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carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 11:26 AM
Okay,
So Im getting the Landmark ready for a month stay in Key West and I lost my hydraulics. I hear only a click and no movement. I swapped out the auto reset breaker and no improvement . I have full DC to the switch and if I press and hold the switch in ither direction I get full DC to both sides of the switch ( I believe it's the switch ) So I'm wondering if it is the motor/ trombetta
I have replaced two windows, rewired the stereo ( via removing the fireplace),and installed new brakes. Slide no #&++&@! move.
Please Mr wizard make me slide go in and out.

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danemayer
12-30-2018, 11:56 AM
Turn off the breaker for the power converter and check voltage at the level up control panel.

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carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 12:00 PM
Okay,
So Im getting the Landmark ready for a month stay in Key West and I lost my hydraulics. I hear only a click and no movement. I swapped out the auto reset breaker and no improvement . I have full DC to the switch and if I press and hold the switch in ither direction I get full DC to both sides of the switch ( I believe it's the switch ) So I'm wondering if it is the motor/ trombetta
I have replaced two windows, rewired the stereo ( via removing the fireplace),and installed new brakes. Slide no #&++&@! move.
Please Mr wizard make me slide go in and out.

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkOk I think it is the motor on top of the hydraulics reservoir. Anybody out there have a part numbers.
I tapped it and it started working.
Great finding a motor and installing it by Wednesday morning. Over New year's.
Rolol.

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carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 12:03 PM
Turn off the breaker for the power converter and check voltage at the level up control panel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using TapatalkDane,
I'm using the Magnum ms2812 inverter charger . So just turned it off?

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carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 01:29 PM
Dane,
I'm using the Magnum ms2812 inverter charger . So just turned it off?

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkDane,
I turned it off and still have power to the hydraulics control panel.
I believe that the motor is gone
Part# 179327 is for the motor only. Big bucks!
I'm going to research doing a motor rebuild.
Thanks for your input Dane.
Guess I'm not going to Key West anytime soon
Happy New year to you and your family. Travel safe

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travelin2
12-30-2018, 01:49 PM
Are you sure itís not a loose/corroded connection? The ďtappingĒ method makes me wonder...


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danemayer
12-30-2018, 01:51 PM
The Dual Polarity Solenoid (Trombetta) supplies power to the motor. Don't hear too much about motor failures. But we do occasionally hear about Trombetta failures.

Check the power at the Trombetta before you decide it's the motor.

JohnDar
12-30-2018, 02:34 PM
Find an old ball point pen. Itís probably the same crappy Punjab manufacturer as the rear stabilizer motors. The spring in the pen may be your friend if you decide on a DIY rebuild.

The brush springs in the stabilizer motor were hair thin wire that corroded if two molecules of H2O got inside the casing. HDIK? Iíve rebuilt two of them.


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wdk450
12-30-2018, 05:04 PM
It sounds to me like you have either a loose wiring connection at the motor connector studs, or inside the motor, or maybe the brush/commutator connections.
Can you do the hex (allen) key bit in an electric drill emergency pump substitution? If the access hole isn't there through the wood in the battery compartment, can you drill one? Follow the instructions here: https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Level_Up__Towable__Owners_Manual.pdf See "Manual Override" on page 10.

Pulling up some images of the motor on Google images, I think with batteries disconnected, you could probably remove the motor and have a local electric motor repair shop (or automobile starter/alternator repair shop) disassemble the motor and repair it for a lot less than $800.

carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 08:33 PM
It sounds to me like you have either a loose wiring connection at the motor connector studs, or inside the motor, or maybe the brush/commutator connections.
Can you do the hex (allen) key bit in an electric drill emergency pump substitution? If the access hole isn't there through the wood in the battery compartment, can you drill one? Follow the instructions here: https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Level_Up__Towable__Owners_Manual.pdf See "Manual Override" on page 10.

Pulling up some images of the motor on Google images, I think with batteries disconnected, you could probably remove the motor and have a local electric motor repair shop (or automobile starter/alternator repair shop) disassemble the motor and repair it for a lot less than $800.Wdk,
My thoughts exactly!
All the connections are tight and I get DC on both sides of the motor with the switch pressed.

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wdk450
12-30-2018, 08:59 PM
Wdk,
My thoughts exactly!
All the connections are tight and I get DC on both sides of the motor with the switch pressed.

