Heartland published weights

wittmeba

Member
Hello,

I am very interested in a Heartland product, but I am curious what it is about the RV industry that they never update their brochure weights. They reprint, republish and add new floorplans but the published weights are far from close.

It isnt just Heartland...they are all the same. I have yet to see a rig weigh in at less than 8-10% over the published weight and pin weights are worse than that. I dont believe it is options. They are just too far off.

What would it take for the mfg every 3 months or so to put 1 one the scale as they go out the door. Then reflect the real weights in the publications and their websites.

I keep reading about those that have actually weighed their rig combinations, I am becoming so discouraged, I may look elsewhere or keep what I have.

Rv'ers make big decisions selecting what they feel is the 'right' TV based on published information available. I think the RV industry should have more respect for their potential buyers.

Thanks for reading.
Bruce
 

Shadowchek

Well-known member
You are right it makes it very difficult and it is lengths also. Part of the problem is that if one company is totally up front about there weights then they would lose a lot of sales to the companies that are still fudging them. There seems to be more people out there that either don't know their weight or length or just don't want to know than people that want to know or care. We have relatives that have a montana 2985 they say it is 30' I measured it when they weren't around and it is 33.5'. Our 3400 Rl is 37.5'. It isn't right but everyone needs to do it or no one will. It is frustrating but with enough research you can figure out weights and lengths of your favorite 5ver under consideration. Or you could be like the majority and live in denial. This for the most part doesn't seem to be the case with the people on this forum. The people here seem to care about these issues.

Thanks

Greg
 

leftyf

SSG Stumpy-VA Terrorist
Know what the difference between a fairytale and a manufacters brochure?

A fairy tale starts out "Once upon a time...."

The brochure starts out "The pin weight of your RV is....."
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
We bought our Bighorn through a dealer that also sold Jayco. We told mr that he has to scale every Jayco he sells and put a sticker on it with the actual weight of that unit. I can understand why a manufacturer can't publish an actual weight but I think dealers or the manufacturers should be required to weigh a unit prior to delivery. I remember reading a post a couple years ago on this forum that listed the weights of the available options. Something like that would be good for dealers to have for customers special ordering a unit. They could at least calculate a weight prior to placing an order. The options I ordered on my 3400 added about 800# to the label weight. Them dual panes are heavy! Along with the trail air hitch.
 

techman

Member
I was told that the model number is the inside dimensions and not the bumper to hitch length. Our 28BHS is 31' from bumper to hitch. I am not sure if 5th wheels are measured the same.
Mike
 

wittmeba

Member
Thanks to all, Greg and Ray in particular. All good comments.

Personally (but Im sure there are some) Im not nearly as concerned with the length because whether it is 32' or 35' long, it is a long trailer. If I were buying a storage shed to park it, it would then be a concern. The difference in length will have little affect on towability.

The issue I have is most seem to buy their TV first, then an RV. Pin weights will vary more than the rig because the same options located in a different location of a similar rig will have a different affect on the pin weight. The same options in another rig, unless physically larger/smaller, should not change the GVW.

If the mfg tells you 'Your counter is solid..." do you have to break it open to verify that? Does that differ from learning what your 'real' pin or GVW is?

Im not picking on Heartland, but this is the mfg we are now most intertested. However, their numbers are more out of line than most. Thats why I may look elsewhere.

About doing research - true. But even those that get theirs weighed, it often seems they walk away without understanding the numbers - they post asking for clarification and when reviewed they dont always make sense so they become useless. You never know what others carry or how they load their rig. And many just post what they 'feel' theirs weighs.

Part of the problem is that if one company is totally up front about there weights then they would lose a lot of sales to the companies that are still fudging them.
If everyone knows they all lie about their published weights, what advantage does any particular mfg gain? I as a potential buyer would just like accurate information to make an objective decision on what I buy.

It seems for a mfg to obtain the actual weights is the easy part. Getting the mfg to publish them and be more truthful is a little tougher.

lefty f - Exactly!

I always laugh when I hear busineses say 'We want to be industry leaders' and all they do is follow their competition. ... we cant publish correct numbers because XYZ doesnt...

Thanks to all.
Bruce
 

mrcomer

Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
It was always my understanding that the weights published were for the base model trailer in that particular floorplan. So if you add any type of option then that all goes out the door right a way. I am suprised, well I guess I just never really put any thought into the fact that something like High Gloss Gel Coat could weigh as much as 800Lbs on a coach with a length of 38 feet or so. Dual pane windows also adds alot of weight. I do agree with you though on that the manufacturer should weigh the completed unit on the way out the door. Makes perfect sense. Maybe we should dwell on this more in the "Ask the factory section" to get their attention. We made strides this way before and could really pull this one off I think.

Mark
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
When we were at the last rally (Branson) I like many others had our rigs weighed. I was totally surprised that my pin weight was lighter than what I thought but my my axle weights were over and my understanding on talking to Weigh-It that most tire/axle weights are very close to being at their maximum carrying capacity. This is not a Heartland problem but a problem by all rv manufacturers. I asked if Heartland could start weighing their coaches as they come off of the line but was told this a a very sensitive subject. Again, I have talked to others and the same holds true with other manufacturers. Some one should take the bull by the horns and do something for safety's sake and start weighing their rigs, so why not let it be Heartland???
 

wittmeba

Member
Thanks, Mark and Tom.

Yes, Im sure Gelcoat is very heavy. But I dont believe this is an option - or so rare the other(?) should be the option with a deduct on weight.

