PDA

View Full Version : New Super Duty, new Cyclone, new hitch - what could go wrong?



porthole
12-31-2017, 08:36 PM
I wonder if the hitch had stayed attached if the outcome would have been any different.

(Not our truck and trailer - California incident.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=DOnxT1S4Irw

jbeletti
12-31-2017, 09:04 PM
Wow. Looks like the mounting rails bolts gave way.

porthole
12-31-2017, 09:11 PM
In the comments section:

"Update to incident: I was traveling 40 mph and the light went to yellow switched in less than 2 seconds. I did run the light, it was my fault 100% however after talking to CHP he says these lights are not timed correctly. I could not stop in time, I laid on my horn for what seemed forever (no eye contact from driver) He rear ended the back of my bed. Very scary my son (8) and daughter (5) and wife are all okay. Im a good driver however today was not my day. It could of been a lot worse. Thank you for all the kind words. See you all soon!"

Wmnmy
12-31-2017, 09:26 PM
Glad you guys are ok trucks and rigs can be replaced. Godspeed......

porthole
12-31-2017, 09:45 PM
Glad you guys are ok trucks and rigs can be replaced. Godspeed......

Not our truck and trailer - California incident.

Wmnmy
12-31-2017, 09:47 PM
Whew good news...

alwaysbusy
12-31-2017, 10:13 PM
2 seconds between light displays on a signal cycle would mean this road has a 20 mile speed limit. Given two lanes with a white dashed line I highly doubt the posted limit is 20 mph. If a 2 second cycle is correct, the short cycle would provide inadequate time between perception/reaction. Considering a high deceleration factor with the Cyclone in an emergency stopping situation, it makes the account given by the operator highly plausible. The light signal could very well be the primary contributory factor.

MCTalley
12-31-2017, 11:44 PM
Wow. Looks like the mounting rails bolts gave way.

Same thing ours did a couple years ago when we t-boned the van. Rails look almost the same.

Also, and I know it's not a priority after getting your family out of a wrecked vehicle, but FYI on Fords, pressing the hazard signal switch stops the horn from beeping over and over.

BLR
01-01-2018, 12:33 AM
This is what the setup looked like originally55961

Sent from BLR Logistics

MCTalley
01-01-2018, 12:36 AM
So, best I could tell, he ran a red (due to a short yellow cycle) and realized side traffic was starting to move but not looking his way. Vehicle from the right tagged his pickup truck bed in front of the rear axle, which pushed the axle back on that side and sent his truck swerving to the right, breaking the hitch free and flopping the truck over on its side underneath the front overhang of the fiver.

hoefler
01-01-2018, 05:56 AM
Lifted truck, not enough truck, not enough hitch.

porthole
01-01-2018, 06:27 AM
2nd vehicle in the background (red truck)


55962

rhodies1
01-01-2018, 07:53 AM
I wonder if the hitch had stayed attached if the outcome would have been any different.

(Not our truck and trailer - California incident.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=DOnxT1S4Irw

I watched the recovery video of this incident..It ripped the rear rail completely out of the truck bed and bent the front one like a horseshoe.the hitch unhooked from the rails and was still attached to the trailer pin.Also ripped the rear end out of the truck,broke suspension hangers on passenger side,drive shaft was unhooked from tranny.unit was a 2017 F 250.
There was some front enf scratching to the nose of the trailer.

fastcarsspeed
01-01-2018, 10:49 AM
Lifted truck, not enough truck, not enough hitch.


2017 superduty 250 with a 2 axle toy hauler should be fine. I also wonder what a puck system would like like compared to those rails. The frame on the new trucks are beefed up compared to previous generation fords.

CDN
01-01-2018, 03:02 PM
I was thinking the same. A puck is possibly could have been better.

