F-250 gasoline--- should I switch?

WalkTheLine · Sep 19, 2017

I have a tough question (for me) for ya'll and I have been trying to crunch the numbers to see what I should do but I want to appeal to the court of popular opinion to see what others think. I have a 2016 F-250 Super Duty that I brought 2 years ago before I ended up with my travel trailer a few months ago. I love my truck but it has a gasoline engine. I brought it initially that way as I just use it to drive to work (10 miles/day total) and didn't haul much except for my flatbed tilt trailer around town and my boat to the launch so it was perfect.

Now I have a Prowler Lynx 32 travel trailer and even though the truck pulls it without any problems on flat ground, the fuel mileage sucks....on a 600 mile ride, we averaged 7.7mpg and there were some rolling hills. When the truck pulls the trailer the RPMs are up in the 3-4k range and sometimes redlines at 6 on steep hills. Now, I am not a full time RVer and we aim to just go on 3 day weekenders no more than 300 miles one way and we are in SE Louisiana so no major mountains either but I look around everywhere and everyone uses the Ford Powerstroke diesels.

My question is, since my truck is still quite new and cherry (only 16K miles), should I consider trading her straight up for a slightly older F-250 but with the diesel engine? I have been trying to calculate fuel mileage and costs and my numbers show me that it is not worth to trade plus my truck is awesome for me aside from the above, but I wanted to see what others thought.

Thanks!

Dawnnira · Sep 19, 2017

Whenever you could come up with a legit excuse to buy a new truck it's a no-brainer but your truck sounds pretty new and it would probably be very tough financially to take that kind of hit you might want to hold out a little while longer but when it comes down to it diesel is definitely the way to tow, the 2020 super duty is what I'm angling for

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alexb2000 · Sep 19, 2017

If the gas is doing the job even at 7.7mpg you are not going to save enough money for it ever to pay off. With my 2016 F250 6.7 towing a 30' 5er I get about 10.5-11 depending, but yes towing with a diesel is the hot ticket. Now if you just want one, that is another thing.

'Lil Guy' · Sep 19, 2017

there is no comparison to towing with a diesel. The low RPM torque range is what you want. All the HP and Torque on a gas rig come in at the higher RPMs. I got tired of listening to the downshifting and the higher temps on the motor, transmission, and brakes. The exhaust brake is a life saver. JMO. I took the hit 3 times ending with the 3500. The 2500 would be good for your rig. The hit will kill you on the upside down if you trade it in. Boy do I know.lol

CoveredWagon · Sep 19, 2017

On the other hand you'll never get more on a trade or sale than you will now. You might wait till the bitter end and see if you can find a year end sale on a 2017.
I understand liking what you have and not wanting to trade. In my case the deal was forced. I had a beautiful 2014 that was what we considered the ideal vehicle for our needs. However when we ordered the Bighorn the die was cast. It had to be a diesel. I have seen a few pulled (and struggled) with gas.

Mattman · Sep 19, 2017

That seems kinda low IMO unless your really getting it. My ex has almost 200k on it. I get 9 around Michigan unless I am hammering. Check your camper tires to make sure they are wearing right and your axles are aligned. User Aprodoc I think told me his was off.
Obviously a Powerstroke is better to tow. But factor maintenance extra cost. Higher fuel cost. More oil, exhaust fluid, and used truck has a previous owner problems maybe. Might carry a higher insurance.
Do you plan to jump to a bigger camper in the future? Maybe you want to wait for that and go to the 350 DRW.
If money is no object. Go for it. But I'd hold out for something bigger in the future.
Something to consider.

WalkTheLine · Sep 20, 2017

Thanks everyone. I will definitely take a hit on a trade in so that's why the numbers don't work for me. 7.7mpg does sound sort of low, I admit, and that was on a 600 mile round trip deal and I was doing probably 63mph most of the time. Maybe I should slow it down a little. I will check the tires and axles to make sure no issues there. One other thought, I do have trailer brakes...any chance the brakes are causing some drag on the trailer tires? Maybe I should turn the gain down some?

In any case, I will keep my truck and maybe in a few years trade her in for a new Powerstroke diesel. Now I have an excuse!

Thanks!

NYSUPstater · Sep 20, 2017

Initial cost of a new diesel is upwards of 6-8 grand VS a gas engine. Yes you will take a hit on a trade if you traded it in. Will take a while to re-coupe the cost of going w/ a diesel in the 1st place. 10 miles 1 way to work isn't all that bad and engine will get a chance to get up to temp. I lost 1.5 mpgs w/ new coach (10.5 to 9.0) doing same speed (70). Once the warranty expires and engine needs work, it will get $$$ cuz of the emissions. Will be true for the big 3.

