Bio Diesel?

navyAZ1

Well-known member
We are traveling in the Mid-West and the West for the next few months and have been seeing a lot of Bio Diesel available out here and it's about 20 cents per gallon cheaper. Does anyone know do you have to have anything done to allow you to run this stuff? And is it an okay fuel to use? We have a 2007 Chevy Duramax.
 

bigredtruck

Well-known member
I work in the oil industry and here is what I remember hearing - You don't have to have anything done, however, some people say it causes some engine problems. I know both the Canadian and US governments are forcing Bio fuels on us in the near future, so if you trust them, then it's probably OK. having said that, it has a fairly high freezing point, so try to stay away from it in the winter.
 

pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
Pro
  1. higher cetane rating
  2. more power (higher cetane rating)
  3. better fuel economy (higher cetane rating)
  4. very clean fuel
  5. cleaner exhaust emmisions
  6. will clean your fuel system. It's a great solvent and dino diesel is really a very dirty fuel......
  7. best fuel lubricant out there.... tested highest in lab HFRR testing of fuel additives, see chart, the lower the score the better the results.
  8. most engine manufacturers approve of at least a B5 blend, some have approved B20 but check with the engine manufacturer.
  9. first diesel in the world ran on peanut oil
  10. No wars over oil
Con
  1. gels faster in the winter
  2. will gradually eat rubber components like o rings and seals (problem is in old trucks and once they upgrade hoses and o rings problem goes away for good. Modern engines no longer use regular rubber o rings or hose in fuel systems.
  3. cleans your fuel system, this is where most people have a problem and blame it on the fuel. Carry spare fuel filters when you first start running it on trucks that have been burning dino diesel for many miles, not a problem on a new truck with few miles. I have seen trucks go through 6 filters before the fuel system was finally clean and didn't cause any more problems. Yes diesel is that dirty.
  4. harder to find
 

flamingknitter

Well-known member
Con: The fair pig I bought this year was over $2.00/pound. Food jumped from $8.00 to $22.00 per bag. We barely have corn in our grocery store this summer.
 

pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
Con: The fair pig I bought this year was over $2.00/pound. Food jumped from $8.00 to $22.00 per bag. We barely have corn in our grocery store this summer.

WRONG

Bio diesel is being produced from soy bean oil, what does that have to do with the price of corn.

Ethanol for say E85 GASOLINE is made from corn and ethanol production didn't cause a shortage.

Corn used for ethanol production is the type grown for livestock not human consumption so there's a pretty good chance it didn't cause the shortage on your dinner table.

Prices are also driven up by market speculators and speculators caused the "Tortilla Crisis", no kidding.

Article from the Department of Natural Resources

Ethanols effect on corn prices is about 30 cents per bushel

Article from National Corn Growers Association

There is so much talk and blame about corn prices being driven by ethanol by people that there is a real push for an alternative to corn such as cellulosic ethanol, which can be made from a number of plant by-products, including cornstalks
 

bigredtruck

Well-known member
The cost of everything is up and although the Food for Fuel argument is good, so is the fact that crude oil is twice the price is was 18 months ago. The price of fuel drives everything whether it is bio or dino.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Thanks everyone for your help. I think I will stay with #2 diesel on my 99 F350 with 210000 miles. Seems like everything might come apart with B5
 

christianson

Active Member
I have been using Bio diesel in my last three trucks I like it ,gets better milage , quieter, the truck runs better and why give the arabs that extra money. I have F 350 08 Ford it works great.
 

rideblue

Active Member
jmgratz, I would recommend using B5 in your truck instead of the ultra low sulfur #2 diesel. The engine needs lubrication, more importantly, the fuel system. Sulfur is a lubricant and our engines (mine's a Ford 6.0) weren't designed to use the ultra low sulfur diesel(15ppm). I use B5, and have been for about a year, no problems, easier starts, seems to run smoother. When I am on a trip and B5 is not available, I use an additive for better lubrication. I know for my truck, Ford says it's ok to use B5. For the newer Ford trucks, they are designed to use ULS diesel only. Not sure how Ford feels about putting in B5 in these motors. I can't see it hurting them either.
 

pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
Sulfur is a lubricant

That's a misunderstood myth. I was a Petroleum laboratory tech for 5 years. Here's the quick and dirty on ULSD.

Sulfur is not a lubricant. Problem is that the harsh process used to remove the sulfer also removes naturally occuring lubricants in the fuel.

This refining process unfortunatly also lowers the aromatic content and density in the fuel which results in lower energy content hence lower fuel economy.

In 2005 the American Society for Testing and Materials, AKA ASTM, put in a Lubricity specification in ASTM specification D975 for all diesel fuel. The lubricity spec didn't exist prior to this change which is why there were so many problems when they first went to LSD years ago and people have been freaking out about ULSD since it was announced to become mandatory. Lubricity additives are added back into ULSD to bring the fuel to specification so it can be sold.