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I just wanted to clarify what you meant by the statement I bolded above. Are you saying that you read DC voltage to ground from BOTH terminals in the same switching situation (up only or down only)??? In either drive direction one motor terminal should be "hot" (+12 VDC to ground), and one motor terminal should be "cold" (0 VDC to ground). If BOTH terminals are "Hot" or "cold" at the same time, there is no voltage difference to drive the motor. Or did you mean one terminal is "Hot" on UP command and the other terminal is hot on DOWN command (normal)???

If BOTH terminals are "HOT" at the same time, this indicates a bad ground return path, which includes the relay contacts. Let me know if this is the case, as I may have a workaround.

carl.swoyer
12-30-2018, 09:15 PM
I just wanted to clarify what you meant by the statement I bolded above. Are you saying that you read DC voltage to ground from BOTH terminals in the same switching situation (up only or down only)??? In either drive direction one motor terminal should be "hot" (+12 VDC to ground), and one motor terminal should be "cold" (0 VDC to ground). If BOTH terminals are "Hot" or "cold" at the same time, there is no voltage difference to drive the motor. Or did you mean one terminal is "Hot" on UP command and the other terminal is hot on DOWN command (normal)???

If BOTH terminals are "HOT" at the same time, this indicates a bad ground return path, which includes the relay contacts. Let me know if this is the case, as I may have a workaround.Both sides of the motor have 12 but not at the same time. Press the button for up only one side is hot and the same for the down
I'm not sure about bolded.

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danemayer
12-30-2018, 09:22 PM
Verify the ground path.

wdk450
12-30-2018, 11:09 PM
Both sides of the motor have 12 but not at the same time. Press the button for up only one side is hot and the same for the down
I'm not sure about bolded.

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OK. Set the switching so that one motor terminal is hot (+12 vdc) and use a quick, intermittent jumper to ground to the other terminal to see if the motor starts to run with a good ground. If so, you have a ground path problem. If not, you have an internal motor problem.

Are you familiar with how a DPDT center off DC reversing switch is wired? 60219 If something is wrong from the negative side of the battery to the switch this could be causing your problems. The center terminals are the moving internal contacts of the switch that either connect with the top contacts or the bottom contacts. Side-by-side they are 2 switches that mechanically work together. The relay works the same as the reversing switch, just it is an electrically operated switch.

carl.swoyer
01-02-2019, 04:33 PM
Okay,
So Im getting the Landmark ready for a month stay in Key West and I lost my hydraulics. I hear only a click and no movement. I swapped out the auto reset breaker and no improvement . I have full DC to the switch and if I press and hold the switch in ither direction I get full DC to both sides of the switch ( I believe it's the switch ) So I'm wondering if it is the motor/ trombetta
I have replaced two windows, rewired the stereo ( via removing the fireplace),and installed new brakes. Slide no #&++&@! move.
Please Mr wizard make me slide go in and out.

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkUpdate
I removed the hydraulic motor and left it with a alternators repair shop.
Assessment follows,
They ordered new brushes and if they fit, $179.00 out the door.

If the don't fit ,
$470.00 for a new motor.

So ..... Looking outside the normal channels I'm expecting to save 5 to 8 hundred dollars.
Hopefully the 179 deal works.



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danemayer
01-02-2019, 04:50 PM
Update
I removed the hydraulic motor and left it with a alternators repair shop.
Assessment follows,
They ordered new brushes and if they fit, $179.00 out the door.

If the don't fit ,
$470.00 for a new motor.

So ..... Looking outside the normal channels I'm expecting to save 5 to 8 hundred dollars.
Hopefully the 179 deal works.



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Given how little the hydraulics motor actually runs, it seems unlikely that brushes would wear out. But maybe one broke.

The spring in the stabilizer motors referenced earlier rusts out - but given the location of that motor, it's probably catching a lot of water kicked up by the tires. I'd expect the hydraulics motor to be relatively dry.

Pictures of the old brushes might be interesting.

JohnDar
01-02-2019, 08:41 PM
In regards to road splash affecting the rear stabilizer motor, that may be a scenario...in some cases. Mine failed within a relatively short time and was not pulled much and not in any heavy rain. On a 3670, itís a fair distance from the tires to the stabilizer motor. It was just a poor design that would allow moisture to get inside. The brushes are located right near the point of entry and the site of the visible corrosion.