Another way to look at it. Previous truck was a '03 F250 w/ the 6.Uh-Oh diesel. It wasn't w/o a couple issues, but overall, it ran great and towed old coach very well. Would have liked to have kept it, but just didn't have deep enough pockets for future repairs. Anyways, before my FIL passed away, he asked me if I regretted getting the diesel due to issues I had w/ the 6.0 at the time. Replied back w/a "No". Just loved the power and reasonable mpgs. Oh the rattle from being a diesel was nice as well. Forward to the new truck and still wouldn't be w/o it. Don't agree w/ cost of new trucks nowadays, but it's a sad fact of life.

If you decide to upgrade to a new(er) truck at some point, consider going to a 350 unless you simply just do not see yourself towing anything heavier ever in the future. Our 350 weighs in at 8500 full of fuel and GVW of 11,500. A 250's GVW is just 10,000 and if same set up as mine, will weigh the same and not a lot left for capacity. Old '03 was the same and was over by 2,000 all the way around. Just some food for thought.

WalkTheLine · Sep 20, 2017

NYSUPstater said:
Initial cost of a new diesel is upwards of 6-8 grand VS a gas engine. Yes you will take a hit on a trade if you traded it in. Will take a while to re-coupe the cost of going w/ a diesel in the 1st place. 10 miles 1 way to work isn't all that bad and engine will get a chance to get up to temp. I lost 1.5 mpgs w/ new coach (10.5 to 9.0) doing same speed (70). Once the warranty expires and engine needs work, it will get $$$ cuz of the emissions. Will be true for the big 3.

Another way to look at it. Previous truck was a '03 F250 w/ the 6.Uh-Oh diesel. It wasn't w/o a couple issues, but overall, it ran great and towed old coach very well. Would have liked to have kept it, but just didn't have deep enough pockets for future repairs. Anyways, before my FIL passed away, he asked me if I regretted getting the diesel due to issues I had w/ the 6.0 at the time. Replied back w/a "No". Just loved the power and reasonable mpgs. Oh the rattle from being a diesel was nice as well. Forward to the new truck and still wouldn't be w/o it. Don't agree w/ cost of new trucks nowadays, but it's a sad fact of life.

If you decide to upgrade to a new(er) truck at some point, consider going to a 350 unless you simply just do not see yourself towing anything heavier ever in the future. Our 350 weighs in at 8500 full of fuel and GVW of 11,500. A 250's GVW is just 10,000 and if same set up as mine, will weigh the same and not a lot left for capacity. Old '03 was the same and was over by 2,000 all the way around. Just some food for thought.

Cool. That is helpful. One correction- I drive 5 miles each way to work, so it is 10 miles R/T and in the winter the gas engine is barely warmed up and the tranny is still cold so that was a factor in going to gas. What I am going to do is see how much traveling we do in the next 3-4 years and if we're going strong, I like your idea of the 350.

BigGuy82 · Sep 20, 2017

I didn't need an F350 diesel dually to pull my Bighorn. And every time I'm accelerating up a grade or using the exhaust brake on a steep downhill I smile a lot. NOTHING pulls like a diesel. For towing, nothing beats a dually. Want perfection? Throw in Air Lifts and a Flex-Air pin box to achieve perfection. I don't have a clue how they respond to daily short trips so I can't help you there.

You'll hear all sorts of opinions on all of this, but as for me, I have achieved towing bliss.

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WalkTheLine · Sep 21, 2017

BigGuy82 said:
I didn't need an F350 diesel dually to pull my Bighorn. And every time I'm accelerating up a grade or using the exhaust brake on a steep downhill I smile a lot. NOTHING pulls like a diesel. For towing, nothing beats a dually. Want perfection? Throw in Air Lifts and a Flex-Air pin box to achieve perfection. I don't have a clue how they respond to daily short trips so I can't help you there.

You'll hear all sorts of opinions on all of this, but as for me, I have achieved towing bliss.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice! I will put all that on my wish list. I checked out your specs on your sig line...that's a nice set up. Thanks for the input.

Tsys100718 · Sep 22, 2017

The other parts of the torque to power ratio towing discussion that gets overlooked, and have not been mentioned in this thread is the final gear ratio of the rear differential. Or possibly both diffs if you feel you absolutely HAVE to carry the extra 1000+ required to have 4x4. And tire size. Since both play into the fuel economy equation.