MCTalley
01-01-2018, 05:57 PM
Another takeaway from the hitch ripping from the bed - nows a good time to rethink your strategy for hooking up your breakaway cable if you currently hook it up to part of your hitch (like we did for three years).

travelin2
01-01-2018, 06:05 PM
Another takeaway from the hitch ripping from the bed - nows a good time to rethink your strategy for hooking up your breakaway cable if you currently hook it up to part of your hitch (like we did for three years).

My breakaway is attached to the side of the bed rail via a snap and an eyebolt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bones
01-01-2018, 06:39 PM
what a mess.

MCTalley
01-01-2018, 10:50 PM
...not enough hitch.

When we t-boned a vehicle a couple years ago, we had more than enough hitch. Rails and mounting system were rated by Reese for up to 24K. We had just installed a new 20K Reese hitch (replacing the previous 16K Reese hitch) a couple months before this happened. (Our trailer, a BC 3950FB, weighed right around the 16K GVWR). The hardware used to hold down the mounting rails, however, were questionably not adequate.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-77bFJ3d/0/44f1d3bb/L/i-77bFJ3d-L.jpg

Note that the rear rail sheared the mounting bolts and pulled up from the bed. The front rail stayed in place, but the pins holding the hitch to the rail pulled clean through the hitch mounting lugs.

Here's another view:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kLTbgmq/0/02d82644/L/i-kLTbgmq-L.jpg

Here's what the frame-mounted base looked like (this is the rear part, behind the axle). You can see it flexed some before the frame rail bolts gave way.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fSn8R6z/0/a89f276d/L/i-fSn8R6z-L.jpg

I contacted Reese asking if they'd like to see pictures and they said yes. I never heard anything back from them. I'm sure their legal department would probably suggest not replying afterwards. Truck was totalled, trailer was eventually fixed and we moved on. (We have a B&W hitch in our current tow rig now).

FYI, this was a 2013 Ford F-350 DRW, so plenty of truck.

cookie
01-01-2018, 11:15 PM
Thanks for those pics Malcolm. I was wondering why, in the video, the front rail was still in the truck rather than pulled out like the back one.
Must have pulled through the leg mounting hole like yours did.

Peace
Dave

Bones
01-02-2018, 06:06 AM
This is definitely going to have me start attaching my cable some where on the truck and not on the hitch.

bwdt
01-02-2018, 08:35 AM
I'm in the process of shopping for a hitch system right now. Trailer is being built. I have been watching videos of systems being installed and was just thinking that the rail system would not hold up in an accident, boy was a right, after seeing this thread. I'm glad to hear that everyone is OK.

Do you think a Gooseneck mounted hitch would hold up better in an accident? My truck is a little older and I was even looking for an aftermarket puck system for it but it doesn't exist. I'm was even thinking a custom made puck system would be stronger then the rail mounted system. Has anyone seen how well a puck system holds up in an accident?

On another note. California (municipalities) are notorious for setting up their lights with short times on yellow to make more revenue, cities have been busted and sued before. You need to get the light timing info and then find out what it is required to be for the speed of the road that the accident happened on. The state might be responsible for the accident if insufficient time was available to stop or clear the intersection. I am moving from Cali to Florida right now and while in Florida I found that every light I come to people are running the reds. I make sure that the intersection is clear before going.

Good luck on your travels.

avvidclif
01-02-2018, 10:36 AM
Would someone point me to the F250 that can carry 3400 lbs of pin weight. That's what my 2 axle Cyclone has. And why my TV needs training wheels.

BLR
01-02-2018, 10:44 AM
The area that this Happened in scares me alittle bit.. Lots of trucks traveling north & south either to catch the 8 east west travel near the Mexican border or to go into Mexico.
On this particular week lots of extra traffic going to Ocotillo Wells and Glamis..

We have been warned from our friends that live in the area, when your light turns green check and make sure it's clear. Lots of people run the lights either by choice or not being able to stop.

In some areas that we travel, when the speed limit is 55 or more with stop lights, they have a warning light in your lane that the stop light ahead is about to change to red. These have only warning lights that they have lights approaching.

Said situation for sure, glad everyone was safe.

