Why 430sq ft?

Razorbackfan

USN Chief
Was at See grins today and was curious as to why the max 430sqft for a 5th wheel? I get the overall length eventually will get to DOT max but with double slides and deeper slides it seems to be a limit to how much room you can get.

I saw a very nice coach today that was 35ft and was awesome. Had deep slides and went to the 430 limit via width which seems better as your pulling less length that way. Was 14k lbs empty but had dual 8k axles, 17.5 H tires with disc brakes. Gvwr was 21k lol and I was like how would you stuff 7k of stuff in that?
 

jgbagwell

Member
Property tax Re: Why 430sq ft?

At what square footage does a travel trailer/RV become real property? Meaning you will be assessed property taxes by the agencies where you register the vehicle.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
My understanding is...

In the 2012 timeframe, the RVIA (Recreational Vehicle Industry Association) and the RPTIA (Recreational Park Trailer Industry Association) came to an agreement on maximum square footage for RVIA sealed RV - 430 square feet.

RVIA sealed means the RV was built to RVIA standards and carries an exterior affixed RVIA seal.

RV makers that have no desire for RVIA certification and/or desires to build RVs larger than 430 square feet may do so.

As a general rule, you won't see RVs over 430 square feet at "most" of the larger RV shows as they are RVIA sanctioned shows. Several of the Custom RV makers that build larger RVs, usually also build some that are within the 430 square foot max and are RVIA sealed. Those are the RVs they bring to the big shows.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Is the 430 SqFt limitation an interior or exterior measurement?

Here's some info I found on the RVIA site. Looks like an outside, setup measurement.

LINK

Manufacturer Total Square Footage Restrictions
Park Model RV, Fifth Wheel & Travel Trailer Manufacturers Notice


Exhibitors are reminded that only those park model RV and travel trailers that do not exceed 400 sq. ft. and fifth wheels that do not exceed 430 sq. ft. of gross area when measured in the set-up mode may be exhibited. Gross area is defined as follows:

Gross area is the total plan area of a recreation vehicle or park model RV measured to the maximum horizontal projection of exterior walls when in the set-up mode.

Calculations used to determine the number of square feet in a recreation vehicle or park model RV shall include all bay windows, expandable rooms, siding, trim, corner moldings and other projections, except overhangs and/or eaves. Expandable room sections, regardless of height are to be included. Lofts contained within the basic unit having ceiling heights less than 5 feet would not constitute additional square footage.

In other words, all parts of a park model RV, fifth wheel trailer or travel trailer that cast a shadow at 12:00 high noon with the roof and eaves removed are to be calculated. Travel trailers and park model RVs that exceed a gross area of 400 sq. ft. and fifth wheels that exceed a gross area of 430 sq. ft., as defined above, will not be permitted to be exhibited in RVIA sponsored shows.

The building floorplan notes the height and width of the overhead doors that will be used to move in units. Dimensions for each exhibit booth are shown as well as ceiling heights in areas of the building where the ceiling height is less than 15 feet. In some areas ceiling clearance is less than 11 feet.

Exhibitors are responsible for providing products that will fit into their exhibit areas. When measuring units for display, include rooftop air conditioners, stacks, roof overhangs, hitches, bay windows, sideview mirrors, ladders, spare tires, bumpers, expandable rooms, etc. When measuring units for display, include in the measurement any devices or appurtenances attached to the unit that stick up or out from the exterior body of the unit. No unit, or any part of a unit or your display materials, may extend outside of the boundaries of your exhibit booth dimensions.

If a unit provided for an exhibitor's booth requires an unreasonable effort on the part of RVIA to move it in because the unit exceeds height restrictions in the display area, or any part of a unit is outside the boundaries of the exhibit, RVIA may, at their discretion, move the display to the next best available space, or delete units from the display. If possible, the manufacturer will be consulted prior to any change; however, there is no guarantee that this can occur. See Sections 2b, 2c, 2d, 9e and 13 of the Manufacturer Terms and Conditions (show rules) for more information on this topic.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 

Razorbackfan

USN Chief
Re: Property tax Re: Why 430sq ft?