This past year, my wife and I were shopping for a new TT. We settled on the Trail Runner 302SLE, which has a dry weight in the 6,700 range. After selecting the TT we wanted, we moved on the TV. I drove tractor trailer for years, so I am well versed in the pulling power of the diesel engine.
When we settled on a TV, we selected the Ram 1500 with the 5.7 L Hemi, 6 spd Auto transmission (because you play **** trying to find a manual in any dealer stock), 20 in wheels/tires and 3:23 gears. I also upsized the tires on the new trailer from the factory 15's to a taller 16 tire, with a higher speed rating. This creates less road friction because the tires don't fully rotate as often, thus increasing MPG.

I selected the combination exactly for the reasons you chose your truck. I put FAR more miles on not towing than I do towing anything of any consequence. The question I have for you is; the MPG you referenced, was that actually calculated or what is shown on the dash display from the PCM?

Whether I am towing or not, I set my cruise 5 mph over the posted limit. To date, my Ram is delivering a calculated 22 mpg highway and 15.2 city, while the dash display reads 20.3 and 13.8 mpg respectively. Towing mileage is calculated at 7.8 and a dash display of 6.7. This is done by keeping the RPM as close to 2k-2500 not towing and 3k-3500 with Tow/Haul on. It's difficult to keep the RPMs that low at times, but those are the RPM ranges that produce the best fuel economy.

I am curious if the stated MPGs, in this thread, for the diesels was calculated or the PCM displayed MPG.

So personally, I would keep what you have.

If you want TRULY fantastic towing mileage, go for an S Model International (Durastar) Crew Cab with a 330 Cummins(N9 governed at 2200 RPM, versus the L9- 350 governed at 2100), an Eaton 10 spd transmission, 4:35 final gears and 22.5 tires. This combination has a rated mpg yield between 16-18 mpg and if you opted to add another 100 gal fuel tank, you'd have a range of almost 3k miles. The nicest thing would be that a custom bed could be made that would allow for carrying a smaller vehicle for local use when parked. If you tow a 5er, simply have the sides closed in around the 5 wheel and no CDL is required.

This is the TV, as of right now, my wife and I plan on buying when I retire again in another few years and go 80% full-time!

Just my 2 pennies worth!

WalkTheLine · Sep 24, 2017

Tsys100718 said:
The other parts of the torque to power ratio towing discussion that gets overlooked, and have not been mentioned in this thread is the final gear ratio of the rear differential. Or possibly both diffs if you feel you absolutely HAVE to carry the extra 1000+ required to have 4x4. And tire size. Since both play into the fuel economy equation.

This past year, my wife and I were shopping for a new TT. We settled on the Trail Runner 302SLE, which has a dry weight in the 6,700 range. After selecting the TT we wanted, we moved on the TV. I drove tractor trailer for years, so I am well versed in the pulling power of the diesel engine.
When we settled on a TV, we selected the Ram 1500 with the 5.7 L Hemi, 6 spd Auto transmission (because you play **** trying to find a manual in any dealer stock), 20 in wheels/tires and 3:23 gears. I also upsized the tires on the new trailer from the factory 15's to a taller 16 tire, with a higher speed rating. This creates less road friction because the tires don't fully rotate as often, thus increasing MPG.

I selected the combination exactly for the reasons you chose your truck. I put FAR more miles on not towing than I do towing anything of any consequence. The question I have for you is; the MPG you referenced, was that actually calculated or what is shown on the dash display from the PCM?

Whether I am towing or not, I set my cruise 5 mph over the posted limit. To date, my Ram is delivering a calculated 22 mpg highway and 15.2 city, while the dash display reads 20.3 and 13.8 mpg respectively. Towing mileage is calculated at 7.8 and a dash display of 6.7. This is done by keeping the RPM as close to 2k-2500 not towing and 3k-3500 with Tow/Haul on. It's difficult to keep the RPMs that low at times, but those are the RPM ranges that produce the best fuel economy.

I am curious if the stated MPGs, in this thread, for the diesels was calculated or the PCM displayed MPG.

So personally, I would keep what you have.