Now is it OK to add a good lubricant that actually works to your fuel. Absolutly, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
jmgratz, I would recommend using B5 in your truck instead of the ultra low sulfur #2 diesel. The engine needs lubrication, more importantly, the fuel system. Sulfur is a lubricant and our engines (mine's a Ford 6.0) weren't designed to use the ultra low sulfur diesel(15ppm). I use B5, and have been for about a year, no problems, easier starts, seems to run smoother. When I am on a trip and B5 is not available, I use an additive for better lubrication. I know for my truck, Ford says it's ok to use B5. For the newer Ford trucks, they are designed to use ULS diesel only. Not sure how Ford feels about putting in B5 in these motors. I can't see it hurting them either.

I have been using an additive for quite awhile now. I had a mechanic a Laramie Wy Ford tell me that they have been having tons of turbo failures in their Fords due to the ULS diesel fuel because it does not have the lubrication the engines need. (Another scam the Federal Government forced on us) Ever since I have used the additive pictured below. You can get it from Wal-Mart. Also my father-in-law (now deceased) worked in the lab at Texaco Refinery in Port Arthur, Texas. One of his jobs was to test C-tain on diesel fuel and they would run engines and then check them. He said the additives to boost c-tain are helpful for the engines. Thanks for the info also. I hope to get another 250000 miles out of that truck. :D
 

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pmmjarrett

Not just tired..... RETIRED!!!
I had a mechanic a Laramie Wy Ford tell me that they have been having tons of turbo failures in their Fords due to the ULS diesel fuel because it does not have the lubrication the engines need.


Jim, find another Mochanic, sounds like he is just repeating something he heard somebody else say and he doesn't understand Fords TSB 06-4-12, 06-23-16 if he read it at all. Turbo problems are caused by coking and carbon buildup and can be caused by many things.


Coking (carbon) Deposits in Turbo and/or EGR Valve:
Coking deposits are usually a build up of unburned fuel or oil in the exhaust system and related components (valves, turbo, EGR valve). This can be caused by poor fuel quality, overfueling/leaking injectors, idling for excessive periods of time (especially in cold ambient temperatures), low engine operating temperatures, injection timing (calibration) or oil consumption. Unburned fuel usually appears as white smoke, but over time the coking condition can result in excessive black smoke. Coking depositis can plug the EBP sensor tube, foul the EBP sensor, cause the EGR valve to stick open, block the EGR cooler, plug the MAP (boost) sensor hose, or cause the variable turbo vanes to stick open (no power/boost) or closed (excessive backpressure, black smoke, popping noise, bucking). The cause of the coking issue should be identified before replacing parts to prevent reoccurance. If poor fuel is suspected, use Stanadyne Performance or Motorcraft PM-17-A Cetane Boost. TSB 06-4-12, 06-23-16.






Hey found Fords position on Biodiesel perusing the TSB bulletins

Ford's Position on Biodiesel:
Ford is advising that any of their vehicles powered by a diesel engine, regardless of manufacturer, may exhibit engine or fuel system problems when using fuels with greater than 5% Biodiesel. Any problems when using fuels containing more than 5% Biodiesel should be referred to the fuel manufacturer. Ford only recomends using fuels containing no more than 5% Biodiesel (B5) in their diesel powered vehicles. In addition, as per World Wide Fuel Charter (WWFC) catagory 1-3, fatty acid methyl esters (FAME) must meet EN14214 and ASTM D 6751 specifications. Broadcast Message 0884, 3626, 4942.
It is also recommended to change the oil using the severe duty schedule (3000 mile; no later than 5000 miles) and replace the fuel filter every other oil change (no later than 10,000 miles)
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
We ran B5 this last July on our vacation in the Dakotas. Ran just fine and seemed to run a bit better and smoother. Fuel mileage didnt seem to change much. Averaged 16.3 for 3400 miles, no 5er in tow. Bob :D:D:eek:
 

boatto5er

Founding VA Chap Ldr (Ret)
My son (owns a '95 F250 w/ the 7.3L) refines his own biodiesal from used cooking oil he picks up from restuarants. Filters it two or three times before refining it with a methonal blend. He built his own mini-refinery (water heater, condenser, etc). It works great. He runs anywhere from 100% to 50% mix depending on how fast he can get his cooking oil pickups and refining done.

He went thru the o-ring and hose replacements and multiple fuel filters routine at first, but hasn't had any problems since he got all the hoses changed out. He's also burning it in his VW Passat diesal.

Having said all that, we just bought a new F-250, with the 6.4L and it has a sticker in it specifically saying that 5% bio is OK, but anything greater can void the warranty.
 
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