Sent from BLR Logistics

Toy1Ton
01-02-2018, 10:53 AM
who's to say how the trailer brakes wear working if at all. I'm sure disc brakes would have made a big deference, perhaps the truck was trying to do most of the braking

porthole
01-02-2018, 11:18 AM
In an accident something has to give.
If the hitch didn't pull out of the frame, something else would have happened.

And my guess would be if none of the steel failed, the trailer would have rolled.

Still hard to imagine the dynamics of this incident given the alleged description from the owner.

Who knows, maybe it won't be long before traffic cam or dash cam footage shows up on the net.

- - - Updated - - -


who's to say how the trailer brakes wear working if at all. I'm sure disc brakes would have made a big deference, perhaps the truck was trying to do most of the braking


Back to the alleged account by the driver, it seems as if there was little to no effort to stop. And perhaps hit the accelerator instead trying to get through quicker.

Either way with an apparent 2 second elapsed time, even properly working disc brakes are not going to stop in time to prevent running a light.

Add up driver time to gather data, process, reaction time, brake time, inherent delay with electric over hydraulic brakes and there is just not enough time.

MTPockets
01-02-2018, 11:55 AM
Lifted truck, not enough truck, not enough hitch.
My thoughts exactly.... wrong Truck, but Im sure other factors primary cause.

porthole
01-02-2018, 11:57 AM
A picture is worth a ..........


55971

JWalker
01-02-2018, 12:26 PM
A picture is worth a ..........


55971

Just a little squat in the rear

fritzwell
01-02-2018, 01:04 PM
Would be interesting to see or know how many of the rail mounting bolts actually were installed into the truck frame. From some the pic that I've seen here it looks like some have missed.

LBR
01-02-2018, 01:26 PM
Don't forget that this truck was T-boned in the bed with a 90 side impact when he was in the intersection. That could even have done serious damage to a puck setup also.

brianlajoie
01-02-2018, 02:55 PM
We almost hit someone a year ago. This lady in a Honda stopped sideways in the middle of the highway after pulling out from a stop sign and we almost hit her. I had my breaks and horn fully engaged. I have since added a set of Hadley air horns and disc brakes to the trailer. I am always in the slow lane and go 10 to 15 mph slower in heavy traffic. I've just had to many times where traffic will stop on a dime and you need to be prepared for it.

I drive s SRW F350 and I can tell you that the F250 truck in the accident is over weight and suspension over loaded. My guess the lift kit and tires did not help the situation either. Glad everyone is ok. Experience is a stern taskmaster.

avvidclif
01-02-2018, 04:27 PM
And a funny along that line that could have been bad. Returning home from camping in the misting rain and going around a 20mph gradual 90 deg turn. Going about 15 in the middle lane. Fruitcake in an Audi in right lane passed on my right. I saw him coming and started slowing, he lost it about the back of my truck. When he came by in front of me he was crossways (90 deg to me) drivers door to my front bumper. He looked at the front of my F350 pulling this huge trailer from about 20' directly in front of me. His eyes were big as saucers and I'm sure his other end was fairly tight or maybe loose, don't know. I had slowed enough to let him continue his spin into the left lane, said a few tacky words, and went on down the road. Time to laugh, we dodged a bullet. I saw in the rear view mirror his karma was great that day as no one in the left lane hit him either. He was on the inside shoulder when I lost sight.

23,000 lbs t-boning an Audi would not have been pretty, even at 15mph.

fastcarsspeed
01-02-2018, 06:38 PM
It really sucks. I know that with the new rig I keep my distance on the road and make sure I give myself plenty of time to stop. I don't think even with disc brakes on the camper would I change my driving style. If we are going through town and it is 45 mph with multiple lights I have learned to take my time so I have time to make it through lights or slow down quickly enough to not have to make the brakes work overtime.