If you want TRULY fantastic towing mileage, go for an S Model International (Durastar) Crew Cab with a 330 Cummins(N9 governed at 2200 RPM, versus the L9- 350 governed at 2100), an Eaton 10 spd transmission, 4:35 final gears and 22.5 tires. This combination has a rated mpg yield between 16-18 mpg and if you opted to add another 100 gal fuel tank, you'd have a range of almost 3k miles. The nicest thing would be that a custom bed could be made that would allow for carrying a smaller vehicle for local use when parked. If you tow a 5er, simply have the sides closed in around the 5 wheel and no CDL is required.

This is the TV, as of right now, my wife and I plan on buying when I retire again in another few years and go 80% full-time!

Just my 2 pennies worth!

Sorry for the delay- was a crazy weekend. I am getting the MPG numbers off the dash readout. So, you're saying it's inaccurate maybe? I think the computer gets the numbers by a calculation of air flow or something like that? In any case, what's the best way to calculate fuel mileage other than draining the tank, filling her up with exactly X gallons then running her till she stalls?

Also, thanks for the Durastar advice--- I'm gonna have a good starting point when it comes time to replace my 250 gasser in a few years!

JohnD · Sep 24, 2017

For your Prowler, your truck is more than enough for your needs.

Lots of cost comparisons above for purchase and fuel prices, but nothing mentions maintainence costs.

Diesel maintainence expenses are much higher (I like the sound of $40 oil changes, for example).

When I bought my 2015 Chevy 2500HD gasser it was to pull our previous Heartland Trail Runner:

My main thing was I wanted a gas engine with the 4.10 rear end as we camp in the Rockies a lot,
and 85 miles a day to work.

In three years and two weeks since I bought it with 72 miles on the odometer, it just rolled over 60,000 miles
last week on our way back from the Colorado HOC Rally at Mesa Verde.

And this 2500HD was way more truck than I needed for that camper.

I get between 7-8 mpg when hauling and around 12-13 empty.

My next truck will be a diesel, but I'm not gonna buy one until I have to!

When we purchased our Prowler 5th-wheeler, we made sure it was within the towing specs of the truck
since it was not yet a year old.

LBR · Sep 24, 2017

WalkTheLine said:
In any case, what's the best way to calculate fuel mileage other than draining the tank, filling her up with exactly X gallons then running her till she stalls?

You could always fill the tank up full, then...

Drive "X" amount of miles to a fueling station, then...

Fill tank up again with "Y" amount of gallons, then...

Divide "Y" into "X", then...

Your MPG appears on the calculator.

NYSUPstater · Sep 25, 2017

To elaborate some on LBR's post, fill up till nozzle clicks off. Put cap on and drive. Next fill up, do same thing. Subtract odometer reading from 1st to 2nd fill up's odometer to get your miles. Take the miles and divide by gallons at 2nd fill up. There's your mpg's. Repeat as necessary.

WalkTheLine · Sep 26, 2017

NYSUPstater said:
To elaborate some on LBR's post, fill up till nozzle clicks off. Put cap on and drive. Next fill up, do same thing. Subtract odometer reading from 1st to 2nd fill up's odometer to get your miles. Take the miles and divide by gallons at 2nd fill up. There's your mpg's. Repeat as necessary.

Hahaha ok there will be some variation with temperature, etc. and speed of fill with regards to gas in the tank plus road conditions and all but I will do that several times on similar roads and see what numbers we get. Thanks!

JohnD · Sep 26, 2017

The computer on my dashboard (2015 Chevy 2500HD) is pretty accurate on the mileage figures.

I've run the numbers off of the gas receipts and they agree with the numbers on the dashboard.

WalkTheLine · Sep 27, 2017

JohnD said:
The computer on my dashboard (2015 Chevy 2500HD) is pretty accurate on the mileage figures.

I've run the numbers off of the gas receipts and they agree with the numbers on the dashboard.

I'm going to check mine asap. I found a nice 40 gal gasoline transfer tank that'll fit nicely in my bed while allowing cover to close. I may get one to increase my range.

JohnD · Sep 27, 2017

I found a nice 40 gal gasoline transfer tank that'll fit nicely in my bed while allowing cover to close. I may get one to increase my range.

I've thought about an extra tank, but I don't want the extra weight.

My 2500HD has a 36 gallon tank, which gets me about 300 miles in the mountains and 400 miles on the flatlands when towing.

I usually need to get out and stretch my TA (tired @$$

) around 200 miles, and there aren't many places where I can't find a gas station within 200 miles.

I have two 5-gallon gas tanks that I can take for a little extra range if I think the need is there.

Me in the middle in Las Vegas, NM . . .

F-250 gasoline--- should I switch?

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