And weights a sensitive subject to whom? It is a sensitive subject to me.

Perhaps the 'leader' could use this as a selling point. "We weigh our rigs - ask our competitors if they do".
 

arisce

Well-known member
Dutchman?

Apparently Dutchman weigh all their trailers as they leave the factory according to the website. Then they put a sticker with the exact weights, at least that is what they claim. So far it is the only manufacturer to do so. If I am wrong please correct me. Thanks.
 

Shadowchek

Well-known member
I agree all manufacturers should have to weigh each unit on the way out the door and post it on the Rig. They should also tell you where they got there length measurement from for those of us who are concerned about that. Another very good idea mentioned is give the base weights of the unit and the weight of the options for those people ordering a unit. The only really tricky part on the last idea is figuring how that will effect your pin weight/axle weight since that depends on the location of the options. At least that would give us a pretty good idea though.

Greg
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
How about requiring the delivering dealer to weigh the unit at the time of delivery and then supply that weight to the buyer. (much like a vehicle odometer statement it could be called the actual weight statement) This could include pin weight. Just an idea.
 

wittmeba

Member
Well, thanks again everyone for your replies.

It seems everyone is in favor of the information being provided, either the specific weights or enough information so one could derive a weight closer than what appears in brochures.

Perhaps Ill take an approach when we are closer to a decision to have the dealer weigh and factor the information into our final decision.

Thanks again.
Bruce
 

chrispitude

Active Member
My Rockwood has a weight sticker inside one of the cabinet doors with the unit's actual dry weight as optioned. We've double-checked it on a scale.

Brochure weights/lengths are also a big sore point with me. On the Rockwood, the brochure weight doesn't include "options" like the fridge, oven, A/C, microwave, hot water heater, etc. At least Heartland has this stuff standard.

But Heartland - fix your brochure lengths please!

- Chris
 

wittmeba

Member
Thanks, Chris for your very direct :) reply/request.

My major focus is on pin and overall weights. The reason is most vehicle (trucks) towing (hoziontal) and hauling (verical) rating are so disproportional. I have followed discussions on the RV.net forum since about 2001 when we first bought.

Towability (horizontal) rating may exceed 20,000# from the mfg recommendations. Hauling (vertical) is so limited respectively, it quickly gets buyers into trouble when selecting a 5th wheel. If you do the math from the TV GVWR you would find most of us wouldnt have a 5th wheel that weigh much more than 5-6000#. This is not an exagguration. Just simple math.

I too request - Heartland, update your brochures, website and inform and train your dealers to promote matching products to what potential buyers may already own. Be a leader.

Im not here to beat up on Heartland, but Im still shopping. You have a great product. Id just like to know for sure what I am buying.

Thanks,
Bruce
 

mrcomer

Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
Shame on you two for looking at another brand's website. shame :p

OK, so how have you been doing. Hope to see you next year in Goshen.

Mark


Apparently Dutchman weigh all their trailers as they leave the factory according to the website. Then they put a sticker with the exact weights, at least that is what they claim. So far it is the only manufacturer to do so. If I am wrong please correct me. Thanks.
 

arisce

Well-known member
BH still #1 in our hearts

I felt guilty just looking at SOB. But you have to know the competition if you are to succeed. Anticipation and Innovation makes Heartland a leader in the field. Besides a lot of people come to the website for info on general knowledge about the industry. I have been an ambassador for Heartland since 2005: we have #680 on our BH. We still get lots of questions about the BH and lots of praise. When people ask I like to be informed. BTW, after all that looking and informing there is no comparison with our product. I would not trade it in for anything-except perhaps for a Cyclone.
Hi Mark,
We certainly missed all our friends but we could not attend the rally in 2008. But we will be there in 2009 with our BH. Take care and will see you at the rally.
Your Canadians friends.
 

mrcomer

Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
Hey Bill and Karen,
Would you be interested in a Landmark toy hauler? We have been pushing this a bit here on the forum.

Mark
 

arisce

Well-known member
By all means

Yes, yes and yes. That would be the ideal. Or a BH toy hauler. Not fussy. Build it and they will buy. I even have some ideas as to how the layout should be. This of course is from an artistic POV and not an engineering one.
P.S. To set the record straight. I am not paid by Heartland. The product, the support and this forum makes me an ambassador for Heartland. As long as they meet these requirements I will continue to be one. Home is where the heart is. Our BH is our second home but it is still a home-home away from home.
 

wittmeba

Member
OK, Im back.

Now be nice...just because Ive been looking at others. :)

More questions:

Our SunnyBrook is wonderful...just too small now considering full timing.

Camping World carries Cedar Creek and Montana. Both offer floor plans we like - basically the 3500RL or a variation of such. Salesman indicated that Montana doesnt use all Gelcoat on their exterior where Cedar Creek does. I believe the difference is the exterior doors are just fiberglass which is a little rougher texture than Gelcoat. Not a big deal. I believe our SunnyBrook is the same. What does Heartland do?

The 3500RL has upgraded axles to 7000#. Why would they upgrade their axles on a rig that IS NOT listed as their heaviest by the brochure? This really concerns me as pin weight is very very important. Im trying to retain our F250 with airbags - love the vehicle.

Mark - do you pull your new rig with the same 2500HD? How does the weight compare to your 3500RL? Did you ever weigh your 3500RL?

Im just concerned that we might be stretching the ability of our TV. Cedar Creek seems to be the lightest from their publications and what others reflect from their actual weighing of their rigs.

I dont want to buy something just because of the pin weight, but it is a factor.
 
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