View Full Version : air and heat

12-08-2005, 03:39 PM
We have a 2005 Grand Canyon and the air conditioning is not cooling. World Wide tried to fix it by sealing some vents. Dometic said the sensor is mounted in the wrong place and is too close to the return air. I would like to change to a manual thermostat and get rid of the remote. We talked to a Jim at the factory and he said it should be wired for a manual thermostat. It has been almost 3 weeks since we tried to get some warranty work done and World Wide still hasn't received any answer from Heartland. I called Heartland's customer service two days ago and they said they would call World Wide. However, still no response. As far as the heating goes, I thought this was a four season coach. Even in Ariz. the furance runs evey five minutes at night. As soon as the furance shuts off, it cools off right away, like little or no insulation. We have other warranty issues as well, and are waiting for a response. My 1995 Newmar was really a warm coach and we were thinking a new Landmark would be as good or better as they are advertised with good r-values. We would like to hear from the factory asap to get some work done. If we can't get things working, the fifth wheel is going to be up for sale. I don't know what more to do. Any suggestions, as we love the floor plan. DDJ

Ken Washington
12-08-2005, 10:45 PM
Hi ddj, Moving the sensor will stop the unit from cutting on and off so quickly. We have the same problem with the air conditioner not doing a good job.:mad: They moved our sensor and that did help keep the unit running but our 37ft.Grand Cayon will not cool down like it should. They also put three more vents in the main living area but I don't see that helping. I am thinking about putting another air/heat pump in the bedroom. I have seen and heard of others that are having the same problem we are having. Heartland needs to consider putting two units in the larger fifth wheels.

12-08-2005, 10:56 PM

Thanks for your response. Do you have trouble heating your Landmark as well? Our furnace kicks in all night, even in AZ. The temp drops to 40 degrees or so.


Ken Washington
12-08-2005, 11:08 PM
Hi again ddj, Let's put it this way! In ten nights with the temp around 40 degrees, we used almost 20 gallons of propane!:mad: No heat was used in the daytime but at night it ran alot to keep our unit warm. We really like this trailer but miss the heat pump we had on our last trailer.

12-09-2005, 12:25 AM
The Landmark uses a bonded exterior wall with fiberglass and a backing material that is glued directly to the aluminum studs with a caulking-like adhesive. The exterior skin is fairly thick and the company literature claims that it acts as an isulation material. The only recognized insulation is the Formaldehyde-Free Fiberglass Insulation that is laid between the studs before the interior walls are added. There is no foam core insulation, probably because it contains Formaldehyde.

The better Newmar trailers use a thin layer of foam insulation bonded to the inside layer of the exterior walls in addition to the fiberglass insulation. I saw this on their factory tour as they pointed out the differences of their various models. That may be the reason DDJ considered his 1995 as a "warm" trailer.

I have often wondered if the cold is conducted through the aluminum studs to the inside or if a warmer inside temperature warms the studs to the outside since there is no significant insulation sheltering them in either direction. My manual on page 39 states "The bonded fiberglass wall may show a 'print through' of the inner structure supports and beams. This is normal and may be more evident in harsh climates." I'm not sure of the significance of this "outline" as it affects the general insulating qualities of the unit.

Lastly, my operator's manual on page 27 states the following: "Your fifth wheel was designed primarily for recreational use and short-term occupancy and has not been designed for full time living. If you expect to occupy the fifth wheel for an extended period, despite our efforts, be prepared to deal with condensation and the humid conditions that may be encountered."

I suggest that you read the section titled "Effects of Prolonged Occupancy" in the manual. I suppose that some of the information is common sense stuff, but the warnings would cause me to question whether or not this is the right unit for a full-timer. The statements, however, may be part of a collection of warnings the company uses to protect themselves from claims against their products.

2005 Chev Silverado Crew Cab Silverado 2500HD diesel
2006 Heartland Shenandoah

12-09-2005, 10:59 AM
First of all, I have already contacted my service guys to see exactly what is happening with their communication with Worldwide. If they really were waiting on something, they will not be after today.
Secondly, re: the issue of cooling your unit, your remote sensor may need to be moved. As I had posted in this forum previously, when we first starting using Dometic's "state-of-the-art" remote control system, they came out to the factory and installed the first ones for us. Turns out, where they put (and showed us to put) the remote sensor on the ceiling unit was too close to the down air flow if you have the "quick cool" vent open. This caused a number of units to shut off prematurely, because the sensor was reading colder than what the room actually was. Now, some people rarely use the "quick cool" vent and it wasn't much of a problem for them. That being said, the fix for this issue was to move the remote sensor to the other side of the A/C unit. Because of their participation in this issue, Dometic agreed to provide new plastic interior A/C shrouds so that there would be two little holes when the sensor had to be moved.
Beyond this short cycling issue due to the remote sensor location, there have not been a lot of issues with the A/C systems. I know a lot of owners have struggled with the operation of the remote itself and the settings, which has caused a lot of consternation. But the system works when operated properly. We did have one or two coaches where the A/C ducting had been compromised (squished) and they needed to be expanded back into shape to get the air flow back to where it needed to be.
Ken mentioned considering a second A/C in units so large - and he is right. Dometic themselves will tell you that as large are some of these fifth wheels are, if you are looking for significantly colder temperatures when you are in the South and SouthWest, you should strongly consider the optional second A/C in the bedroom. That's why we offer it. Why don't we make it standard? Because believe it or not, not everyone wants to spend the extra money on them (as they camp mostly in the Midwest and Northern states) and the vast majority of our competition also offers them as an option, so we can't price ourselves out of the market.
Regarding the sidewalls, I have been in this industry for over 20 years and I am going to tell you that the structure and the thickness of the fiberglass and substrate that we use is above average. I know that it takes a long time for one of our coaches to either heat up or cool down once it has reached whatever temperature it is at because of its insulation and construction. What do I mean? For example, when we pull a coach inside that was sitting outside in the lot to do some work on it, we can let it sit in the heated factory for an entire day, but when you go into the coach the next day it will still be frigid. Why? That's because the thing is very well insulated and the outside temperature takes a considerable amount of time to effect the inside temperature (unless of course you turn on the furnace or A/C).
Darrel - we will get your coach's A/C system working properly. Our guys will be on the phone today with Worldwide. If you want more cooling and heating power, you may want to consider the optional bedroom A/C with heat pump.

