less the better. Remember even a straight piece of wire has a voltage drop.

Click to expand...

If done properly, each connection would be 12 to 18 milliohms or less. That is 0.012 Ohms. 50 amps X 0.012 = 0.600V and 3 watts max at 50 amps. Don't worry about it.

Hockster said:

Jon is Correct, don't cut your entrance cable.
If you decide to sell your rig, you can remove your EMS system and return your rig to the stock wiring form.
Then you can reinstall your EMS in your new rig.
Save the piece of 6/3WG from the EMS to the breaker panel for possible reuse also.
Throw away nothing, and cut nothing.

Hockster

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This is what we did. We're on our third RV. We bought the EMS and a couple feet of wire for the first rig. It has followed us ever since.

mlpeloquin said:

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If done properly, each connection would be 12 to 18 milliohms or less. That is 0.012 Ohms. 50 amps X 0.012 = 0.600V and 3 watts max at 50 amps. Don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

That would be in a perfect world and when new. Why create a problem when not needed.