Looking at the squat on that truck definitely needed some airbags to carry the load. I also didn't realize the pin weights on the newer toy haulers had increased so much.

avvidclif
01-02-2018, 09:53 PM
Mine is kinda that way. The factory still hasn't published weights for it other than GVWR. It seems everything that is heavy is in front of the axles, generator, kitchen, water tank, holding tanks, all storage cabinets, bedroom. The only thing behind the axles is 2 Happi-Jack beds, 30 gal gas tank, and a 1.5 season screen curtain. Oh, and a lot of open space.

hoefler
01-03-2018, 07:27 AM
Toy Haulers by design, are pin heavy, to balance out when the garage is loaded.

jleavitt11
01-03-2018, 08:30 AM
It's a Toy Hauler.. Dont forget the 1600 lb RZR in the garage. Which brings me to my question. How much will a 1600 lb load in the gargae reduce the pin weght on a 44' Cyclone? In my 33' bumper pull it was almost 20%.

porthole
01-03-2018, 11:34 AM
It's a Toy Hauler.. Dont forget the 1600 lb RZR in the garage. Which brings me to my question. How much will a 1600 lb load in the gargae reduce the pin weght on a 44' Cyclone? In my 33' bumper pull it was almost 20%.


I have a pin weight scale and did that measurement.

Empty, bike, bike and cart. Bike and cart are just over 800 pounds each.

On our two axle Cyclone, with trailer leveled for each test it was right about 25%
200 pound reduction of pin weight for each 800 pounds in the garage.

avvidclif
01-03-2018, 11:55 AM
It would be hard to put a Razor in mine, because of weight not room. With an 800 lb Harley and no water I'm at 15,100 with a GVWR of 15,500.

Thunderbolt
01-26-2018, 08:32 PM
I'm in the process of shopping for a hitch system right now. Trailer is being built. I have been watching videos of systems being installed and was just thinking that the rail system would not hold up in an accident, boy was a right, after seeing this thread. I'm glad to hear that everyone is OK.

Do you think a Gooseneck mounted hitch would hold up better in an accident? My truck is a little older and I was even looking for an aftermarket puck system for it but it doesn't exist. I'm was even thinking a custom made puck system would be stronger then the rail mounted system. Has anyone seen how well a puck system holds up in an accident?

On another note. California (municipalities) are notorious for setting up their lights with short times on yellow to make more revenue, cities have been busted and sued before. You need to get the light timing info and then find out what it is required to be for the speed of the road that the accident happened on. The state might be responsible for the accident if insufficient time was available to stop or clear the intersection. I am moving from Cali to Florida right now and while in Florida I found that every light I come to people are running the reds. I make sure that the intersection is clear before going.

Good luck on your travels.

Get a copy of the UTCDM which will give you the national standards for traffic signal timing. If the timing was wrong, then the agency who timed the light would be the major factor.

BusManRG
01-27-2018, 02:57 AM
I saw this on the Internet a week or so ago and did not have time to watch the whole video. I took the time tonight to watch it from beginning to end ....fascinating. A few things I noted, maybe more of womans perspective? But Im surprised no one mentioned how well those tow truck drivers took care of that Cyclone. Babied it almost like it was there own. I wonder how much damage was done to the rig? That front cap had to absorb a lot of the impact and the level-up or at least the landing gear was having issues.

Sandy

Thunderbolt
01-27-2018, 06:52 AM
I saw this on the Internet a week or so ago and did not have time to watch the whole video. I took the time tonight to watch it from beginning to end ....fascinating. A few things I noted, maybe more of womans perspective? But Im surprised no one mentioned how well those tow truck drivers took care of that Cyclone. Babied it almost like it was there own. I wonder how much damage was done to the rig? That front cap had to absorb a lot of the impact and the level-up or at least the landing gear was having issues.

Sandy

One of the things that they missed, especially when one of the drivers said the wheels were locked up, and I did not see a cable for the break away switch, I knew the break away switch had the brakes locked. This would lead to the batteries going dead in a hurry especially if there was only one battery. They seemed knowledgeable about the RV and they did take care not to damage it. I am not sure as to damage, but a lot of force was placed on the kingpin box.