Ken Washington
12-09-2005, 11:59 AM
Hi Scott,I have emailed Randy Denton several times and he has not responded. He has been working on my problem with the air conditioner but we are not satisfied with what has been done. Moving the sensor and adding more vents in the living area has helped a little but in 90+ degree weather sitting in the sun we can only get it down to 80 degrees at best! I would think Heartland would work with me on putting the second heat pump/air conditioner in a unit that cost $70,000 plus! We are not camping in extreme conditions and just want to be comfortable in what we feel is the best unit we have ever had.

12-09-2005, 01:01 PM
We do have a heat pump and ac unit also,but the ac just puts out cool air. When we bought it in January of 2005 it worked fine. I understand they can't check the freon and recharge it if low? ddj

12-09-2005, 02:02 PM
I will instruct Randy to get with Worldwide on what else we can do to increase air flow in your coach. As far as sitting in the sun in 90 degree + temperatures, with all of the windows in your coach - I hope you have the dual panes (thermal), because if you don't, then you are loosing all kinds of energy efficiency through all of that glass. A lot of people want to concentrate on wall R-value, when in reality, with the windows being as large as they are - the majority of your heating and cooling efficiency depends on whether or not you have dual pane windows. Just a thought.
As far as Heartland paying for you to have a second A/C, I'm sorry but that would not be fair to everybody else who paid to have a second one installed, knowing that they would benefit from the extra cooling and heating power.


12-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Ken, sorry about the Worldwide note, I was getting you and Darrel confused. My fault. I'm not sure which dealer you are working with.

12-09-2005, 02:11 PM
With our 3400 BigHorn in 90+ degrees we start early in the morning too start cooling down the coach we aiso make sure the vents make a circle movement in the coach which works alot better. We also turn on the ceiling fan and keep most of the shades down where the sun is shineing in, by so doing the coach will stay 72 degrees. However if we wait until it gets hot inside it is hard to cool down for the day at which time we are not very happy because we do not have a cool coach. Evans & Lana

Ken Washington
12-09-2005, 10:43 PM
Scott, We bought our Landmark from Bill Plemmons RV. I did not mean to sound like Heartland should GIVE us a free air conditioner, but our unit has spent almost two months since July 28th. in service waiting on parts and advice from Heartland on how and what to do with numerous problems. We have had more problems with this unit than all the other trailers we have owned put together. I will admit that some of our problems were dealers fault. It would be nice to get a little help considering all the trouble we have had.

12-18-2005, 07:45 PM
Hi Scott,
We sent you an email this past week and are wondering if you received it. We were hoping to take care of some warranty issues.

Please let us know what more we can do to speed up the process.

Thank you,
Darrel and Pam Jensen

01-14-2006, 09:51 PM
WHEN WE PURCHASED OUR gRAND Canyon they told us it was a four season coach,I looked at the windows and it said 1/4 safety glass ,is that considered dual pane?

01-17-2006, 08:10 AM
The standard windows on a Heartland Landmark or Bighorn or Sundance for that matter are "safety glass" windows. Dual Pane windows or "thermal pane" as some people call them - are an option.
Personally, with all of the talk about wall construction and R-values, I would say that if a person is seriously interested in the most energy efficient coach, that dual pane windows would have to be their first choice. Why? Just look at all of the glass in your coach. It doesn't take a scientist to tell us where the majority of the heat and cold loss is occuring - it is through the glass. With larger and larger picture windows and windows on every wall of the slide rooms, etc. - thermal pane windows are going to be your best best to provide the maximum energy efficiency.


01-30-2006, 03:42 PM
Scott, you talked about moving the thermostats I have an 06 Gloden Gate with 2 A/C uints it is hard to cool the living room area and hard to get it heated without space heaters. The heater hardly ever cycle I had to refill my propane after 2 days thermo set on 72 degrees. My thermostats or locations 1 is on the right when entering the bedroom and the other is around the corner by the sink. I talking about forty degree temp for heating you can feel the cold coming through the window frames. Cooling the living area is hard to and I bought my trailer in November the A/C makes a lot of noise but very little air flow from the vents even if you change the A/C to rear cooling. PS I really like my Golden Gate, looking forward to using it for many a year.

01-30-2006, 03:57 PM
Let's get your coach into the dealer and we will see what we can do to check the furnace boot where the furnace goes through the floor and also the A/C vents.
We'll figure it out and get the air flowing better.