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carl.swoyer
01-12-2019, 03:29 PM
Update on my hydraulics rebuild.
I sent my hydraulics motor to an alternator repair shop. OEM part number is 179327.
He said my brushes were worn an actually bouncing around inside the housing. No pictures of the old but they were down to the wire. He removed the old stainless steel studs and installed new ones. They are now copper post. The first run slides moved in and out smoothly and quicker than before.
As far as the reinstall :
The factory used self tapping screws to hold the pump motor and reservoir assembly in place(from inside it was difficult to set the assembly in place and bolts in).
This wasn't a problem removing however putting it back required some adjustments. I used the same holes but threaded a 7/16 grade 8 bolt in from the outside with a jam nut.
I removed the propane tank to access the other side.
From there I set the assembly on to the two new studs and torqued the nuts down.
The repair shop installed the rebuild on the pump 180į out of the correct position so I reversed the wires on the trombetta. Removed the old hydraulic oil and added new . Everything is working flawlessly.
189.00 dollars for the rebuild verses 800 to 1200 dollars for a new motor. Total time maybe two hours.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/9cf0972c5a339beb611201b69f2931b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/8abd6a4f0fe0192f935b49bf4e337ce3.jpg

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wdk450
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
Congrats on a great repair,at an economy cost, for a problem reported for the first time that I can remember on this forum.

Its good to keep in mind the local small repair shops for fixes like your alternator/starter shop.

Did you see any original motor manufacturer markings on the motor? This might be what is needed for the next guy to get a new motor from an alternate supplier than Lippert, with their 4X markup. I know we have been able to get the rear landing gear motor for the non-Level-Up older 5th wheels because we found the Klauber C800 part number on them.

carl.swoyer
01-12-2019, 04:28 PM
It sounds to me like you have either a loose wiring connection at the motor connector studs, or inside the motor, or maybe the brush/commutator connections.
Can you do the hex (allen) key bit in an electric drill emergency pump substitution? If the access hole isn't there through the wood in the battery compartment, can you drill one? Follow the instructions here: https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Level_Up__Towable__Owners_Manual.pdf See "Manual Override" on page 10.

Pulling up some images of the motor on Google images, I think with batteries disconnected, you could probably remove the motor and have a local electric motor repair shop (or automobile starter/alternator repair shop) disassemble the motor and repair it for a lot less than $800.I opted for the rebuild and it worked.

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carl.swoyer
01-12-2019, 04:39 PM
Congrats on a great repair,at an economy cost, for a problem reported for the first time that I can remember on this forum.

Its good to keep in mind the local small repair shops for fixes like your alternator/starter shop.

Did you see any original motor manufacturer markings on the motor? This might be what is needed for the next guy to get a new motor from an alternate supplier than Lippert, with their 4X markup. I know we have been able to get the rear landing gear motor for the non-Level-Up older 5th wheels because we found the Klauber C800 part number on them.The alternator shop quoted me $479.00 for the exact same motor new OEM. I had it in my head I wasn't falling to the high overpriced motor.

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wdk450
01-12-2019, 05:49 PM
I just did some more internet searching, and found some alternate part numbers on this site (See: Description): https://www.rvupgradestore.com/167576-Hydraulic-Bi-Rotational-Pump-Motor-p/045-167576.htm

Unfortunately, searching those part numbers on the web didn't seem to get me anywhere.

A bunch of the assemblies and similar motors here: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1312.R1.TR11.TRC2.A0.H1.Xrv .TRS1&_nkw=RV+hydraulic+pump+motor&_sacat=0

but the motor shaft ends didn't seem to match.

carl.swoyer
01-13-2019, 01:53 PM
The alternator shop quoted me $479.00 for the exact same motor new OEM. I had it in my head I wasn't falling to the high overpriced motor.

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkForgot to mention that the reservoir has labels with part #s and the studs are numbered 1&2 .
I didn't see the numbers until after the reinstall. I apologise for not documenting the process with more visual aid.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/cbbcd1a3348b0295c9f82dfd5f4a39c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/65cbf66d840167ea1f05694de1e302b4.jpg

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