At what square footage does a travel trailer/RV become real property? Meaning you will be assessed property taxes by the agencies where you register the vehicle.

In AR where my rv is tagged I have to pay personal property taxes on it just like a car, I guess I was just curious where the number came from but it seems powers at RIVA pull it out if their rear and make it a rule. My toy hauler wasn’t RIVA I guess as it was 53’ long with a 29’ garage lol but now that I do the math maybe it was.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Re: Property tax Re: Why 430sq ft?

...I guess I was just curious where the number came from but it seems powers at RIVA pull it out if their rear and make it a rule...

My recollection was that the RPTIA was concerned about how big towable RVs were getting and felt it threatened in some way, park model trailers. Negotiations ensued and a compromise was reached and from that came the 430 square foot rule. Here again, this is for RVIA sealed RVs only and this is only my recollection.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
There's been some contention with respect to HUD requirements for manufactured homes and the definition of RVs, which are exempt from HUD requirements.

in 1982 RVs were specifically exempted from manufactured housing standards so long as they meet HUD’s definition of an RV which has been:
A recreational vehicle is a vehicle which is:
(1) Built on a single chassis;
(2) 400 Square feet or less when measured at the largest horizontal projections;
(3) Self-propelled or permanently towable by a light duty truck; and
(4) Designed primarily not for use as a permanent dwelling but as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, travel, or seasonal use.
In January 2015 HUD proposed a new definition for the RV exemption.

HUD will commence reviewing for compliance its 1988 standard for measurement to ensure that units over 400 square feet meet HUD's building standards for manufactured homes that enter the first stage of production on or after April I, 2015.

The RVIA and RVDA (dealer association) objected to this definition and proposed alternate language removing square footage from the definition, but allowing a limitation with respect to RVs being used full time.

In early 2016, HUD proposed a revised rule.
This proposed rule is based on a recommendation adopted by the ManufacturedHousing Consensus Committee (MHCC) which would define a recreational vehicle as one built
on a vehicular structure, not certified as a manufactured home, designed only for recreational use
and not as a primary residence or for permanent occupancy, and built and certified in accordance
with either the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 1192-15 or American National
Standards Institute (ANSI) A119.5-09 consensus standards for recreational vehicles. HUD is
adopting the MHCC’s recommendation but modifying it to require certification with the updated
2
ANSI standard, A119.5-15, and by including a requirement that units claiming the ANSI
A119.5-15 exemption prominently display a notice stating that the unit is designed only for
recreational use, and not as a primary residence or permanent dwelling.
(emphasis added)

I haven't been able to find whether a new definition has actually been adopted.
 
Was at See grins today and was curious as to why the max 430sqft for a 5th wheel? I get the overall length eventually will get to DOT max but with double slides and deeper slides it seems to be a limit to how much room you can get.

I saw a very nice coach today that was 35ft and was awesome. Had deep slides and went to the 430 limit via width which seems better as your pulling less length that way. Was 14k lbs empty but had dual 8k axles, 17.5 H tires with disc brakes. Gvwr was 21k lol and I was like how would you stuff 7k of stuff in that?

Who was the manufacturer and what was the model?...,if you remember.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Razorbackfan

USN Chief
Re: Property tax Re: Why 430sq ft?

Wow - 53 feet of rig with a 29 foot garage. That's enormous. What brand was that?

I had it custom made by Vintage with a four post Gemini lift and a chassis Dyno. The living part was 24ft with full bath, kitchen, king bed and dinette. Triple 8k disc brake axles and 17.5 H rated tires. It had a 7k pound pin weight so not many one tons could handle it. I used both an F550 and a Kenworth to pull it. The F550 being a big POS so mostly the Kenworth. Because it had the LQ it was classified as an RV but the only camping I did was at the race track lol.
 

NYSUPstater

Well-known member
Re: Property tax Re: Why 430sq ft?

At what square footage does a travel trailer/RV become real property? Meaning you will be assessed property taxes by the agencies where you register the vehicle.


For Gods sake, don't let Uncle Andy here in NY see this as he'd be all over it in a heartbeat as away to get more $$$ in this state.
 
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